Question:
My friend had RNY in October '03 and I think she is self-sabotaging.
She has done very well, losing 98 lb in the first 8 mo or so. She still wants to lose 20-30 and ackowledges that if she would take up exercise, she might lose more. She is also trying to get a tummy tuck approved by insurance. What I notice is that she eats literally all day long. (We work together; she sits right behind me.) She starts with half a banana, then progresses to sunflower seeds (about 1/2 an individual sized pack) then eats two packs of those individual sized breadstick crackers and cheese. This is all before 10 AM. Sometimes she starts the peanut M&Ms before lunch too. Lunch is usually leftovers from home, and good stuff from what I can see .. salmon, beef roast or the like. Then in the afternoon, she repeats the snacks from the morning .. the rest of the seeds, another pack of crackers, and peanut M&Ms. I don't see what she has for supper; I assume it's the same as her lunches, but I also don't see if she snacks at night like she does during the day. I added it up on FitDay once .. the woman is getting over 800 cal and 30 g fat *just in her snacks*! Granted, I don't know much about RNY nutritional needs or capacity, since I have a Band. If she had a Band, I'd say she needs a fill. But common sense tells me that she is at risk of regain if she keeps on like this. Does anyone have any advice how to approach her? Knowing her, likely she'll just assume I'm "hating" on her. She used me as a "guinea pig" for surgery, and I can't help but feel kind of responsible for her, even I know I'm not. She's grown. I just hate to see her sabotage her success this way. Advice? — Jeanie (posted on April 5, 2005)
April 5, 2005
I've seen someone doing something similar and believe me, she did NOT
appreciate me trying to "help" her. I tried to put myself back in
the shoes I was wearing pre-op and I know I didn't appreciate someone
trying to help me out. We can come to this site and to support groups and
to friends for help and encouragement but we have to take that first step
on our own. Personally, I would not appreciate having someone approach me
about my eating habits. I consider that my own business and know that I'm
fully responsible for what I put in my mouth and for how much or how little
exercise I choose to get. And bottom line, it is a personal choice. You are
not responsible for her, even if she did use you as a "guinea
pig" for her surgery. You can't fix her head for her.............just
plan to be there in a helpful, supportive, non-judgemental role if and when
she does come to you.
— scbabe
April 5, 2005
I have had friends try and help me out and I admit, I have gotten a bit mad
at them (temporarily) b/c they don't know what nutrition I have been given
by my nutrition. KWIM? (I am not saying what she is eating is what I would
personally eat, but I do snack and sometimes I eat a candy or two to wane
off the LARGER cravings that I have.) Anyways, maybe if you really want to
help see if there is a support meeting, eating habits forum, exercise
program or something local to work that the two of your could do together?
One of my friends offered to take me to a class about identifying and
dealing with eating habits. Once I am far enough out (we are supposed to be
1 year out but I got permission to take the class at 8 months out), I
appreciated the concern and thanked her for offering to take me to the
class. I can't wait to start it! :-)
— MagickalMom
April 5, 2005
The fat calories is not so good but 800 cals is pretty good. I eat anywhere
from 800 to 1100 a day and am still loosing at almost 2 years out. I snack
all day long. I have to say most of it is beef jerky or yogurt or cheese.
My cholestrol is dropping so I haven't been really watching my fats but
then again I don't eat fried foods anymore so that probably evens out. the
only thing I see wrong with your friends habits is the choices of snacks. I
would be passing out and not feeling well if I didn't eat all the time.
Everyone is different.
— jenafwife
April 5, 2005
Original poster here .. thanks for the food for thought. (No pun
intended.) I did not realize that grazing is acceptable or necessary for
some RNY patients. I have another coworker who is out 1 year from her RNY
surgery and have been discussing the situation with her (she is also very
concerned.) We did mention the grazing to our friend once, and she said
she wasn't always hungry, just "had to have something in her mouth all
the time". That is what really raised the red flag for me. Just
wanted to clarify that, since I forgot it in my original post.
— Jeanie
April 5, 2005
I am 3 years post op RNY and I am a hopeless grazer, mostly in the evenings
at home after I get home and eat dinner, I can snack constantly til
bedtime. Like you said her meals look sensible, so are mine, what keeps
you from losing or may lead to regain is eating the wrong things. I'm a
carb addict. I never dumped like some RNYers on sugars, so I have to rely
on good old fashioned willpower to stay away from bad snacks and sometimes
I fail miserably. SOme of the snacks you mentioned are not good ones,
crackers, M&Ms. Cheese, sunflower seeds OK. Snacks that are high in
protein are always favorable but you have to watch fat content on some like
peanuts. I wish I knew why I am such a big snacker now, much more than
before surgery. Maybe I am mourning the big meals I use to have. I dont
know. Only you can be the judge on whether your coworker is approachable.
Maybe you could approach her from the angle of wanting to know more about
the differences between your type of surgery and hers. Comparing notes
with her on what your strategies are, the diet you were told to follow,
snacking guidelines etc. She might feel more comfortable exchanging ideas
if you do not approach it from the angle of thinking she isn't doing the
right thing.
— SARose61
April 5, 2005
Am I the only one that feels it really isn't any of the OP's business? You
have gone so far as to secretly document her eating on fitday?!?!!?!?! I
can understand a concerned friend, but this is more like food policing. If
you truly are concerned for your friend, ask how she is doing on the
remaining lost pounds? Ask, as a friend, how she documents her progress.
Confronting someone by saying "Hey, I've been tracking your eating and
I think you eat too much." is a bit harsh. ~~Rebecca
— RebeccaP
April 5, 2005
Miss Jeanne,
First off it really is not any of your business whether your friend is
grazing or over eating. It is beyond my comprehension that you are tracking
what she is eating and looking up the calorie intake.
It could be that she eats nothing when she gets home, so her calorie intake
is what you see at work.
But regardless, you are NOT responsible for her - everyone is responsible
for their own behavior.
— Cindy P.
April 5, 2005
OP here .. Thank you for all the thoughtful replies. My friend and I are
still debating how, and even whether, to broach this subject with our
co-worker. There have been some great suggestions that I'm checking into.
I'm tempted not to speak on the condescending responses or those that
border on hostility, but I will say this. We all care differently. I find
it difficult to stand by and watch a loved one practicing any
self-destructive behavior without trying to intervene. The first thing I
do is to try and find out as much as possible about the behavior. I do not
eat cheese crackers or sunflower seeds, so I do not automatically know
their nutritional value. FitDay is my tool of choice to find out. I
certainly would not want to approach my friend, should I choose to, with
nothing but assumptions and conjecture about what she is eating. I guess
that can be seen as "food policing"; however, my motivation was
to get the facts. I know how I would take it if anyone were to broach the
subject of my eating habits with me .. I would try to see the value of it,
but it would most certainly make me mad, at least at first. That is why I
brought the issue HERE first, rather than to my friend, to use this body of
contributors as a sounding board. I knew there were some who would assign
me the worst motives. There always are. :) Thanks again to those who
helped.
— Jeanie
April 5, 2005
I think the reason she is eating all day, is because she is starting her
day with carbs, and carbs do no fill you up or stay with you. But, as some
of the others think, it is her business not yours, I think that you are
trying to be a supportive friend, and what you track on fitday is your
business. You may want to ask her about the protein, carbs and fat
contents and tell her that you have another friend that is considering WLS
and you were just curious. It is sorta a fib, but, most WLS people love to
be able to help someone else, that way you could say, I have been kinda
watching what you eat to get idea's to help this person, and mention that
you thought that more protein and low fat foods would be eaten. If she
relizes that she is eating wrong, she may go back to the rules for the
pouch, if she doesn't relize it, you have given it a shot.
— cindy
April 5, 2005
Jeanie, my response to yours was in no way condescending. What I am
pointing out is that, not just I, but quite a few people would view your
actions in a VERY negative manner. You are tracking a co-workers
food/caloric intake, you are discussing this food intake with other
co-workers, and bringing your co-workers specific food intake to a public
message board. If I were your co-worker, I would not only NOT appreciate
your behavior, but do everything I could to avoid you in the future.
Monitoring someone elses diet progress without their permission/concent is
hurtful. Do you think she is reading this now? Would you do the same to
an obese person that had not had WLS? Why is it different?
— RebeccaP
April 5, 2005
Hi Jeannie
Take care of yourself...I would not appreciate your observations and I
certainly wouldnt appreciate your discussion with coworkers. Sounds harsh,
but I think all of us codependents are learning to take care of
ourselves..life is just too short. Best wishes to you and take care
— debmi
April 5, 2005
WOW! I'm glad I don't work with you. This is the very reason I only told
one co-worker! The unmitigated gall of you to actually keep track of what
she eats! Get a life and start worrying about what YOU eat. MAN! Women
co-workers are the WORST!
— SJP
April 5, 2005
I see what's going on here. She had surgery in Oct and you had surgery in
July. Yet you both have lost about the same amount of weight. Wishing you
would have had the RNY instead of Band?
— SJP
April 5, 2005
Hello??? 800 calories a day??? How many normal people eat that. She is a
WLS patient. A normal person who is already thin would lose weight at that
caloric intake a day!!! I think you are too nosy and should worry about
yourself. Before surgery I probably ate over 4000 calories a day, when you
add up all the fast food I ate. 800 calories a day is way below normal for
the average person and keep in mind an RNY patient malabsorbs fat and
calories so I would say she is doing fine!!!
P.S. If you were my coworker (so called friend) and I found out about your
secret monitoring of my food I think I might B***h slap you!
If you were a real friend with concerns you would discuss it with the
person you were concerned with, not ask a public forum.
Joy
Lap RNY 8/31/04
391/275/175
— gerardlovesjoy
April 5, 2005
Hello Jeanie,
I think its nice that you would care about your friend. I am almost two
years out from surgery and w/ a Rny its possible she is doing okay. I eat
all day long bites here and there every hour if you think there is a
problem Please talk to her maybe she doesnt know
Dionna
— Dionna_Dupuis
April 5, 2005
I see the concern for her in your post. I'm sure part of it is just
curiosity about her habits, in comparison to yours. The interesting part
of being a post-op RNY is that our experiences are all so very different.
For your friend, it could be that the way she eats will continue to work
for her. It may also be that at some point, she will begin to regain, and
will have to stop and check over her diet and see what needs to be changed.
I'm 19 months post-op and recently had to do just that. Honestly, up
until about a month ago, I could pretty much eat whatever I wanted, and saw
no regain. Suddenly, about 3 weeks ago, I gained 7-8 pounds, and decided I
had better check things out for myself, and adjust what I was eating. I
started using fitday myself, and it has been a great tool. I certainly
didn't want this 7-pound gain to turn into 10, 15, 20 and beyond like it
did when I was a pre-op. I had made up my mind a long time ago that I
would never again ignore weight gain. Since starting my tracking, I have
lost 4 of the 8 pounds. But to tell you the truth, if this had not
happened to me, I would have seen no reason to adjust my eating habits, and
admittedly, many of the things I was eating were not the best or healthiest
choices. But we all live and learn, and we all have to make decisions
about our level of commitment to keeping the weight off. I don't know that
I would approach her at all, or if so, just in a general way, such as
"what do you do to help keep from regaining weight?" I have
another friend who was 2 years out last January, and that is when she
started to have issues with regain. Until that point, as I mentioned
before, she was able to eat just about anything she wanted without worry.
Perhaps your friend will see that same issue crop up when she reaches 2
years in a few months.
— Carlita
April 6, 2005
Thanks, y'all. There have been some very helpful responses here and over
email, and I appreciate them very much. Someone suggested my friend have
her labs checked, to rule out deficiencies (something she has not done yet)
so I think I will suggest that she do that at her next TT appointment, this
Friday. It's a good starting point, and like one poster said, at least I
will have done *something* without risking alienating her. :)
— Jeanie
April 6, 2005
I am so dissapointed in some of the hostile responses here. I saw a couple
of people expressing shock at the OP's mention of 800 calories. If you
re-read the post, you will see that she said that the SNACKS added up to
over 800 calories a day, not counting MEALS.
I understand her concern. I have a good friend who had RNY a couple of
years before I did, and I've noticed her self-sabotaging with food too. I
have the same concerns as the OP for my friend, and was glad to see this
question posted. I too have wondered whether I should approach her, and
have discussed it with mutual friends. We are all worried about her
emotional and physical health - not just being nosy.
I wish people would be kinder to each other.
— Jenny B.
April 6, 2005
i am probably going to get blasted, but... here goes... i am 14 months
out... lost over 150 lbs, and am STARVING all the time. i did the cottage
cheese test, and had to stop at 16 oz. (i thought i was going to gain from
all that). i have eaten things i should not have, and only wish i had a
"buddy" to keep me in line. this "tool" is not easy for
me. i can eat anything and everything. i do know what to avoid, and try to
supplement my hunger with an EAS bar or shake. if i ate what that co-worker
did, i'd gain all my weight back! (here goes)...... I SAY TALK TO HER AS
FAST AS YOU CAN! NEXT TIME YOU TURN AROUND, SHE MIGHT BE SWALLOWING
DING-DONGS AND TWINKIES WITH THE WRAPPER STILL ON!!!thanks to all the
posters for their honesty.....always...
patricia
— riotgirlp
April 6, 2005
I didn't smell any judgment in your original question, just caring. Band,
RNY, DS--who cares? If she has done well and now is threatening that,
could be dozens of reasons why. She may not know that grazing absolutely
defeats the purpose of a small pouch. Seeds are so nothing that she might
not count them as anything. I eat them, but count them as one of my small
meals. It's almost as if she either didn't have a strong enough set of
intructions or can't SEE it. I sit here next to my dh, who is one year
behind me in time. He likes to buy the Costco bag of pretzels (think dog
food bag size! lol). He'd park that bag in here and every 15 min or so,
reach down and grab a handful of them. I have nothing against pretzels NOW
AND THEN, or a few with a meal. But he was putting down a 6# bag in about
24 hrs. I mean, come on, we're 10+ years out here, how do *I* tell *HIM*
to stop that right now? I can't be his food police. But after a few days, I
finally said, "Do you know you are grazing those? Wouldja do me a
favor and put them in the kitchen and then just get a cereal sized bowl at
a time?" He was surprised and didn't know he was doing it and
immediately put the bag in the kitchen and then it lasted more like 2
weeks! Interesting, no? I'm not a grazer myself (volume here), but he
really did not know he was doing it! And in this case, he didn't mind at
all. I didn't say NO MORE PRETZELS or any crazy talk, just please adjust
this one thing. And it worked. He also does The Frown if I wander toward
sugar things. He wouldn't mind if I put back on another 10#, but he knows
how miserable life would be with me! LOL! So, accountability is a HUGE
part of what keeps us successful this far post-op. I'm not sure how you
can discuss this with her without a huge preface of, "I'm not watching
you, not criticing, not judging, just caring......" Maybe you can
tell her you'd want her to grab you by the nape of the neck if she sees you
do crazy stuff, too, please?
— vitalady
April 7, 2005
I am also one who eats several times a day, small amounts and do not
consider it grazing. If i sat here with a dog food sized package of
pretzels on my desk and ate all day, like Michelle's hubby, well, thats
definitely grazing! But eating healthy meals and snacking on cheese and
crackers,fruit and nuts sounds fine to me. Now the peanut M&Ms, I'd
watch that! What you may want to do as her friend is to start exercising
with her..do you have a gym at work? Or walk around the block with her, or
go to a gym after work. You may say to her, hey friend, I have to lose
weight too or maintain my loss and I know you want to lose 20 more, so lets
work out together. tell her it would be a favor to you if she helped you
out...turn this around so that you are supportive of her without judging
her for eating M&Ms, none of us would like that, even from good
friends.
— Cindy R.
April 7, 2005
I think everyone walks their own path with WLS. By this time of life,
we've ALL experienced too much monitoring of our behavior by supposed
"FRIENDS". If you derive pleasure from the monitoring, then
continue to do so for your own "pleasure". However, unless she
wants YOUR opinion I truly believe you should stay OFF the subject. You
already KNOW her reaction, why are you asking?
— gailcatss
April 7, 2005
I just want to say, that there is a big difference between someone's
husband or spouse, even CLOSE friend helping them by pointing out the
grazing or something, then it is for a co-worker to point this out. You
really have no right to be playing diet police to her. As you said, you
have no idea what she eats at night or for dinner. If she asks you to help
that's one thing, but she hasn't and you know she will not like it if you
say something. My opinion is... keep an eye on your own diet, and MYOB!
— KellyJeanB
April 8, 2005
OP here. I find it so interesting to see the varied responses to this
question, and I took value from the majority of the responses, whether
positive and negative. Everybody will react to a situation like this
depending on their own mindset, experience and values. I appreciate those
of you who recognized what I was trying to communicate and lent support and
great suggestions. Obviously this is a situation which requires sensitive
handling, and I think I am not alone in trying to determine how best to
deal with it.
— Jeanie
April 11, 2005
I think your comments show that you care. All of the jealousy/what ifs
comments are useless really. You got the procedure you wanted and she did
the same. I personally have chosen the DS because of the track record. Its
something we do for ourselves.
I hope she doesn't sabotage herself.
— T S.
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