Question:
Interesting Dilemma with Men's Perceptions

I'm a grown woman well into adulthood, but nevertheless......PREOP: A good friend of mine has a son around my age. I am close with her whole family and we've all had a lot of fun together. After I made the decision to have WLS, it wasn't long before I started to have feelings for the son. But I shelved them, thinking "oh, he couldn't possibly be attracted to me, I'm way too fat". He never made any indication whatsoever that he was interested in me as anything other than a good friend. I thought that only once I had the WLS could I seriously consider pursuing a relationship with him. POSTOP: Son compliments me frequently as I lose weight, is very nice and warm and friendly, but does not exactly make it obvious that he's interested. I'm also aware of the delicate line to be crossed--this is not just some guy, this is the son of a friend of mine. So I thought I would wait (big mistake) to get some sort of "green light" from Mom that it was OK for me (or him) to consider exploring this possibility. The glorious day came when I mentioned I wanted to see a particular movie, he said "I'll go with you" and asked if after the movie we grab some dinner and then go to a party at a friend's house. I was so excited, but seemed to get the vibe from Mom that she wasn't too happy with the idea. At this point I had lost a chunk of weight, but was still quite heavy. That insecure internal dialogue kept playing over and over. But I told myself to keep an open mind and see what happens. We had a great time together until dinner, when he told me that one night he and a bunch of friends went out after work and he and this girl he worked with proceeded to make out with him. I thought "OK, so he made out with this girl; so what?" He kept talking about her, then he said "you might see her tonight. I asked her to come to the party we're going to and to bring some friends". I got the impression that he was telling me about this girl like you would speak to a good friend about a girl you were interested in. I also thought that if this girl showed up, I would feel uncomfortable knowing that he and she had had a major face-sucking extravaganza the week before. So I said to him "gee, [son], are you interested this girl? If you'd rather I didn't go with you to the party, that's OK" (spoken like a true Fat Girl). He looked wounded and said "No! I asked YOU!" I said OK and off we went to the party. Girl never showed up. He never made a move and neither did I. But I still thought "OK. Maybe once I lose more weight....." Meanwhile, still no hint from Mom. One month after our date, I hear from Mom that someone is crazy about him (not the make-out girl, BTW). I ask Mom if he is interested in her and she says "yeah!" The kicker? This girl is MO. Several months later, AFTER they decide to move in together, Mom tells me "you know, I was really saying a prayer for you and [son] before he met J. He was interested in you for a long time, but he didn't think you were interested in him." NOW she tells me. If anybody is STILL READING at this point...LOL.....does anyone have any insight into how to forgive yourself for having preconceived notions about yourself being fat vs. being thin and making misguided assumptions? I lost out on a good guy because I let my fat get the best of me. It's also a cautionary tale---whatever your situation is, remember that the issues that plagued you when you were fat will still continue to plague you when you lose weight. It's true that this isn't brain surgery! I feel like someone "popped my balloon". Any insights for this "teenager"? :o) (Yes, I AM in therapy!!)    — Joyce C. (posted on December 2, 2003)

December 2, 2003
WOW! What a story! Don't beat yourself up over this. If this man had been really interested, you would be together. There are so many good men out there! It took me a long time to learn this. Continue to make yourself available and look around, see what is out there. You have so many opportunities! Keep all your options open, it's part of the fun. As for his mom, continue to be friends with her. Get her imput on things and it may make a difference. Good Luck! and have fun dating!
   — Danna S.

December 2, 2003
I'm sorry that you feel like you lost out on something, but I gotta point out that half of the responsibility in getting a relationship going lies with each person. If he were interested in you, he was in the place to do something about it. You shouldn't take responsibility for his failure to act. Don't think of this as you lost out on a great guy. Think of it as this guy lost out on a great girl. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be between the two of you. But, undoubtedly, something else is. Hang in there.
   — Vespa R.

December 2, 2003
All u can do is take a chance. Life is too short to allow yourself to not take a chance and ask. I still have a problem with noticing when men are hitting on me. But if i want something.. I go for it. The worst that can happen is they can say no! Sometimes fat isn't the problem it is our self-esteem and we settle for less than we deserve. I wish you luck in the future. But the mother should have dropped some hint. And sucking face with another chick didn't exactly give u the right impression. I would have probably felt the same way. If he was truly for u, he would have considered your feelings. Just my two cints.
   — keishax

December 2, 2003
I'm a believer in fate. If it's meant to be, nothing that happens in the meantime will keep it from working. But anyway, I agree with the others. There are too many men out there to worry about one. You seem like you have it all together now. Your "fat" mentality will subside and you'll have them beating down your door!! Lots of luck.
   — lharbison

December 2, 2003
Joyce: I totally understand your feelings. I am still pre-op, but scheduling for January. I've been chubby, heavy and fat my whole life. I have avoided any involvement with men because I felt (and feel) that I'm not worthy of their attention and I don't trust them to be honest. Needless to say, I will need LOTS of therapy as I lose weight. I feel it is all part of the process and the journey and I hope that I will be strong enough to be a success story. Take care and keep up the therapy. I guess the only good news is that now you know that someone could be interested in you even before you lose all the weight, you might be more open to the vibes from someone new. Give yourself a chance!
   — NewJoolz

December 2, 2003
Well said. I am a guy, over 400 pounds and last March I met a woman who I feel is THE one. She was willing to accept me at my weight then and is super supportive of my quest for WLS. We got intimate and it was rather obvious that my feelings for her are mutual. I have so long been saying I will wait for my Lady and she just kind of fell into my lap. I made some fundemental changes in my thinking before I met her and I think that made me more receptive to be more accepting of someone actually wanting to be with me. I don't think, prior to this year, that I would have accepted that as an option for me. I say, seize the moment when you can. If he didn't want to be with you, he would let you know. Remember, it isn't a reflection on you if he chooses someone else. But if you don't try, or take a chance, you won't have the opportunity to be loved by the one who is right for you. Good luck
   — John O.

December 2, 2003
Joyce you look FABULOUS! And the good part is that your physical appearance will only improve over time like a fine wine that will be sought out by true connoisseurs. You'll get more attention than you ever expected because you'll have both the inner and outer beauty. I've met more genuinely warm and compassionate obese people than skinny ones. From what it sounds like you are one of the warm and compassionate ones and soon you'll have it all. Couple a good personality with physical attractiveness and all I can say is - WOW! <p> Anyways you have many wonderful years and wonderful relationships yet to come. So no need to worry about the few drops of milk that spill from your full glass. Also the guy doesn't sound all that great - C'mon he let you slip away after initiating a date. Sort of like quiting a job after he just started. You can and will do much better in the years to come! <p> Take Care, Be Well, Be Happy!
   — John T.

December 2, 2003
Joyce, I know EXACTLY how you feel!! Same thing happened to me. I met a guy about 4 years ago and was gaga for him. However, he was BEAUTIFUL (way out of my league at 230 pounds when he weighed 170!!) and I didn't pursue it, even after getting all the signs that he was interested. He moved 1000 miles away and met someone else who I assume he will marry soon. I saw him about 1 1/2 years ago (after WLS and 70 pounds lost) and he admitted to me that he has ALWAYS been attracted to me!! However, I waited too long and now he's with someone else. I've come to realize that waiting was the WRONG thing to do. You will always regret what you didn't do because you never know what might have been.
   — Patty H.

December 2, 2003
Hi Joyce- I think your friend (his mother) might have felt awkward and said the "interested in you" comment because......? Did she feel bad for you? I'm sure she must have been aware of your feelings for him on some level. Also, that was her opinion of it, maybe not his also? I think your first intuition was right, that he is a "good friend", because why would he tell you about another girl he made out with? Maybe he didn't consider it a romantic date, but 2 friends enjoying a movie, dinner and party together. I also think in his case, it had nothing to do with anyone's size or weight. I think you should put him in the "maybe someday" category and keep yourself open to other romantic possibilities. You look great in your pic, so I'm sure that's not a problem :o) Good Luck, Mea :o)
   — Mea A.

December 2, 2003
I truly beleive that everything happens for a reason. This relationship did not work out in your favor because that special relationship is waiting for you. Of course, its hard to see this until the "right" one comes along...but when that happens....you will be SOOOOOOOO glad this did not work out!! Many Blessings! ~~Kimberly~~
   — MissKimberly

December 2, 2003
Wow! Bummer. I remember being interested in a guy in highschool for the longest time, but we were just friends. I found out later he had the biggest crush on me all year. That was a loooong time ago, but I remember the feeling, and the regret. Anyway, just wanted to say that he's not lost yet. Who's to say these two won't break up? Maybe it will still work out. Good luck.
   — mom2jtx3

December 2, 2003
Joyce, my DH explains regrets this way: If you made the best decision you could, based on the information you had AT THE TIME, then you should have no regrets. Information you get later could not possibly have factored into your actions. (Of course, he's a die-hard optimist!) But this outlook has helped me countless times. The signs you were getting from the son and the mother were less than ecouraging .. you can't blame yourself for not picking up vibes they weren't sending. Sounds like you have learned not to under-value yourself .. maybe that was the point of the whole exercise. :) Also, I wanted to comment to the other posters. Y'all rock. What great responses and encouragement.
   — Jeanie

December 3, 2003
Joyce, I love your story and your courage to share it. You have provided priceless advice for everyone! I hope I can add to your story by being an example: I am 4'11" and before surgery I weighed 252...My husband is 6'1" and a handsome, skinny marathon runner. GO FIGURE. After being together for almost 13 years, my internal dialogue STILL questions why he is with me sometimes. Hopefully your experience will help you to be more confident in the future. I peaked at your profile and you are BEAUTIFUL! You're also very bright, so some man is gonna find you irresistable, I am sure of it! :)
   — Louise D.

December 3, 2003
I agree with all the posters, I believe in fate and if it is meant to be, it will be. I also wanted to say, some posters asked why he mentioned another woman if he was interested in you, well...according to my husband (who did this countless times before we started dating and were just "friends"), men tell you about other women to show you that they are wanted. If they tell you about another woman it is to tell you, "hey, I'm attractive to ther people, what do you think?" It's a stupid preening thing (sorry guys) and it took me forever to teach my husband that girlfriends, fiancees and especially wives don't like hearing about past conquests. In either case, I think the forgiveness will come with time. I think things happen for a reason, but if you can't get over it, try mentioning it to him in a casual way, just to get it out there. For example: "You know, I used to have the BIGGEST thing for you, isn't that funny?" If he seems interested, then you continue with why nothing happened. If he laughs and acts awkward, then you brush it off as a long ago obsession that has long ago passed. Good luck!
   — Erinn D.

December 3, 2003
HEY, EVERYONE,--original poster here. Wow, I absolutely cannot believe the fantabulous insight and support I've gotten here in these responses!! You see, I didn't have NORMAL adolescent angst, just FAT adolescent angst. I guess I have to learn all this stuff now. I'm so grateful, everyone. Thanks so much!! [Ummmm, CHRIS C? Will you come to the prom with me? :O)
   — Joyce C.

December 3, 2003
John Tucker and John Ott? How about the xmas party and the junior cotillion? ;O) Thank you, kind gentlemen.
   — Joyce C.

December 4, 2003
Xmas party? I didn't know there was a Xmas party. I wouldn't qualify for a Junior thing... I'm an old fart at 36. <p> I just wanted to make a few more comments on the topic. Erinn is on the money.. guys and some women talk about other potential suitors to instill a competitive challenge in the other sex. This doesn't happen just in romance but also in other areas of life, e.g., on the job at the intial interview or when asking for a raise - "You know there this other company who had offer me this amount", when selling a car - "I'll try to hold this model for you but I have this lady who is coming in to look at it" etc... It's called puffery and based on some very basic psychological principles: 1) We want what other's want and we don't have, 2) We credit the opinions of others more than our own, 3) "We pursue that which retreats from us" - General Tsu Sun (sp), 4) We want to win. Fashion and advertisement are based on all this by the use of celebrities and fabricated shortages... they tell us what we have is not good enough, that other people know what it is to be cool, and that we want to have their success. The third one is very insightful about human nature and general cause and effect... pursuit is a chase which requires the object to move away from the pursuer - no movement away, no pursuit. The chase instills number 4 a desire to win - to catch. The pursuee is the one in the power position in the psychological arena because they determine when and if the pursuer will win. <p> So lets apply these principle to your situation adding one other factor - male libido - men in general want sex constantly - Any port in the storm as the saying goes. If we are with a woman who minimally appeals to us then we'll work every angle we can to have sex with her and because we don't have the stellar good looks of Brad Pitt, we work the psychological angle to instill desire for us. We tell them about some other woman who finds us desireable to establish #1 - wanting what others want (the other woman), which then feeds into #2 - there has to be something desireable about him, you then try to figure it out (even if subconsciously) and are then focused on the positive. But hey we might not really be available and might not really want you - so you think (because we are backing off and this makes you the pursuer now giving us power over the situation - unless of course you have no interest in us). Then finally once you are in the pursuit mode you want to win. <p> Just my input on this :-) <p> Take Care, Be Well, Be Happy!
   — John T.

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