RE: carbs...are you "normal" I say yes...and NO! I'll explain......
I will ask you this.......are you "normal" when it comes to your body's processing/response to "refined" carbs? (cake,cookies,candy) or from "starchy" foods? (bread, pasta, rice)
How about the amount of total carbs? When I looked up on line carb calculators.......they average from 250-350 per day! (this was for a woman 30, 5' 6", 150lbs...light to moderate activity) Before or after WLS did you fall into this "norm?" How about now.....can you do 300 carbs per day and still lose...or maintain?
You see I feel for MOST of us MO or formerly MO people We have NOT and may NEVER fall into these "norms" If before WLS you processed carbs normally...ate 2500 cals (1200 from carbs) How did you become MO? There are a few who did it on fat and prot (too many cals) I'm willing to bet "dollars to donuts" (Mmm!) MOST of us were a combo of too many cals....too many refined/starchy carbs. And thay is why we needed WLS. Because we are NOT "normal"
But you see.......We ARE "normal" in the world of the MO! It would be unusual to find a MO person who's body processes refined carbs (in particular) like a "normie" does. There is a well known correlation between MO and insulin resistance /diabetes. But which came first.....obesity cause insulin resistance in most people.....insulin resistance cause most people to gain weight! (chicken or egg) Either way our ability to process carbs is affected. We all know A "genetically/naturally thin person......who can eat 300-500 carbs and stay "lean" This is NOT the "norm" for most of us!
If you contend you eat like a "normal" person does......please post here and explain......do you eat 2000-3000 cals per day? (not from fat....like DSer's) Do you do 200-400 carbs per day? (this does not apply to "hardcore" athletes like MacMadame....she's a triathlete!) If you do........you DO NOT fall in the "norms" for WLS or MO people! If you are eating 1200-1500 cals and < 130 carbs this is well below the "norms" and you still fall into the"norms" for WLS patients!
BTW.... the new "RDA" for carbs is 130 for women, 150 for men......getting closer to what we are doing! I wonder why the RDA numbers on carbs/cals keep going down? (probably due to the epidemic of obesity and diabetes especially in children!) 12 years ago my "diabetes nutritionist" said to do "lower" carb which was 150-170!.....seriously? That way of thinking is changing. Maybe the medical Establishment will get off the low fat bull**** and push something that works!
bottom line is.....will we need to do low to moderate carb for life? For MOST of us.....YES! Will most of your carbs need to be from "healthy" carbs? YES! (this will differ from person to person....some can "do" whole grains etc....others cannot!) So for the MAJORITY of WLS people WE WILL need to be "mindful" of "unhealthy" carbs........for "us" that is the "norm" It sucks to be us sometimes! ........stepping down of the soap box now
JIMBO... 350lbs! lost!..... TRIPLE CENTURY CLUB!! HELL ...YEAH!
MY VSG......KICKS ASS! 
I am 6' 2" 
It was a combination of high, empty calories (read serious liquor consumption) along with the snacks, (mostly high-carb stuff) and the late-night "habitual" eating that pushed me up to 425 lbs. a few months ago. Going cold-turkey off of booze a month prior to surgery certainly helped jump-start my current weight loss. I'm just a believer that cutting down on everything - carbs, calories, fats, sugars, (but not, god forbid, our wonderful protein) is the best way for me to manage my current and long-term nutrition in a healthy fashion. The only "Magic Bullet" in weight loss, I think, is that machine I bought but never use.
For me the formula is simple: careful, considered and honest measurement of intake and honest, hard, monitored management of output = weight loss/weight management. That's my 65-year-old opinion. Pop-Pop
And, I truly believe you are correct!
"Sleeve Santa Sleeve!"
HW: 309 ~ PreOpW: 306 ~ SW: 293 ~ CW: 184
Damn...... I hate it when reality hits......
In general.....I have to say (politically correct) that were all different and we must all find our own way. See around here you always have to put the disclaimer in because people get tweaked.
If you can eat "normal" during or after WL and maintain your weight.........Ding Ding Ding !!!!!
You won !!!!! Congratulations!!!!!! You win !!!! Enjoy that pasta, bread, cake, cookies and rice !!!!!
There is one person on this board always trying to make a point that she can eat anything......That's cool! She is a "Winner" (wasn't meant to be a Charlie Sheen joke) The problem is she is trying to convince everyone that her way could be the way of others. Again.... cool.....but it's not the reality for most of us from what we see on this forum. Oh, and this person ends her eat anything rant with.....by the way....I'm a mountain climber.......
Maintenance is where you need to discover your base line and tolerances for holding and maintaining a weight range. From the sampling in the maintenance group..... most have to follow a low/lower carb diet similar to the WL phase. Sorry for the bad news.... reality sucks sometimes.
The majority of times when you read the "Help" posts..... I gained weight !!!! Guess what their eating??
So to all you "Winners" out there Congrats!....... the rest of us have a restrictive reality which isn't so bad in the big picture! Anyone in maintenance can eat anything with selective control, but must learn the art of adjusting.
Jim's post just made it real clear for me.
frisco
SW 338lbs. GW 175lbs. Goal in 11 months. CW 148lbs. WL 190lbs.
" To eat is a necessity, but to eat intelligently is an art "
VSG Maintenance Group Forum
http://www.obesityhelp.com/group/VSGM/discussion/
CAFE FRISCO at LapSF.com
Dr. Paul Cirangle
Damn...... I hate it when reality hits......
In general.....I have to say (politically correct) that were all different and we must all find our own way. See around here you always have to put the disclaimer in because people get tweaked.
If you can eat "normal" during or after WL and maintain your weight.........Ding Ding Ding !!!!!
You won !!!!! Congratulations!!!!!! You win !!!! Enjoy that pasta, bread, cake, cookies and rice !!!!!
There is one person on this board always trying to make a point that she can eat anything......That's cool! She is a "Winner" (wasn't meant to be a Charlie Sheen joke) The problem is she is trying to convince everyone that her way could be the way of others. Again.... cool.....but it's not the reality for most of us from what we see on this forum. Oh, and this person ends her eat anything rant with.....by the way....I'm a mountain climber.......
Maintenance is where you need to discover your base line and tolerances for holding and maintaining a weight range. From the sampling in the maintenance group..... most have to follow a low/lower carb diet similar to the WL phase. Sorry for the bad news.... reality sucks sometimes.
The majority of times when you read the "Help" posts..... I gained weight !!!! Guess what their eating??
So to all you "Winners" out there Congrats!....... the rest of us have a restrictive reality which isn't so bad in the big picture! Anyone in maintenance can eat anything with selective control, but must learn the art of adjusting.
Jim's post just made it real clear for me.
frisco
I am ALWAYS upfront that I am an avid hiker never said anything about mountain climbing. I also make it clear that I am not advocating anyone else do what I do only that what I am doing works for me. I am not sure why that makes you and so many others so uncomfortable.
Also I make it clear that I am NOT eating boxes of cookies, cakes and ice cream though I do occassionally have them. I do not claim to be a "winner". In fact I assert that I am not a winner, I am not blessed or special for that matter.
I am also not advocting eating 250-300 gms of carbs as Jimbo's post suggests, I continually post my carbs are in the range of 100 gms daily about the same as my protein intake which is what my nutrtionist recommends given my activity level.
Since you are pointing out reality that is MY reality and I will not apologize for it. I am not sure what you problem is with that.
I do not try to hide the fact that I am an avid hiker, I make it clear in all of my posts that I do hike almost daily and that allows for me to eat more carbs and more calories in general. I am proud of the fact that the sleeve has allowed me to become an avid hiker and more active lifestyle in general.
Damn...... I hate it when reality hits......
In general.....I have to say (politically correct) that were all different and we must all find our own way. See around here you always have to put the disclaimer in because people get tweaked.
If you can eat "normal" during or after WL and maintain your weight.........Ding Ding Ding !!!!!
You won !!!!! Congratulations!!!!!! You win !!!! Enjoy that pasta, bread, cake, cookies and rice !!!!!
There is one person on this board always trying to make a point that she can eat anything......That's cool! She is a "Winner" (wasn't meant to be a Charlie Sheen joke) The problem is she is trying to convince everyone that her way could be the way of others. Again.... cool.....but it's not the reality for most of us from what we see on this forum. Oh, and this person ends her eat anything rant with.....by the way....I'm a mountain climber.......
Maintenance is where you need to discover your base line and tolerances for holding and maintaining a weight range. From the sampling in the maintenance group..... most have to follow a low/lower carb diet similar to the WL phase. Sorry for the bad news.... reality sucks sometimes.
The majority of times when you read the "Help" posts..... I gained weight !!!! Guess what their eating??
So to all you "Winners" out there Congrats!....... the rest of us have a restrictive reality which isn't so bad in the big picture! Anyone in maintenance can eat anything with selective control, but must learn the art of adjusting.
Jim's post just made it real clear for me.
frisco
I am ALWAYS upfront that I am an avid hiker never said anything about mountain climbing. I also make it clear that I am not advocating anyone else do what I do only that what I am doing works for me. I am not sure why that makes you and so many others so uncomfortable.
Also I make it clear that I am NOT eating boxes of cookies, cakes and ice cream though I do occassionally have them. I do not claim to be a "winner". In fact I assert that I am not a winner, I am not blessed or special for that matter.
I am also not advocting eating 250-300 gms of carbs as Jimbo's post suggests, I continually post my carbs are in the range of 100 gms daily about the same as my protein intake which is what my nutrtionist recommends given my activity level.
Since you are pointing out reality that is MY reality and I will not apologize for it. I am not sure what you problem is with that.
I do not try to hide the fact that I am an avid hiker, I make it clear in all of my posts that I do hike almost daily and that allows for me to eat more carbs and more calories in general. I am proud of the fact that the sleeve has allowed me to become an avid hiker and more active lifestyle in general.
JIMBO... 350lbs! lost!..... TRIPLE CENTURY CLUB!! HELL ...YEAH!
MY VSG......KICKS ASS!
I am 6' 2"
JIMBO... 350lbs! lost!..... TRIPLE CENTURY CLUB!! HELL ...YEAH!
MY VSG......KICKS ASS!
I am 6' 2"
I also never said I can eat whatever I want whenever I want.
My issue was with Frisco which is why I quoted his post. He chose to call me out and then mischaracterized my general postings.
I found his post rude and bordering on outright lies of my general posts of how post op life has been for me.
I haven NEVER hid the fact that I am an avid hiker, I am damn proud of that fact. Obviously if I hike 9 miles I can consume more carbs than someone who does not exercise that is not rocket science.
On the other hand hiker or not it does not mean I have to eat less than 50 carbs per day or keep my calories less than 1000 at almost 3 years post op to be successful.
It does not mean I have to eat only lean meats and low fat to be successful.
I have never advocated that MY way is the only way.
I have never suggested that anyone else do as I do or even do as I say.
I just get really annoyed at folks, Frisco in this case, who feel it is OK to be dismissive or be derisive of what has been my experience.
I am proud of my success and I will continue to post it. I also expect I will continue to get PM's from folks who applaud me and want more info about how/why I do what I do. I saddens me they feel they cannot be open on the board because of how they see my posts being responded to.
