Question:
Have surgeons dropped patients for posting here?
When I went to my initial consultation, the surgeon's nurse asked me if I knew about AMOS. "Oh, yes!" I answered. She startled me by interrupting, "I hope you don't intend to post anything mean about Dr. _______ there, or..." and she let her voice trail off significantly. Then she tried to smile, but the smile never got as far as her eyes, if you know what I mean. The conversation spooked me. I took all the identifying information out of my profile here. Have surgeons really retaliated against patients for "telling it like it is" on this web site? I thought that's what it's for! And do AMOS members really backstab others by "turning them in" to the doctors? What's in it for them? Any ideas or experiences? — Virginia N. (posted on July 20, 2002)
July 20, 2002
YIKES ! ! does she have something to hide about the doctor!?! nah, i have
never heard of anyone really "turning" anyone else in or anything
else like you mentioned, but i am also only a new post-op (only 7 weeks)
and have been on the wonderful AMOS site for 7 months now. The AMOS site
has a disclaimer if you read it near where you post things about the
surgeon, it's all opinion. And I'm sure your surgeon is much too busy
performing the surgeries and checking up on his patients like you to worry
about it. Maybe the nurse was just worried, I don't know. I wouldn't worry
about it though, just my opinion! Goodluck to you! :)
— Lezlie Y.
July 20, 2002
I think I would have second thoughts about the nurse threatening me! Also,
LOL - I think I would look to see if anyone else had anything on here to
say about him. What a witch she is. The nurse at my doctors office comes
here and even emails me. She is the best. Good Luck, and watch you back!
— Pam G.
July 20, 2002
I sometimes wonder about the things some people post. This is a public
forum and of course opinions are valued. But sometimes people make their
statements in a libelous manner. In fact one of our members had her ex use
her postings in a custody case. The internet seems to be so annonymous.
Also I would be wary of that doctor. My surgeons nurse warned us that not
everything we read here is sound medically, and we should check with them
before we listened to advice that is contrary to what they suggest.
The more I think about your nurse, the angier I get.
— faybay
July 20, 2002
I've been a member of this site since Feb. 2001, and yes, I have seen at
least two posts from members regarding getting backlash from something they
posted about a doctor or a doctor's staff. I don't recall either the
doctors' names or the members names right now. But, yes, it DOES happen,
so you have to watch what you say. There are "eyes" out there
that keep tabs on what's being said. I really don't care what I say about
Kaiser now that I've had my surgery, but pre-op I was careful about what I
said, even on my profile. Now I just tell it like it is (I don't lie so
it's not slander). Hugs, Joy
— [Deactivated Member]
July 20, 2002
Actually I have read about a doctor cancelling a surgery because of
comments on here. The doctor was in No. Va if I knew his name I'd put it,
lol, I have a bad memory. His nurse saw the comment and told the surgeon.
So, yes it is possible, petty, but possible.
— Morna B.
July 20, 2002
I wouldn't be surprised. I was wondering why I have seen nothing but RAVE
reviews about every doctor and hospital on this site. I'm not saying one
should libel a doctor or post something out of spite, but if you can't tell
the truth when something bad happens or give both the pros and cons of your
experience, then why do we have physician reviews on this site? What good
is it if people can't be honest about their experiences? I initially used
reviews from this site to find my surgeon. I guess I get to find out all
the stuff everyone else was afraid to post.
— Susan B.
July 20, 2002
Hehe. I think the real question you should ask yourself is why this surgeon
is so concerned about what might be posted out here? Does he / she have
something to hide? This alone might be enough for me to consider another
surgeon.
— Greg P.
July 20, 2002
YOU have a right to your opinion. To give a one sided review is not fair
to the prople who will go to your surgon after you. Tell it like it is.
Good bad AND UGLY. Its the only way us obese people have to advocate for
ourselves and each other.
— k r.
July 20, 2002
ON second thought, DROP THAT DOCTOR. Its scary that they fear their
patients sharing information. Get a doc that encourages you to have a
place to vent and get support.
— k r.
July 20, 2002
I would be very leery of this guy! You have a right to your opinion and a
right to post it! I saw another surgeon before the one I'm using now. I
didn't like him and, although I tried to do it in a nice way, I posted my
feelings about it. I think other AMOS members have a right to know!
— Want2bslim
July 20, 2002
I knew who your doctor was as soon as I saw this question. If I were you,
I'd
find another doctor. I had originally planned to use him and
through this site and some discussions with professionals (other
physicians) decided he wasn't a good idea.
— Lisa C.
July 20, 2002
I have to say that I wouldn't trust a doctor who watched
every move I made like that. My own doctor knows about
this site and has been very encouraging about using it
as well as my other support group which I go to once a
month and post online with every chance I get. My PCP
is the same....very supportive of the online sites and
my surgery. Your doctor sounds like a control freak...
wanting to control what you say and what you hear about
him. I would worry that his ego might get in the way
of your health. Take care.
— Wendy C.
July 20, 2002
I believe this is my surgeon who is being discussed here, so I wanted to
put in my two cents. I obviously wasn't there, but I think I know whom
you're referring to (she's not a nurse, btw), and I am certain she was just
making a joke and never thought it would be taken seriously. However, it
may have indeed occurred to her to joke about that topic (and be sensitive
about it) because there actually was an incident between this surgeon and
one of his patients where the patient did claim that he had dropped her as
a result of things she had posted on AMOS. It's hard to know what really
happened, but from what I've heard (primarily from the patient's own posts,
with some limited background from other patients who were familiar with her
situation), the surgeon called this woman the night before surgery and told
her that he was going to have to postpone, because he had just reviewed her
EKG and he had some serious concerns about it. He wanted her to be checked
out by a cardiologist before proceeding. The patient was very angry about
this delay, and she blamed the surgeon for not looking at the EKG earlier
since it had been been at his office for several days (admittedly, it would
have been nice if it had been done earlier... but surgeons also stay
extremely busy). She vented her anger on the AMOS site and her side of the
story is that someone in the surgeon's office saw her negative statements
on AMOS, showed them to the surgeon, and the surgeon then
"invited" the patient to find a different doctor. That last part
is unsubstantiated, and I imagine there may have been a lot more to the
interactions between patient and doctor than just that.
<br><br>
I learned about this incident long before choosing this man to be my
surgeon. In contrast to one of the other posters here, this was the only
negative feedback I could find anywhere about this doctor. I have a good
friend who is physician in DC (a Johns Hopkins-educated infectious disease
specialist) and who checked into the surgeon for me -- he said that he is
very well known and has an excellent reputation. I inquired about the
surgeon's stats. He's done more than 500 WLS procedures (including some on
very high-risk patients) and has had NO deaths. A 0% mortality rate. He is
extremely careful with each and every patient, and they all love him. I
haven't come across a single person who has had this man perform their
surgery who doesn't now believe the man practically walks on water. He is
the kindest, most caring, and most dedicated doctor I have ever met. And
brilliant (he graduated from med school at the age of 22... and he's
managed to pick up a PhD in biochemistry along the way). I could go on and
on and on, but I'll end here by saying that I am now 5-weeks post-op, and I
couldn't be more pleased to have him as my doctor.<br><br>
My point is... let's be a little careful about the things we say here. If
we don't want surgeons to be concerned about what is posted about them on
the internet, this isn't the way to go about it. All of us should feel
comfortable posting the truth about our own personal experiences. However,
when we start posting about negative things we've "heard" about a
doctor, that just isn't right.
— Tally
July 20, 2002
I remember when I first came to AMOS I saw a post from a member talking
about this subject. She had complained on here about how the surgeon's
office was rude and slow with her paperwork. When she contacted them once
again about the paperwork, she was told that the surgeon had decided not to
except her for surgery because of the comments from the site. I could not
believe it! But as I told her, why go to a surgeon who is so paranoid!? I
am still pre-op and I adore my choice of a surgeon, but if anything like
this happened to me I would drop him in a heartbeat. AMOS is the most
brilliant place for us pre-ops as well as posties! Where would I be without
all the encouragment from my AMOS friends?? Out of my mind, thats where! We
all have enough physical and emotional ups and downs and worrying over this
type of pettiness just makes my blood boil!
— karmiausnic
July 20, 2002
Virginia, I just posted that long rant, and I forgot to do the most
important thing -- offer my support & well-wishes for your upcoming
surgery, no matter whom you choose as your doctor. I do believe that it's
important to be completely comfortable with your decision, even if it means
switching doctors mid-stream. If you have any questions at all (about this
particular surgeon, the DS, whatever), please feel free to email me. Good
luck!
— Tally
July 20, 2002
I have to say that everyone has made a very good point here. If you do not
feel comfortable with a specific surgeon then you have the right to go to
someone else. Any other response would be beating a dead horse. I beleive
that the physician you are refering to is my surgeon (I have been lucky
enough to have had a great experience with him and his office), and I want
to hear the good as well as the bad. I have a freind that used to go to my
current primary care physician and loathed him, but I just love him to
death. I think that each person takes and handles a situation their own
way. Please remember it is your choice and good luck with whatever you
decide to do.
— Jennifer E.
July 20, 2002
Yes, if you don't like the surgeon, you have every right to go to someone
else. But if you have to invest 7 months into finding out something that
you could have found out very quickly via comments on this board, then I
think that's a crying shame. Some people who go looking for this surgery
actually die waiting for it, so time can be of the essense. And I don't
think comments such as "I didn't like him" mean a thing.
Specific and factual comments like "his office took 6 months to file
my insurance claim" are useful.
— Susan B.
July 20, 2002
My surgeon is WONDERFUL! However the crush of patients led to back office
problems that began showing up here as negatives in posters comments. I
printed his entire profile and gave him the negatives after a support group
meeting suggesting he do something . He thanked me. He has added a lot of
staff and 2 additional surgeons, and things are REALLY improving. It took
several months for all the improvemnents. So negative comments here can
accomplish great things. My saurgeon really responded to comments here.
— bob-haller
July 21, 2002
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Bob--I'm glad your surgeon reacts so
well to criticism, but I'm still not comfortable that mine would react the
same way, especially after reading Tally's comments. Tally--how come Dr.
Elariny's "other patients" know what happened between him and
this woman? If patient confidentiality doesn't count in his office, that's
another red flag for me...
— Virginia N.
July 21, 2002
In case I am the woman to whom Tally refers in her first post, this is the
only contemporary posting of mine on this site that I could find. You can
judge for yourself if this is "very angry": "01/30/01 --
Surgery was canceled on 1/30/01, as I lay on the stretcher, because Dr.
Elariny did not check the EKG I had taken twelve days earlier until the
night before the surgery. There was no time for the
cover-the-doctor's-backside stress tests, etc., so the cardiologist and the
anesthesiologist (Elariny did not come to the hospital) shrugged their
shoulders and sent me home."
There was no interaction between us from the night-before call until ten
days later, when I was cleared by the cardiologist for surgery (in the same
night-before call, Elariny had put me in fear that I would need a triple
heart bypass). He had not called me in the meantime or checked on me in
any way, and it was in my call to him that he told me to find myself
another surgeon. We had no "history" that prepared me for his
display of pique. For what it's worth, he was as nice as pie to me, too,
until I questioned why he'd let my EKG sit on his desk for nearly two
weeks. Then he blew up.
I'm not surprised that those who are not dazzled by Elariny don't go to
those who thinks he "walks on water" with their complaints (would
you?). They do, however, seek out and come to me. I am not the only one
who's been treated to his temper, nor the only one who's been sent
elsewhere for posting--or being thought to have posted--something
"negative."
No Elariny loyalist ever seems to ask herself how she would feel if, on the
night before the surgery, she'd not only been told that the surgery was
probably off, but also--erroneously, as it turned out, and quite
casually--that her heart was a ticking time bomb.
I am now post-Elariny, post-op, and thin. And if no others speak out, I,
at least, will remain a permanent flat note in the chorus of Elariny
patients.
— Kay B.
July 21, 2002
Virginia, other patients became aware of the situation because Kay B.
posted extensively about it on the duodenal switch Yahoo! group and through
personal emails.<br><br>
Kay B., I'm sincerely sorry about what happened with you surgery. I'm sure
it was traumatic for you, and it sounds as if both you and the doctor
became very upset with each other. I do not know all of the circumstances.
I hope and believe that there is another side to the story, because I have
had the chance to interact with this surgeon extensively and it's very
difficult for me to imagine the kind of behavior you're describing. By the
way, my surgery was postponed too. I was already waiting at the hospital
for several hours (bowels prepped, nerves on end, nothing to drink all day)
when he came to tell me in the late afternoon that his morning surgery had
run much longer than expected and we would have to reschedule mine. He was
so apologetic about it, so sensitive to my feelings. Maybe you hit him on a
bad day last year, or maybe his experience with you helped him to become
more empathetic with his future patients. Doctors are human, and people do
learn and grow. All I can say is that he was wonderful with me, and I would
recommend him to anyone.
— Tally
July 21, 2002
Man, oh man, what a can of worms this opened up!! First off I would like to
say that I work with doctors, BUT, if a doctor has nothing better to do
than worry about what someone may or maynot post about them is just really
pathetic! And why would you post anything mean about him when you hadn't
even met him yet?? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, as we all want to have
surgery ASAP, but I would look elsewhere! He just sounds scary! Of course,
it could just be the nurse, but could you really be comfortable with him
now?? I'm sure you realize that she told him that you have been on AMOS.
And btw, last I checked, it was still a free country! It just worries me
that she would assume you would say something bad before she even
considered that you might actually say something nice!! I mentioned to my
dr.'s nurse that she was mentioned quit often on people's profiles, and the
only thing she said was "I hope it's good things!" I assured her
that it was. :)
Good luck, you have some tough choices to make now.
— Terri Z.
July 21, 2002
I too went to a surgeon that most people thought walked on water. I on the
otherhand really didnt feel like he was right for me and his office staff
was pure rude. I didnt write what I really thought about him in my profile
because of his rabid supporters flaming me but I came to realize one thing.
This is the biggest, hardest, life changing decision I have ever had to
make. This is MY life and I'm going to do whats right for ME. If you have
any doubt about this surgeon, get another one!! Its thats simple. I
started this process last may and now I have to start all over but its
worth it to me and my state of mind. Hope this helps you in some way.
Take care.
— Siddy I.
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