Question:
The carbohydrate argument continued
OK, I'm not trying to start an argument here, merely put forward my point of view. I really do not see how it is possible to limit yourself to 20g of carbs a day. Here's why. Before I even have any normal food I'm at 9 carbs. Protein drink = 3g, tums = 2g, multivit = 4g. In addition here are the per portion carb counts for the following healthy foods many seem to recommend (I only like the bread LOL): Non Fat Milk = 12g Non Fat Cottage Cheese = 6g Non Fat Yogurt = 19g Dry Oatmeal Cereal = 18g Watermelon = 35g Banana = 29g Whole wheat bread = 13g Grapenuts = 23g So even the healthiest, least flavorful or enjoyable foods are carb loaded. — Sandy A. (posted on October 23, 2003)
October 23, 2003
Sandy, I agree with you. I continue to search for and eat items that are
the lowest in carbs and sugars that I eat for my mainstays (i.e. low fat
low sugar yogurt for breakfast). But I also generally enjoy 2 servings of
fruit each day and when you add everything all together it seems impossible
to come to just 20 grams of carbs each day. To me it seems unrealistic and
frankly, not what I choose to attempt for the rest of my life. I've said
it before and I'll say it again - I think that a successful postop will
learn to live their life moderately eating-wise. We've come from the
extreme of most likely overeating and eating many of the wrong things and I
don't know if going to the other extreme is necessarily good either -
except of course in the beginning when you're not eating very much anyhow.
I enjoy things like basmati rice and consider it a healthy addition to my
diet. Granted by the time I get thru eating my protein first it might only
be a few tablespoons of rice that I can eat. I can't imagine that that
would be bad for me. I am very committed to be a long-term successful post
op and have followed a very strict regimen during my 8+ months of being
post op. I have surpassed my goal weight of 135 and feel great. My goal
is to continue eating protein first always but also including a wide
variety of foods into my diet.
— Judy R.
October 23, 2003
Hi there...I'm still real confused about carbs (even a year out) everyone
tells me to stay under 30...My Dr. tells me to get about 100..His quote
"carbs give you energy" I try to limit them. But I'm not the carb
police- I think fresh fruits and veggies, whole wheat grains are a MUST for
LIFE- once in a while I have some bread- I didn't have this surgery to
deprive myself of everything- just to learn the word MODERATION...I think
thats the key to everything......MODERATION :) Best wishes Kim
— WABBIT F.
October 23, 2003
I, for one, since my surgery have not counted anything! I always eat
protein first, bu tI do not limit my carbs. It is my understanding that
we should eat everything in moderation. I refuse to "diet"
anymore. I have lost 99 lbs. in 71/2 months doing things this way. It may
not work for everyone, but it works for me.
— lmaxwell
October 23, 2003
I won't even mention glycemic index. Okay, I did. I don't count carbs
either, but I do try to limit them. I have been on a plateau since May and
so I went through a period of writing down every bite until I used up an
entire notebook. It didn't seem to make any difference, and, like most
people, I eat about the same things every day. Carbs are usually under
100gms, protein 100-130 grams a day. I pay attention to calories. To me, 20
grams of carbohydrates is severly limited and I personally couldn't stick
with that past a week or two. Kudos to those who can, though.
— koogy
October 23, 2003
Hey Sandy! Me again...20 grams is impossible. I don't limit my complex
carbs (i.e., whole grain breads, fruits, etc) but I DO limit my simple
carbs (sweets, white bread, etc). I say as long as you're getting your
protein in first, drinking enough water and taking your vitamins
religiously...eat well! Good luck Sandy!
— Amy A.
October 23, 2003
I don't seem to have a problem keeping my carbs down to under 40 per day.
20 is extreme and really only used to break a plateua should you have one.
Most of the foods that you mention in your post have no protein. If you eat
protein first from the beginning and stop when you are full then you will
never have the room for certain things. I never eat bread or pasta or rice,
they have no real value to me nutritionally. When I want to eat carbs like
those I mentioned I am just being willful and feeling sorry for myself, as
though food is still the most important thing in my life. I do eat cottage
cheese and berries and there are 3 carbs in my shake and when I get my
period I will allow myself to have 3 cups of popcorn but I have to be
willing to completely change the way I eat and the way I see
"normal" if I, a formerly MORBIDLY OBESE person, am going to keep
this weight off forever. The further I am out the more I realize that this
is a tool and not a magic bullet. My tendencies, after years of bad habits,
are to overeat, eat carbs first and to eat at night as well as graze. I
have had to fight those things that seem so natural to me and have had
success. I hear people say that they counted nothing and still lost weight.
That is great but eventually my guess is that it will take more work than
that. The early stages of this seem effortless but I can say for sure that
it does not stay that way. Also there is a vast difference between 40 carbs
and 100 or more, I too find it to be very difficult to stay at 20. This is
my personal comfort stuff and I know opinions vary greatly but this has
worked for me and many others.
— Carol S.
October 23, 2003
I was hoping one of the "under 20 carbs" folks would post to
explain how they do this, too. My guess is that when people say they stay
under 20 carbs, maybe they're only counting "bad" carbs
(definition negotiable). For instance, maybe they don't worry about carbs
in green veggies, but they do count and limit the ones in potatos (or
bananas, or breads and pastas ... some count and limit the
"white" or "processed" carbs differently than other
sorts of carbs). Otherwise, I agree that limiting all carbs, regardless of
what they are, to 20 a day, would be something I wouldn't do for any length
of time, because I didn't find it necessary. While I was losing, I kept my
protein grams ahead of my carb grams every day, but that was my only
limitation. After reaching goal, I "upped" my carbs a bit in
order to try to stabilize. I think a relatively high protein diet has made
all the difference in my ability to keep the weight off so far, compared to
previous diets, because I do find that junky carbs (which I certainly do
eat) trigger overeating and head hunger in me. But I don't think
"high protein" has to mean really, really low carbs. JMHO.
— Suzy C.
October 23, 2003
My family is following the South Beach Diet and I am doing it with them
because it is a good way for me to eat anyway. The concept is after two
weeks of only lowfat protein and green veggies, you have
"detoxed" the sugar dependance out of your system and can begin
to add in some whole grains, fruits, etc. It is based on the concept of the
glycemic index, which says that foods with simple carbs that turn into
sugar immediately in your body cause an insulin-resistance response in most
people. Avoiding these (white flour, sugar, white potatoes, white rice etc)
will keep your blood sugar stable and help you be healthier. The book has
great recipes that we have all enjoyed. My family is losing the weight they
need to lose and I have lost a few pounds myself! But the best thing for me
is the increased energy and vitality. I have about concluded that the
high-glycemic carbs act as a depressant for me. hugs, Ann RNY 9/10/99
260/124
— [Deactivated Member]
October 23, 2003
I don't really count my carbs BUT just about every carb I eat is
"incidental", meaning that 90% (or more) of the time the carbs I
consume come from a protein source. Needless to say, I don't include,
milk, yogurt, fruit, or grains as a part of my 'everday' diet. Although, I
probably should try for more veggies one of these days. Anyway, if I am
going to go for the carbs (once or twice a week) it's usually something
really bad for me like french fries, cheese and crackers, pizza (but I
never eat all of the crust), or popcorn. Is 20 grams or less realistic?
Probably not. I think I consume that on the days when I stick to the
basics....protien drinks, egg & cheese for breakfast, lunch meat and
cheese for lunch, and chicken, steak, or seafood for dinner. I guess in
the end, you have to decide what works for you. Good luck!
— eaamc
October 23, 2003
If you look at the Atkins program he advises 20 grams of carbs for the
induction phase to sort of "jump start" the program, then
increase carbs til you come to a place where you are still losing. Staying
at 20 g of carbs is very severe and next to impossible for the long term.
— JoSyrNY
October 23, 2003
I do not subscribe to the all carbs are bad school of thinking. I believe
in a balanced diet of smart foods. There are really smart carbs and there
are stupid carbs, whole wheat and fresh fruits and vegetables being the
smart carbs and white breads, french fries and most junk food being the
stupid ones. Don't go nuts counting....just eat smart :)
— Sarah S.
October 23, 2003
I beg to differ about the examples of food I mentioned being low protein,
but i should have listed that as well. They are also taken from the
recommended foods list my surgeon gave me. Here's the protein per portion
Banana = 1g, watermelon & bread = 3g, oatmeal & grapenuts = 4g, non
fat milk = 8g, non fat yogurt = 14g & nf cott cheese = 26g
— Sandy A.
October 23, 2003
I have never posted an answer before but this issue drives me nuts. I try
to stick to 20 grams of carbs or less a day and it is possible. (For
example: Breakfast = 1/2 a mini bagel & 1T. cream cheese Lunch = 3
oz. chicken salad (homemade- poached chicken, 1/2 T light mayo, fresh
basil) Dinner = 3 oz. scallops Snack = 1 morning and 1 evening protein
shake (Mochachino is very good).) My total for the day is 84 grams
protein, 19 grams carbs, 561 calories, 15 grams of fat. (I will sometimes
add a caesar salad for veggies but a cup of lettuce only has 1 carb and
dressing has 0). I track everything on fitday.com to make sure I'm getting
everything I need.
I'm not sure this is right because I can honestly say I do not see a
difference in my weight loss when I do this (which is typical) or I splurge
and add a few extra carbs. I am a typical 2 pound a week loser. It works
for me and I stick to it.
I just wanted to show you that it is possible but you need to do what works
for you. I know we are all concerned that we are doing the right thing but
as long as you feel good, you're healthy and you're losing weight, you're
doing fine. Hope this helps. Heidi LapRNY 6/30/03 218/167/118
— Heidi Z.
October 23, 2003
Just wanted to add my 2 cents that I LOVE the South Beach Diet. I think
it's a healthy way for post-ops to eat. It was written by a cardiologist,
and definitely recommends the "right" kind of carbs (complex
ones). As a carb addict, I still have to be careful, even with the
"right" kind, but South Beach is awesome. Also explains why we
need to watch the whole carb thing, and why the refined carbs make us
hungry and will defeat our weight loss efforts.
— mom2jtx3
October 23, 2003
I'm with Leda on this one. I have managed to lose all (and then some) of
my extra weight by not counting one calorie, carb or fat gram. So many
people go over board with this surgery by counting EVERYTHING that goes
into thier mouths. We all know what is 'good' and 'bad' regarding foods,
make smart choices and you will succeed, make bad ones and you may not.
It's up to the idividual, but for me I chose to enjoy my weight loss and
not over think everything. Becky, 25 mos postop, -135lbs, below goal at
130lbs, and really enjoying life. :)
— RebeccaP
October 23, 2003
Ok folks, it's mid morning and I haven't eaten any real food yet, because I
have my protein drink as breakfast. I just went to fitday and entered my
protein drink, tums, vitamins, non fat powdered milk (Surgeon insists on
this), one cup of tea and one cup of coffee, and WHOA - I'm at 13 gs of
carbs already. Me thinks maybe the 20 grammers or less a day are not
including everything. LOL
— Sandy A.
October 23, 2003
I follow a very low carb plan since about 2 months post op and I have to
say that NONE of the things that you listed as "healthy foods"
are on my daily list of things to eat as a low carber. I have 3-5 protein
shakes a day at 0-3carbs each depending on which one I'm drinking, which I
only mix with water. I eat mostly protein otherwise, since carbs have
always been weight gainers for me. I do only count "impact
carbs" and I don't count carbs in things like multivitamins. I am
post-RNY so I don't take TUMS for my calcium so I can't speak to that. I
will say that if I really want something that is higher in carbs than my
usual fare, I will have it. I have found that things like fruit, milk,
cereal, bread, etc cause my wt loss to stop so I know that if I eat those
things I have to pay the price of no wt loss. To each his own though.
This is what works for me. I'm down 130lbs in 8months and I will continue
with this plan for as long as it is working.
— cfpowers
October 23, 2003
This is in response to Heidi Z who posted her own caloric/carb intake.
WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....4 months out and eating 561 calories.....561
CALORIES!!!! Can a child even live on that? NO POSSIBLE way.....I see
what you're eating....but where are the vegies or fruit for that matter?
Not to mention the calcium or milk products? I'm serious...I can't believe
the way we eat after this surgery! It's good to know the amounts of carbs
etc...but, really....we've become obsessive about this. Somewhere it's got
to stop.
— Heather D.
October 23, 2003
I'm 20 months post-op and within 2 pounds of original goal. I did not get
here by counting carbs or fat grams or calories for that matter. A balanced
diet is much healthier for us, than limiting to 20 grams of carbs. If we
follow the protein first, good carbs (fruits and veggies and whole grains),
tons of water, minimize or eliminate the bad carbs and sugars, and add
regular exercise and vitamins, you can achieve steady weight loss without
having to track every morsel or so severely limit what you eat. I know
some need that structure, especially early on, but honestly, once you get
the hang of it, its not hard.
— Cindy R.
October 23, 2003
I feel somewhat responsible for this issue having suggested to someone
stuck on a plateau that she use the Atkins induction phase diet for a few
days (and cut daily carb intake to 20 grams and boost daily protein to over
60 grams). It is possible to follow this regimine for a few days, and it
is particularly effective in breaking a plateau. As for the long-term, I
count my carbs and keep them below an average of 40 per day; as someone who
was super morbidly obese and is now below my original goal, I have a real
fear of reverting to the bad eating habits that forced me to accept WLS;
carbs were a real trigger food for me. The way to avoid returning to those
bad habits (for me) is to count my carbs; by restricting carbs (and
boosting protein), I can control my hunger and force my body to burn fat
for energy. Now, I recognize that some people have gastric bypass so that
they can eat like "normal" people. I, on the other hand, merely
wanted to have help controlling my insatiable hunger; the gastric bypass
provided the tool to achieve that goal and restricting carbs for me makes
the best use of this "tool". Like so many people who
acknowledge their food addictions, I faced a choice--- either a lifetime of
not counting carbs (but counting the number of high blood pressure meds I
would take each day) or a lifetime of counting carbs (but no longer having
to count the number of times friends and family begged me lose weight
before I died-- for me the choice was an easy one.
— SteveColarossi
October 24, 2003
I have very reactive hypoglycemia and dump very easily on carbs... so I can
keep them around 20 or 30- and have to or I am constantly sick. That means
no starches, no bread, no pasta. I don't do cow milk, fruit, or normal
bread either. There are plenty of alternatives to these items on the market
now. Low-card bread, soy milk with no sugar in it, etc. Nothing is
impossible ;)<br>
And to say that some people are not keeping track of "everything"
is a bit presumptuous. Some of us have to be obsessive about this for many
health reasons. Not keeping track is part of why I became so obese. I would
rather keep track of it all than go back to the way I was.
— kultgirl
October 24, 2003
Shelli - lighten up. I said I didn't want to start an argument, and I said
it was just my opinion. I also said I think maybe some people werent
listing everything. I for example had forgotten to include the carbs in my
tums, vitamins, black tea and coffee, and I am pretty anal. So sorry if I
upset you, but I did say SOME.
— Sandy A.
October 24, 2003
Just answering your question, hon. You asked if it is possible - yes, it
is. And for some people, really important.
— kultgirl
October 24, 2003
I have not had surgery yet...to answer positive about 20 grams of carbs, In
2002 my doc was going to put me on meds for Diabetes 2 so on July 23, 2002
I started Atkins, I stayed on Induction which was 20 carbs and in 3-4 month
had lost 25 pounds ..this is where I am stuck ..I have stayed on 20-30
carbs because my sugar dropped to 95-100 and Atkins as well , I dont want
any more meds..I have an egg omelet and saugage for brekfast, decaf tea and
splenda lunch -a salad wwith feta cheese or a lunch meat sandwich (Atkins
bread) or soups I make chicken egg drop ..and meat and a complex carb
veggie for dinner..I snack on a small bag of Planters pnuts 3 grams or pork
rinds or Atkins indulgence treats...I am meabolically resistance and have
maintained this weight loss and will prob have surgery in Jan at a pre-op
weight of 223...BMI is 42.7 and the nutritionist told me not to lose much
more because Ins will not approve under 40..hah thats the first time I was
told not to lose..There are many low carb cookbooks DANA CARPENDIER has a
decent one..Carbs can be a negative thing thin or obese...Good Luck to you
all I love this site..looking at your pics and reading for journals...
— Linda R.
October 24, 2003
Hi Sandy: Can't help with the carb debate sorry. Quick response to
Linda's answer though. I was at about 42 BMI when I first met my surgeon.
I asked about losing to below 40 and not qualify and was told that the
insurance didn't ask again after approval so it would be ok to go below 40.
Maybe it is a doctor's policy or maybe different insurances have different
policies? I got to 40.5 so it didn't matter. But after they told me not
to worry about it I didn't. Just FYI. :o) S
— sherry hedgecock
October 27, 2003
I had surgery at Batiatric treatment center. My goal is to get 56 grams
protein a day. I eat meats, chicken, fish, fruits, veggies, milk and other
dairy products, and GOD FORBID a lttle whole wheat bread or cereal or
oatmeal every day. At my 1 year check up i was told that my average 1100
calories was maybe a little too low. I have lost 122 pounds and am 8 pounds
from my dream goal of 130. I FEEL wonderful and truely believe that the
balance in my diet is the best approach for ME. BTC has a huge program with
a terrific long term success rate and I like the balance in the program
that they have going. my average carbs are 80 - 100 a day. the dietician
reviewed my diet journal with calories, protein, fat, and carb grams and
said it was terrific and if I continue as I have been I should have a
really good long term success. I will never live on protein drinks mixed w/
water (YECH) or give up my fruits and veggies. I track my diet on fit day
some of the time and find my nutritional intake etc is best when I focus on
being sre to get in a couple servings veggies and 2 pieces of fruit a day.
— **willow**
October 28, 2003
I wasn't told to only take in a certain amount of carbs. I have stuck with
the sugar free/no sugar added rule when I can, but am allowed to eat
fruits, drink 100% pure fruit juices, and eat veggies...all of which
contain carbs. Carbs in those forms are not the demons, its the carbs in
sweets that are. Bread has to be whole wheat..when I am able to eat it. I
have lost 20 pounds in 3 weeks, so I'm doing something right, and I am not
counting carbs.
— eweejoe
Click Here to Return