Question:
Need stats on WLS Failures
I have been questioned at another site regarding this topic and I cannot find any information in our database to show either way. Her statement was this: There are people out there, who have had surgery, stuck to the diet, exercised like crazy and due to their body makeup- have not lost weight(and I am sure with ANY surgery there is a failure factor, not just WLS). I thought perhaps there used to be a support group for these people? I am not looking for stories of revisions, surgery disruptions or bands "not working"... I am looking for stats on WLS (any kind) being performed correctly, the recipients following everything to the "t" (diet & exercise) and still not losing ANY weight- period. Actual documented surgery "failures". Anyone out there? — Karen R. (posted on November 1, 2002)
November 1, 2002
For the RNY properly performed and eating plan followed EVERYONE looses
weight! According to my surgeon. Now the average loss is 75% to 80% and
that means some loose it all like me and others dont. But trust me EVERYONE
looses a lot. <P> Now grazing by drinking DQ all day long can
sabotage the loss, even for a dumper. <P> There are some folks like
Sue who like to scare people from having surgery. Push the risks and
largely gloss over the positives. All while taking stuff out of context to
push their opinion. SURGERY WORKS, at least the RNY does. Hey you cany go
to eatimng a egg size portion and not loose weight. Never happen...
— bob-haller
November 1, 2002
As the Coordinator of a Bariatric Program and a post op myself I have never
heard of a failure after EVERYTHING is done properly. I agree with Bob,
grazing, sweet drinks, etc. are what will make you fail. If you think
about it.....if anyone, with or without surgery, followed a diet and
exercise plan to the "t" forever they would lose weight and
maintain the loss. If you have a successful surgery and you follow your
diet and exercise plan it seems to me that it would be a physical
impossibility to fail. Body fat requires fuel (food) to be maintained so
"no food - no fat". Makes sense to me. There is no such thing
as an obese "body make up". There are certainly people who will
never be twiggy but it takes food to maintain body fat. Sounds to me like
the person who made the statements might have some bitterness or
frustration regarding the surgery (possibly a personal failure) and is
passing it on to you via the "misery loves company" theory. Best
wishes to you!!
— ronascott
November 1, 2002
This is not a Sue Widmark generated question! Not at all! In fact it was
at my PCOS site. My standard response to people who question the failure
of WLS, is that it depends on if they are working the tool (and all the
stuff you guys wrote). However this is not what I am looking for! She
said that she knows people who've had the surgery, they diet, they
exercise- who did not lose weight. How can I contradict that if she says
it's true, without stats? So, are there stats out there or am I looking for
Bigfoot?
— Karen R.
November 1, 2002
Why don't you ask this person for those people's names and if you can call
them and talk to them personally? It just seems like the 'I know somebody
who had the surgery and it failed' story. Did they have surgery 20 years
ago? Are they sabotaging themselves? etc. Find out the facts and don't take
anybody's 'word' for it. Just my opinion.
— Kris T.
November 1, 2002
this is semi true. They do lose some weight, but not much. The reason
that there are no stats is that the medical profession believes they are
either liars or in denial. Most people I know either do well or misuse
their tool, but there are a few whose bodies find a way around this
surgery.
— faybay
November 1, 2002
This surgery works for anyone willing to accept the following FACTS OF
LIFE:
You must change your food choices...forever.
Those choices need to be 100% protein until you get to goal weight. Then
add a tiny bit of carbs to slow or stop weight loss.. Those carbs need to
be in the form of vegetables...green beans, not potatoes. Fruit..preferably
apples instead of bananas. Carbs are not bread, rice, or candy.
You must also exercise a minimum of 1 hour per day. FOREVER. It would be
nice to add 1 or 2 more hours per day several days a week.
You must drink constantly. Teaching yourself to "keep busy" by
drinking. This helps you stop snacking and will keep "potty"
problems away.
You need to eat only 3 meals a day. Try to not snack. Use every trick in
the book to keep from snacking.
Never NEVER never drink calories. Everything you drink must be no calorie
liquids.
Do this and you will lose all your weight, and maintain your loss forever.
FACT
— lee J.
November 1, 2002
Hate to burst everyone's bubble, but my surgeon did tell me in my
consultation (on 7/01/02) that there are actually people who have the
surgery and can't/don't lose weight. He said that it is rare but does
happen and no one knows why. That is just what he told me and he has been
doing this for a long time. He didn't say whether or not any of his
patients have had this happen, but he did mention it when going over the
risks/complications with me.
— Lori F.
November 1, 2002
Lori congratulations on your choice of surgeons. I believe there is
nothing better than an honest surgeon.
— faybay
November 1, 2002
Karen, what you are suggesting must be so rare that you are not getting any
responses from those who meet the criteria you list. I have heard of
post-ops a year or two after they lose their weight complaining that the
weight is creeping back again, even though they swear they are not eating
any differently and are eating healthy (scary thought for those of us still
losing). But I have never heard of anyone who is a new post-op and could
not lose any weight without their being a mechanical/medical or the person
is abusing food big time. I have heard of a few that have lost smaller
amounts than they expected, but not no weight at all. If there are any out
there, the stats must be incredibly low and when compared to all those the
surgery works for, well, the SUCCESS column will be much higher than the
FAILURE.
— Cindy R.
November 1, 2002
Karen, can I just add this. The girl who asks this question said
"there are people out there who have stuck to it . . .", but I
ask you this, where is THAT documented? In other words, it's just a
persons word that they stuck to it. Unless you are with a person 24/7, how
can any of us know what they really did? I am not saying that it's always
a lie, but it's possible that some people actually THINK they are doing
everything right. I have a friend who had some sort of WLS (don't remember
what kind), about 12 years ago. She lost some weight at first, but gained
some back. She doesn't think she did anything wrong. HOWEVER, she was an
alcoholic and drank her calories. She also ate a lot of soft, high calorie
foods like ice cream and mashed potatoes. She never exercised. I
personally say this, yet she acted like the surgery just didn't work for
her. The point I'm trying to make is, it's probably very, very rare that
someone can do everything they are supposed to and not lose any weight. Of
course, if that can happen, it probably will happen with me!! LOL
— Kathy S.
November 1, 2002
She may know one of the rare "a person", but i would bet money
that she does not know "people" that have had this problem. I am
sure that there are the very rare people that have this surgery and do not
lose much at all. Very sad thought, Huh?? But, I personally have been on
this web site for over a year and in the chat room VERY frequently, and
read the Q and A a few times a day as well as the message board. and though
I have met many slow losers, I do not think I have met a single person that
has not lost anything. BUt, As I said, I do not doubt that they are out
there. Also, you may want to clarify what kind of surgery they had, the
adjusable band people do have MUCH more of this problem. So, if she knows
bandsters, she may be telling the truth, but groupping the band folk in
with the bypass folks. As you know, they are a different animal!!
— Vicki L.
November 1, 2002
I have already mentioned the facts of surgery to her (use the tool
correctly, you get correct results); I just wanted to know if anyone heard
of a stat(perhaps such a 1%?) of those who have had surgery, did everything
correctly and still failed to lose. I wasn't looking for the "top
ten" reasons why people fail, because as I said- this was already
discussed between us and it's not the point of my question! I have been at
this site for a while, I have heard ALL the failure stories and what they
did to get there and all the great advice people give, and I DO pass it
along to people who need it. Still, as with ANY surgery performed to fix
ANY ailment- there has to be someone it didn't fix. Do not automatically
assume that they cheat, that is unfair. This person I am in a discussion
with is not ignorant, or in misery. She had a legitimate question. I was
merely looking for stats! I do appreciate the input-if anyone finds any
NEW news, please post.
— Karen R.
November 1, 2002
Hello,
It is rare that I post to these questions, but your question entrigued me.
I was thinking about stats because I am a very statistical kind of person
myself. I read everyone's response and thought many have valid points.
The stats you are looking for aren't exactly out there yet. I know because
I have searched. But, let me say this. If you want to look at it this
way. Calories are fuel. Something between 2500-3500 calories equal 1
pound of fat. (I say 3000, the happy medium.:) If your intake of calories
in one day is say around 800-1000 and you burn 3000 calories a day then
subtract and do the math. Also, metabolism, sugar, and carbohydrates
through a crink into the whole thing. If you haven't read about Atkins,
check it out. It makes sense if you read it. So, with a combination of
exercise, (which again is math) you can subtract some calories from the
intake and boost the metabolims that is slow. Stay away from the starches
and anything with sugar and YOU will see a difference. Also, one last
thing. Our bodies have this thing about catching up--blah blah blah.
While I didn't want to believe it, it happens. So, maybe some can't loose
all their weight. But here is the thing, if they followed all the above
reccomendations, then why is their body different from everyone elses?
Sorry for the long winded answere but I think anyone can do it if they are
following the "rules". REALLY following the rules. The only
ones they are fooling are themselves--Trust me, I have tried fooling myself
and I didn't have surgery for nothing! Oh yeah, start weight was 391, now
I am 227. And I worked my A** off for it and probably always will. I still
have 55 more to go but I will do it! Because I'm not fooling anyone--Not
even myself!
— ningrahm
November 1, 2002
I am no doctor, but I do know of one person who had the surgery and
followed the directions and it failed them. The reason?....she had a
disease (i believe it was cushings...but not sure) that made it hard for
her to lose the weight. There are some doctors that do not require their
patients to have an endocrine exam before surgery. An endocrine exam could
have detected that for her. However I agree with the previous poster that
said there is still some loss no matter how minimal.
— Alicia M.
November 1, 2002
These are the stats my surgeon gave me. I don't have his original sources
in front of me right now, but he had them listed on his original paperwork.
With a proximal RNY (most common WLS), 85% of people are able to keep off
65%+ of their excess weight after five years. So yes, there are some
failures. Definitely a lot less failures than with traditional dieting,
but there are failures. I think the failure percentage for those following
the guidelines "to a t" is probably less than 2%.
— Terissa R.
November 2, 2002
Hi Karen:
I know when I signed the consent forms for my lap rny, there was a sentence
in there that said you acknowledge that there is a 1-2% failure to lose
weight with this surgery. Must be in there for a reason. If the surgeon
never needed this protection, why would everyone I know be asked to sign
this?
Love Grace
— Grace H.
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