Question:
I just got a check from my insurance company for all my surgery bills,
The check was made out to me in an amount over 20000 dollars, my husband joking says lets take the money and run, I was wondering if I could cash it and invest the money short term and just make payments on the hospital bills. If anyone has any opinions on this or knows any laws pertaining to this please share them with me! — [Anonymous] (posted on January 24, 2002)
January 24, 2002
Yeah, it's called theft, and might even be considered fraud, even if you
pay it afterwards. Besides which, it would be almost impossible to invest
it safely and get a good return on the money in a short period of time.
Anything you would invest in would have to be high risk which gives the
potential of losing all or part of your original investment.
— [Anonymous]
January 24, 2002
Most hospitals require payment upfront and are in communication with the
insurance company. Once they learn you have the cash from the insurance
company ~ it's pretty unlikely they'd settle for payments . . .too risky
for them. The insurance company gave you the money for the surgery ~ not
as an investment. Probably a better idea to be grateful they're covering
the costs of the surgery than to try to make money off of their money!
(smile)
— [Anonymous]
January 24, 2002
I work for an insurance company. Believe me, it's a very bad idea. That's
one reason insurance companies don't like to give customers a check
directly, there's too much temptation to do the wrong thing. We see it all
the time (people given money from insurance companies to repair vehicles or
homes and they cash the check and never do the repair then complain when
they can't collect on the next claim. People amaze me sometimes. Even
reading posts on this site, people are happy that that insurance covers the
surgery then grumble and complain if they don't cover a tummy tuck.
Amazing.
— [Anonymous]
January 24, 2002
Don't do it. Be honest. You trusted your surgeon with your life. He's
trusting you to just pay your bill. It sounds like a very bad idea.
— Goldilauxx B.
January 24, 2002
I am the original poster and I thank everyone for thier opinions, and I
would never not pay my bills exspecially to my surgeon I am forever
grateful to him, but I did spend the past six months fighting my insurance
and on the phone with them for hours at a time, being told after being
precertified that they wouldn't pay for one reason or another, it is nice
to know that I did find a way to be compensated for that if I pay my
hospital bill with my discover card I get cash rewards I see nothing at all
dishonest about that and it sure makes up for all the calls and tears the
insurance company caused me. I think maybe if the insurance companies were
a little kinder with obesity patients and not always denying everything for
every little reason people wouldnt want to take advantage of them I pay a
lot for my insurance $400 a month and being put thru what they put me thru
wasnt fair.
— [Anonymous]
January 25, 2002
Wow. What a post to read. It sounds like you think people / your
insurance company "owes" you. You need to take responsibility
for your own life. No one owes you a thing. Insurance companies can be
difficult but it's a business and the surgery IS expensive. They have a
right to turn it down if it doesn't meet their criteria. You don't have a
RIGHT to have the surgery on someone else's dime. Luckily, you found a way
to get it covered and I'm wondering how ethically /honestly you received
the approval. But you did. Just be thankful and don't plan on how you can
scam the insurance company. You talked about how unfair they were to you
and how many tears you shed. The weight is our problem not theirs. They
handed you over $20,000. You seem very ungrateful. If you have read
various posts, you can see how supportive everyone is, yet you can see all
the disapproval you've received, you should give that some thought. It
says something.
— [Anonymous]
January 25, 2002
I have to tell you I too would have considered cashing that check!! That is
a lot of money - it would pay a lot of bills off with higher interest rates
than what the doctor would probably charge. Yeah, it is probably not right
and probably illegal in some way but I would DEFINITELY be tempted. I don't
think you should feel too bad for comtemplating it - I think a lot of us
would. My motto - let your conscience be your guide. I also don't feel it
is right for others to slam you for just asking for opinions.
— [Anonymous]
January 25, 2002
HI, I FEEL FOR YOU IN RESPECT THAT YOU WERE MADE UPSET BY YOUR INS COMPANY,
BUT IN NO WAY DO THEY OWE YOU ANYTHING. REGARDLESS OF WHAT HASSLES YOU
WERE GIVEN,YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CASH THE CHECK AND MAKE ARRANGEMENTS. YOU
MAY PAY ALOT NOW FOR INS, BUT HAVE THEM FIND OUT WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND YOU
MAY NEVER GET INSURANCE , EVER.. IT'S CALLED FRAUD, DON'T LET ANYONE TELL
YOU DIFFERENT. EVEN IF YOU EVENTUALLY PAY YOUR HOSPITAL AND DOCTOR OFF,
YOU'VE TAKEN FUNDS THAT DO NOT BELONG TO YOU. IT IS NOT WORTH IT. 20,000 IS
NOT WORTH IT. YOU THINK YOU HAD HEARTACHE WITH THE APPROVAL, CASH THE
CHECK, AND DO NOT PAY THEM OFF ASAP, AND YOU HAVEN'T SEEN HASSLES. I'VE
WORKED IN INSURANCE FOR YEARS, AND THEY DO NOT MESS AROUND. THEY KEEP IN
CONTACT WITH THE DOCTOR TO SEE IF HE HAS BEEN PAID. IF THEY FIND OUT
PAYMENTS ARE BEING MADE, THEY'LL BE AT YOUR DOORSTEP INVESTIGATING.
— [Anonymous]
January 25, 2002
Amen to that! (I responded earlier and thought I'd check back. I see
there's been a lot of action!)
— [Anonymous]
January 25, 2002
My first question is - Did the insurance company pay the providers directly
AND then also give you a check for the $20,000? If they did, you are
committing insurance fraud if you cash the check and keep it. It is
punishable by a fine and possible jail term.
My second question - If the insurance company did NOT pay the providers and
they just paid you the $20,000 instead, your going to get ALL the bills
from the hospital, surgeon, etc and that $20,000 is to pay all those bills.
Then it really doesn't matter what you do with the money.
BTW, people who think they can screw insurance companies over only hurt
themselves and every other insured. It will cause EVERYONE'S health
insurance premiums to go up. If your only paying $400 a month in premium
consider yourself lucky. That's REALLY cheap. I have clients who pay
$2000 a month for family health insurance coverage. If your getting your
insurance through your employer, your only paying a small portion of the
premium. The employer is picking up the biggest chunk. So by trying to
cheat the insurance company, you cheat yourself, other people and your
employer. Insurance companies owe you NOTHING except to pay for
substantiated claims.
— Patty H.
January 25, 2002
You're complaining about the insurance company and all that they "put
you through", but the entity you're really trying to screw over is the
hospital and possibly your doctor. The insurance company isn't going to
pay twice so the hospital would be out the money. Don't you think you OWE
them the money once the service has been provided??? Why should they have
to wait for payments (if you'd even make payments) just so you can have
some extra money that isn't yours. Doesn't this say something aboutyour
"character"?? You OWE the doctor and you OWE the hospital. Is it
really that hard to do the right thing??
— [Anonymous]
January 25, 2002
Have you ever heard of KHARMA .......... Your success with this surgery I'm
sure is quite important to you, so why mess it up with being dishonest over
20,000.00 Sweetie it isn't worth it really, and if you can afford to repay
20,000.00 with monthly installments then why not take that money and save
it monthly for you and your husband to invest. KHARMA, YOU GET WHAT YOU
PUT OUT THAT'S KHARMA
— [Anonymous]
January 25, 2002
What on earth could you possibly be thinking? So what if the insurance
company took it's time and gave you grief, are you going to do the same
thing to your doctors and take your time paying them, giving them excuses?
Be thankful they approved you and be thankful your surgery turned out well.
Take the money and pay your bills, geez, I can't beleive that anyone would
even ask such a question!
— [Anonymous]
January 25, 2002
I asked a family member with lots of health insurance experience & she
says: first: have you had your surgery yet? It's unlikely the ins co would
pay benefits prior to services being rendered. Sounds to her like the
processor of your ins claim made a processing claim & assigned benefits
to you in error. "Frankly, I would count it as an audit error if any
of my processors did that." But, it is NOT insurance fraud for you to
take the money & use it however you want if they were stupid enough to
send the money to you rather than the providers. If the benefits are not
assigned to the provider, the ins co is bound to pay benefits to the
insured. It will, however, be your responsibility to pay off these bills
& once they discover you've received the check from the ins co, they
will be on you like flies on honey & not very willing to accept small
payments. But NOT insurance fraud.
— [Anonymous]
January 25, 2002
You'd put the hospital bill on your Discover card????? Try calculating
the $20,000 by the interest rate and see if that's worth getting into debt
over this. Whatever cash reward you get from your credit card wouldn't
make up for the money lost in interest.
— [Anonymous]
January 26, 2002
"you're free to take the money and use it however you want if they
were stupid enough to do something like that"???? What kind of a
stupid response is that?????? No, it's not about whether the insurance
company was stupid enough to send money to someone who has no scruples,
it's about a hospital and physician that DESERVES to be paid for services.
You're answer was as stupid and void of integrity as the original question.
Birds of a feather I suppose. There is only one right answer. PAY YOUR
BILLS UNLESS THE HOSPITAL ALLOWS YOU TO MAKE OTHER ARRANGEMENTS. It
doesn't take a genious to figure that one out, just someone with a little
bit a character!
— [Anonymous]
January 26, 2002
Does anyone else find it alittle bit strange and alot funny that as of now,
there have been 18 answers to this question and 15 of those have been
anonymous? For heavens sake folks, she just asked a question albeit a
controversial one at best. I am sure that she got the point but now, will
most likely not want to ask any more questions again or at least she will
never post with her name. I just can't understand all of the anonymous
stuff. I get flamed all the time for my answers but I have never posted
anonymously because, at some point, someone may want to email me or hear
more. Maybe, they need advice. Maybe "this" person is very
young. Maybe she is very poor. Maybe there are extenuating circumstances
that made her think, just for that one moment, that this money would help
alot. Maybe, she is recently postop and suffering from depression or a
hormonal imbalance that makes her think alittle differently than she
normally would. Who knows what is happening in someone elses life that
would make them contemplate this. I am sure that she got the gist of what
you are all trying to say to her but some seem so very adament and
sarcastic and yes, some even mean. Why? She only asked a question. Give
her the benefit of the doubt that for one day, she just wanted to feel rich
and compensated for all she went through and that tomorrow, she will see
things differently. I don't disagree with what you all had to say, I just
disagree with the manner that "some" said it and then wouldn't
even post a name to go with it.
— Barbara H.
January 26, 2002
I completely agree with Barbara (Hi Barbara) and I'll go on record one step
further about ANONYMOUS POSTING. I don't read it as it is utterly
meaningless and a waste of everyone's time. What kind of value should I
put on your opinion if you don't value yourself enough to put a screen name
on it? This is a community of Morbidly Obese or formerly Morbidly Obese
people who are trying to share information and help each other. If you
can't even share a first name, I see no value in anything that may proceed
"Anonymous." Never understood why Ms/Mr Anonymous bothers to
hang around as they have nothing to offer in the way of information or
empathy.
— Jill L.
January 26, 2002
I answered yesterday but thought I'd check back to see if anyone else had
anything to say. I admit that I was and still am anonymous mainly because
she was anonymous. I figured if she didn't want to reveal herself, then I
didn't want to be more revealing in regard to her question than she was so
I followed her lead and remained anonymous.
What concerned me the most about her question was the cavaliar, almost
presumptous attitude she took. Didn't sound like "depression" to
me. And who knows, she may be young, but she's married and if she's mature
enough to be married she should be mature enough to handle a simple money
issue. I understand having fleeting temptation. Many of us could
entertain the thought for an hour or two and dream of "wouldn't it be
nice if only". But you could tell she had put thought into it. She
and her husband talked about it, she posted a question wondering about the
legality of it to us. And even reading her second post she sounded almost
like she wouldn't screw her doctor over but wasn't as sure about the
hospital or insurance company. It sounded really presumptious to me. If
she had posted a question saying "help, I'm feeling really tempted to
keep this money but I know it's wrong" I think everyone would have
responded way, way differently. I dont' really blame anyone (me included)
for signing anonymously because it's a really hot issue and people
obviously really felt offended that someone could take such liberties that
aren't hers to take. And as someone said, it's us as insurance customers
and hospital patients who pay the price. They aren't going to be
"out" the money, they're going to raise costs / premiums and that
will affect all of us, just because someone got a little greedy. It would
be so nice if she'd write back and say "you're all right, I gave it
thought and of course I'll turn it over to the hospital" but I really
wonder if that's what she'll do. Greed can really be an ugly thing if we
let it take hold of us. I'm just hoping that she'll let gratitude instead
of greed win this fight. (It HAS been interesting to read all of the
various comments though!) A change from the usual "what can I eat,
how fast should I be losing, etc". It's just not very often that you
see someone post something so blatanly selfish. But, enough about this, I'm
headed back to the more "traditional" questions and I'll just
hope that she'll ultimately do the honest thing.
— [Anonymous]
January 26, 2002
Just to put my 2 cents worth in here. The bottom line is that you owe the
hospital the money. If it were me, I would pay them immediately because I
wouldn't want that big a debt hanging over my head when I had the money to
pay it. As for putting it on a credit card, I see no reason not to. I
re-financed my home several years ago to do some remodeling and to have
some expensive dental work. I put EVERYTHING on the card issued by my
credit union. Then I transferred the money (which I had deposited in my
savings account) to pay the credit card charges. I had a record of
everything I'd spent, I got to earn some interest on the money in my
savings account and I got major league points on the card. As for it being
insurance fraud, I don't see how. The insurance company has reimbursed you
for the surgery. Paying the hospital is now between you and the hospital,
unless the check should have been sent to the hospital in the first place.
— garw
January 26, 2002
Man, I was just purusing the questions and answers on a quiet Saturday
night and this one was more fun than anything that could have been on TV.
Really interesting discussion. How about if you just call the hospital and
ask them if you can set up a payment schedule (even though they may not be
open to it) or even calling your insurance company and ask them your
question (you wouldn't have to give them your name). I do agree with most
of the people that it is your responsibility to pay the debt if a payment
schedule can't be agreed upon between you and the medical establishment.
You're starting a whole new life, don't give yourself guilt and sleepless
nights, not to mention the stress of collectors on your back day and night,
just to have the extra cash. You're worth more than that. Start your new
life off right. You'll be glad you did in the long run.
— Laurie A.
January 26, 2002
It would be insurance fraud only if you collected the money without having
any surgery done, that IS fraud because you collected on a false claim.
It's more of a moral / ethical issue in my opinion. Well, perhaps legal
too if the bills were not paid and a lawsuit was initiated.
— [Anonymous]
January 26, 2002
I don't normally answer a lot of questions because I am new here. I had my
open surgery three weeks ago, so my statements and bills are coming in,
now. All I want to say is it was extemely hard for me to get my insurance
company to cover this surgery, and I am still waiting for the ball to drop
and have to start fighting with them again, and I have military insurance.
So if you are graced with such good insurance that they would send you the
money to pay off your bills HOW DARE YOU EVEN PLAY WITH THE THOUGHT OF
DOING ANYTHING ELSE BUT PAY YOUR BILL.This surgery is hard enough to get
insurance companies to approve. DO THE RIGHT THING AND START YOUR NEW LIFE
THE RIGHT WAY. THIS IS YOUR SECOND CHANCE AT A GREAT HEALTHY BODY AND
DON"T YOU WANT TO WALK WITH YOUR HEAD HIGH
— christie K.
February 2, 2002
Incidentally, my surgeon's office now requires a $500 deposit/payment for
the initial consult, because they had been accepting just an insurance
copay (or maybe just a lesser amount; I'm not entirely clear on that), and
not getting paid the rest. When they'd contact the insurance companies,
they'd be told that the money had been sent directly to the patient.
$500 is a lot to come up with. It's a little sad that, because other
people are dishonest, the rest of us have to suffer. Now, I realize that
your comment about your husband was just a joke, and that would be
*exactly* my response to begin with *grin*, but I don't see any problem
with, as long as your intention is to pay the hospital, to see if they'll
allow payments. If not, just pay 'em. If they will, maybe pay them $10,000
and invest the other half?
— Elizabeth W.
February 2, 2002
WOW! I didn't know there were insurance companies that still sent the
payment to the patient. My opinion is that you should pay the bills
immediately. The money isn't really yours. It's to pay the bills. If the
hospital finds out you've been paid they will come after you big time for
the money that is rightfuly theirs. I don't see anything wrong with paying
for it with your Discover Card and then paying off the balance on the card
with the check from the insurance company. I would be afraid of trying to
invest any of the money with the way things are with the stock market right
now. Every time I see one of my husband's or my retirement account
statements I'm amazed at how much we're losing instead of saving for our
retirement.
— georgiacarol
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