Question:
I just got a check from my insurance company for all my surgery bills,

The check was made out to me in an amount over 20000 dollars, my husband joking says lets take the money and run, I was wondering if I could cash it and invest the money short term and just make payments on the hospital bills. If anyone has any opinions on this or knows any laws pertaining to this please share them with me!    — [Anonymous] (posted on January 24, 2002)


January 24, 2002
Yeah, it's called theft, and might even be considered fraud, even if you pay it afterwards. Besides which, it would be almost impossible to invest it safely and get a good return on the money in a short period of time. Anything you would invest in would have to be high risk which gives the potential of losing all or part of your original investment.
   — [Anonymous]

January 24, 2002
Most hospitals require payment upfront and are in communication with the insurance company. Once they learn you have the cash from the insurance company ~ it's pretty unlikely they'd settle for payments . . .too risky for them. The insurance company gave you the money for the surgery ~ not as an investment. Probably a better idea to be grateful they're covering the costs of the surgery than to try to make money off of their money! (smile)
   — [Anonymous]

January 24, 2002
I work for an insurance company. Believe me, it's a very bad idea. That's one reason insurance companies don't like to give customers a check directly, there's too much temptation to do the wrong thing. We see it all the time (people given money from insurance companies to repair vehicles or homes and they cash the check and never do the repair then complain when they can't collect on the next claim. People amaze me sometimes. Even reading posts on this site, people are happy that that insurance covers the surgery then grumble and complain if they don't cover a tummy tuck. Amazing.
   — [Anonymous]

January 24, 2002
Don't do it. Be honest. You trusted your surgeon with your life. He's trusting you to just pay your bill. It sounds like a very bad idea.
   — Goldilauxx B.

January 24, 2002
I am the original poster and I thank everyone for thier opinions, and I would never not pay my bills exspecially to my surgeon I am forever grateful to him, but I did spend the past six months fighting my insurance and on the phone with them for hours at a time, being told after being precertified that they wouldn't pay for one reason or another, it is nice to know that I did find a way to be compensated for that if I pay my hospital bill with my discover card I get cash rewards I see nothing at all dishonest about that and it sure makes up for all the calls and tears the insurance company caused me. I think maybe if the insurance companies were a little kinder with obesity patients and not always denying everything for every little reason people wouldnt want to take advantage of them I pay a lot for my insurance $400 a month and being put thru what they put me thru wasnt fair.
   — [Anonymous]

January 25, 2002
Wow. What a post to read. It sounds like you think people / your insurance company "owes" you. You need to take responsibility for your own life. No one owes you a thing. Insurance companies can be difficult but it's a business and the surgery IS expensive. They have a right to turn it down if it doesn't meet their criteria. You don't have a RIGHT to have the surgery on someone else's dime. Luckily, you found a way to get it covered and I'm wondering how ethically /honestly you received the approval. But you did. Just be thankful and don't plan on how you can scam the insurance company. You talked about how unfair they were to you and how many tears you shed. The weight is our problem not theirs. They handed you over $20,000. You seem very ungrateful. If you have read various posts, you can see how supportive everyone is, yet you can see all the disapproval you've received, you should give that some thought. It says something.
   — [Anonymous]

January 25, 2002
I have to tell you I too would have considered cashing that check!! That is a lot of money - it would pay a lot of bills off with higher interest rates than what the doctor would probably charge. Yeah, it is probably not right and probably illegal in some way but I would DEFINITELY be tempted. I don't think you should feel too bad for comtemplating it - I think a lot of us would. My motto - let your conscience be your guide. I also don't feel it is right for others to slam you for just asking for opinions.
   — [Anonymous]

January 25, 2002
HI, I FEEL FOR YOU IN RESPECT THAT YOU WERE MADE UPSET BY YOUR INS COMPANY, BUT IN NO WAY DO THEY OWE YOU ANYTHING. REGARDLESS OF WHAT HASSLES YOU WERE GIVEN,YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CASH THE CHECK AND MAKE ARRANGEMENTS. YOU MAY PAY ALOT NOW FOR INS, BUT HAVE THEM FIND OUT WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND YOU MAY NEVER GET INSURANCE , EVER.. IT'S CALLED FRAUD, DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU DIFFERENT. EVEN IF YOU EVENTUALLY PAY YOUR HOSPITAL AND DOCTOR OFF, YOU'VE TAKEN FUNDS THAT DO NOT BELONG TO YOU. IT IS NOT WORTH IT. 20,000 IS NOT WORTH IT. YOU THINK YOU HAD HEARTACHE WITH THE APPROVAL, CASH THE CHECK, AND DO NOT PAY THEM OFF ASAP, AND YOU HAVEN'T SEEN HASSLES. I'VE WORKED IN INSURANCE FOR YEARS, AND THEY DO NOT MESS AROUND. THEY KEEP IN CONTACT WITH THE DOCTOR TO SEE IF HE HAS BEEN PAID. IF THEY FIND OUT PAYMENTS ARE BEING MADE, THEY'LL BE AT YOUR DOORSTEP INVESTIGATING.
   — [Anonymous]

January 25, 2002
Amen to that! (I responded earlier and thought I'd check back. I see there's been a lot of action!)
   — [Anonymous]

January 25, 2002
My first question is - Did the insurance company pay the providers directly AND then also give you a check for the $20,000? If they did, you are committing insurance fraud if you cash the check and keep it. It is punishable by a fine and possible jail term. My second question - If the insurance company did NOT pay the providers and they just paid you the $20,000 instead, your going to get ALL the bills from the hospital, surgeon, etc and that $20,000 is to pay all those bills. Then it really doesn't matter what you do with the money. BTW, people who think they can screw insurance companies over only hurt themselves and every other insured. It will cause EVERYONE'S health insurance premiums to go up. If your only paying $400 a month in premium consider yourself lucky. That's REALLY cheap. I have clients who pay $2000 a month for family health insurance coverage. If your getting your insurance through your employer, your only paying a small portion of the premium. The employer is picking up the biggest chunk. So by trying to cheat the insurance company, you cheat yourself, other people and your employer. Insurance companies owe you NOTHING except to pay for substantiated claims.
   — Patty H.

January 25, 2002
You're complaining about the insurance company and all that they "put you through", but the entity you're really trying to screw over is the hospital and possibly your doctor. The insurance company isn't going to pay twice so the hospital would be out the money. Don't you think you OWE them the money once the service has been provided??? Why should they have to wait for payments (if you'd even make payments) just so you can have some extra money that isn't yours. Doesn't this say something aboutyour "character"?? You OWE the doctor and you OWE the hospital. Is it really that hard to do the right thing??
   — [Anonymous]

January 25, 2002
Have you ever heard of KHARMA .......... Your success with this surgery I'm sure is quite important to you, so why mess it up with being dishonest over 20,000.00 Sweetie it isn't worth it really, and if you can afford to repay 20,000.00 with monthly installments then why not take that money and save it monthly for you and your husband to invest. KHARMA, YOU GET WHAT YOU PUT OUT THAT'S KHARMA
   — [Anonymous]

January 25, 2002
What on earth could you possibly be thinking? So what if the insurance company took it's time and gave you grief, are you going to do the same thing to your doctors and take your time paying them, giving them excuses? Be thankful they approved you and be thankful your surgery turned out well. Take the money and pay your bills, geez, I can't beleive that anyone would even ask such a question!
   — [Anonymous]

January 25, 2002
I asked a family member with lots of health insurance experience & she says: first: have you had your surgery yet? It's unlikely the ins co would pay benefits prior to services being rendered. Sounds to her like the processor of your ins claim made a processing claim & assigned benefits to you in error. "Frankly, I would count it as an audit error if any of my processors did that." But, it is NOT insurance fraud for you to take the money & use it however you want if they were stupid enough to send the money to you rather than the providers. If the benefits are not assigned to the provider, the ins co is bound to pay benefits to the insured. It will, however, be your responsibility to pay off these bills & once they discover you've received the check from the ins co, they will be on you like flies on honey & not very willing to accept small payments. But NOT insurance fraud.
   — [Anonymous]

January 25, 2002
You'd put the hospital bill on your Discover card????? Try calculating the $20,000 by the interest rate and see if that's worth getting into debt over this. Whatever cash reward you get from your credit card wouldn't make up for the money lost in interest.
   — [Anonymous]

January 26, 2002
"you're free to take the money and use it however you want if they were stupid enough to do something like that"???? What kind of a stupid response is that?????? No, it's not about whether the insurance company was stupid enough to send money to someone who has no scruples, it's about a hospital and physician that DESERVES to be paid for services. You're answer was as stupid and void of integrity as the original question. Birds of a feather I suppose. There is only one right answer. PAY YOUR BILLS UNLESS THE HOSPITAL ALLOWS YOU TO MAKE OTHER ARRANGEMENTS. It doesn't take a genious to figure that one out, just someone with a little bit a character!
   — [Anonymous]

January 26, 2002
Does anyone else find it alittle bit strange and alot funny that as of now, there have been 18 answers to this question and 15 of those have been anonymous? For heavens sake folks, she just asked a question albeit a controversial one at best. I am sure that she got the point but now, will most likely not want to ask any more questions again or at least she will never post with her name. I just can't understand all of the anonymous stuff. I get flamed all the time for my answers but I have never posted anonymously because, at some point, someone may want to email me or hear more. Maybe, they need advice. Maybe "this" person is very young. Maybe she is very poor. Maybe there are extenuating circumstances that made her think, just for that one moment, that this money would help alot. Maybe, she is recently postop and suffering from depression or a hormonal imbalance that makes her think alittle differently than she normally would. Who knows what is happening in someone elses life that would make them contemplate this. I am sure that she got the gist of what you are all trying to say to her but some seem so very adament and sarcastic and yes, some even mean. Why? She only asked a question. Give her the benefit of the doubt that for one day, she just wanted to feel rich and compensated for all she went through and that tomorrow, she will see things differently. I don't disagree with what you all had to say, I just disagree with the manner that "some" said it and then wouldn't even post a name to go with it.
   — Barbara H.

January 26, 2002
I completely agree with Barbara (Hi Barbara) and I'll go on record one step further about ANONYMOUS POSTING. I don't read it as it is utterly meaningless and a waste of everyone's time. What kind of value should I put on your opinion if you don't value yourself enough to put a screen name on it? This is a community of Morbidly Obese or formerly Morbidly Obese people who are trying to share information and help each other. If you can't even share a first name, I see no value in anything that may proceed "Anonymous." Never understood why Ms/Mr Anonymous bothers to hang around as they have nothing to offer in the way of information or empathy.
   — Jill L.

January 26, 2002
I answered yesterday but thought I'd check back to see if anyone else had anything to say. I admit that I was and still am anonymous mainly because she was anonymous. I figured if she didn't want to reveal herself, then I didn't want to be more revealing in regard to her question than she was so I followed her lead and remained anonymous. What concerned me the most about her question was the cavaliar, almost presumptous attitude she took. Didn't sound like "depression" to me. And who knows, she may be young, but she's married and if she's mature enough to be married she should be mature enough to handle a simple money issue. I understand having fleeting temptation. Many of us could entertain the thought for an hour or two and dream of "wouldn't it be nice if only". But you could tell she had put thought into it. She and her husband talked about it, she posted a question wondering about the legality of it to us. And even reading her second post she sounded almost like she wouldn't screw her doctor over but wasn't as sure about the hospital or insurance company. It sounded really presumptious to me. If she had posted a question saying "help, I'm feeling really tempted to keep this money but I know it's wrong" I think everyone would have responded way, way differently. I dont' really blame anyone (me included) for signing anonymously because it's a really hot issue and people obviously really felt offended that someone could take such liberties that aren't hers to take. And as someone said, it's us as insurance customers and hospital patients who pay the price. They aren't going to be "out" the money, they're going to raise costs / premiums and that will affect all of us, just because someone got a little greedy. It would be so nice if she'd write back and say "you're all right, I gave it thought and of course I'll turn it over to the hospital" but I really wonder if that's what she'll do. Greed can really be an ugly thing if we let it take hold of us. I'm just hoping that she'll let gratitude instead of greed win this fight. (It HAS been interesting to read all of the various comments though!) A change from the usual "what can I eat, how fast should I be losing, etc". It's just not very often that you see someone post something so blatanly selfish. But, enough about this, I'm headed back to the more "traditional" questions and I'll just hope that she'll ultimately do the honest thing.
   — [Anonymous]

January 26, 2002
Just to put my 2 cents worth in here. The bottom line is that you owe the hospital the money. If it were me, I would pay them immediately because I wouldn't want that big a debt hanging over my head when I had the money to pay it. As for putting it on a credit card, I see no reason not to. I re-financed my home several years ago to do some remodeling and to have some expensive dental work. I put EVERYTHING on the card issued by my credit union. Then I transferred the money (which I had deposited in my savings account) to pay the credit card charges. I had a record of everything I'd spent, I got to earn some interest on the money in my savings account and I got major league points on the card. As for it being insurance fraud, I don't see how. The insurance company has reimbursed you for the surgery. Paying the hospital is now between you and the hospital, unless the check should have been sent to the hospital in the first place.
   — garw

January 26, 2002
Man, I was just purusing the questions and answers on a quiet Saturday night and this one was more fun than anything that could have been on TV. Really interesting discussion. How about if you just call the hospital and ask them if you can set up a payment schedule (even though they may not be open to it) or even calling your insurance company and ask them your question (you wouldn't have to give them your name). I do agree with most of the people that it is your responsibility to pay the debt if a payment schedule can't be agreed upon between you and the medical establishment. You're starting a whole new life, don't give yourself guilt and sleepless nights, not to mention the stress of collectors on your back day and night, just to have the extra cash. You're worth more than that. Start your new life off right. You'll be glad you did in the long run.
   — Laurie A.

January 26, 2002
It would be insurance fraud only if you collected the money without having any surgery done, that IS fraud because you collected on a false claim. It's more of a moral / ethical issue in my opinion. Well, perhaps legal too if the bills were not paid and a lawsuit was initiated.
   — [Anonymous]

January 26, 2002
I don't normally answer a lot of questions because I am new here. I had my open surgery three weeks ago, so my statements and bills are coming in, now. All I want to say is it was extemely hard for me to get my insurance company to cover this surgery, and I am still waiting for the ball to drop and have to start fighting with them again, and I have military insurance. So if you are graced with such good insurance that they would send you the money to pay off your bills HOW DARE YOU EVEN PLAY WITH THE THOUGHT OF DOING ANYTHING ELSE BUT PAY YOUR BILL.This surgery is hard enough to get insurance companies to approve. DO THE RIGHT THING AND START YOUR NEW LIFE THE RIGHT WAY. THIS IS YOUR SECOND CHANCE AT A GREAT HEALTHY BODY AND DON"T YOU WANT TO WALK WITH YOUR HEAD HIGH
   — christie K.

February 2, 2002
Incidentally, my surgeon's office now requires a $500 deposit/payment for the initial consult, because they had been accepting just an insurance copay (or maybe just a lesser amount; I'm not entirely clear on that), and not getting paid the rest. When they'd contact the insurance companies, they'd be told that the money had been sent directly to the patient. $500 is a lot to come up with. It's a little sad that, because other people are dishonest, the rest of us have to suffer. Now, I realize that your comment about your husband was just a joke, and that would be *exactly* my response to begin with *grin*, but I don't see any problem with, as long as your intention is to pay the hospital, to see if they'll allow payments. If not, just pay 'em. If they will, maybe pay them $10,000 and invest the other half?
   — Elizabeth W.

February 2, 2002
WOW! I didn't know there were insurance companies that still sent the payment to the patient. My opinion is that you should pay the bills immediately. The money isn't really yours. It's to pay the bills. If the hospital finds out you've been paid they will come after you big time for the money that is rightfuly theirs. I don't see anything wrong with paying for it with your Discover Card and then paying off the balance on the card with the check from the insurance company. I would be afraid of trying to invest any of the money with the way things are with the stock market right now. Every time I see one of my husband's or my retirement account statements I'm amazed at how much we're losing instead of saving for our retirement.
   — georgiacarol




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