Question:
My employer will write me up for being off for surgery? What are my rights?
I just started a new job 2 months ago. My workplace has a VERY STRICT sick & calling off policy. If you call off on three seperate occasions including surgery. It is an occurance and you'll lose your job!! I can get short term disability but I am not eligable for FMLA yet. I have all ready had to call off once due to the stomach flu & got a verbal notice. If I take off for my surgery even with a DRS. note I will get written up & it will prevent me from being promoted or possibly lose my job no matter what the surgery is. I don't think it's right or legal for that matter! Does anyone know what I can do or if this is legal? Please, any help or suggestions would be appreciated!! I've all ready talked with HR & was basically told that is just their policy. Take it or leave it! I'm between a rock & a hard place & very frustrated! — [Anonymous] (posted on January 3, 2002)
January 3, 2002
I believe that this strict policy is illegal or at the very least highly
questionable. I would immediately call your BOLI office (bureau of labor
and industries) and report your employer for their inhumane policies.
Where is their 'policy' written--get a written copy of the policy and send
a copy to BOLI. This just doesn't seem right. Get another job that treats
employees as humans.
— jenn2002
January 3, 2002
It's hard to say if this is legal or not without knowing the size of your
company. Smaller companies don't have to abide by the same rules of larger
ones. They may be within your rights. But seriously, do you want to work
for a company so uncaring of their employees?
— Goldilauxx B.
January 3, 2002
Well your HEALTH is more important than ANY job! In ill health you cant be
a good worker. Once your recovered I would find a NEW job, your employer is
a poor one. Call you local wage and hour office, to see what your rights
are. Certinally if you had a appendectomy they wouldnt expect you at work
the next morning?
— bob-haller
January 3, 2002
I have to agree with the other posters here... why would you want to
continue working at such an uncaring place? It can't be the "last
resort" in your options of jobs... I would stick it out as long as you
can and then once you are completely mended and feeling better I would
start looking for another job. I just hope and pray you don't have any
complications that would cause you to take time off to see your surgeon or
worse yet land you back in the hospital! Before I had the surgery I was
sure I would be back on my feet and back to work within a few weeks... but
due to all the complications I have had (and none of them were predicted
before hand) I have still not returned and I am almost 5 months post op.
Fortunately for us, we don't need my income to survive... mine was all play
money anyways. Take care of your health first, then find the job of your
dreams!!! You deserve to be a healthy vibrant person and the policies of
your work should not stand in your way. Besides... you will have enough on
your mind with the surgery and concentrating on getting better, why would
you want the added stress of worrying about your employer and your job
position on top of it? Take care and I really hope everything works out
for you!!!
— Kellie Jo B.
January 3, 2002
My guess is you work for one of the regional telephone companies, and
unfortunately, their policies, though outrageous are relatively airtight.
The unions have had trouble breaking those policies for years. And
unfortunately, had I had my surgery when I worked for them, I probably
would have been fired. I was out chronically with a number of medical
problems, including herniated disks in my lower back, constant bronchitis
and so on. Fortunately, I was able to find a better job, with a great
benefits, especially for sick time. As for you, if you are going to have
this surgery, wait until you are eligible under FMLA, because then you have
much better protection and I don't believe they can fire you when you
return. Good luck!
— [Anonymous]
January 3, 2002
OK, at the risk of being unpopular, I agree with your employer. You
haven't even been there 90 days and already you are asking for 4 weeks off
for basically an elective surgery. From their perspective, why are we
bothering to train this person? Absenteeism is a problem and must be dealt
with consistently. I do not perceive their policy as unfair (I ran HR for
a while). When I wanted surgery, I was self employed and had no insurance.
I went to work for a friend and got insurance after 90 days. To be fair
to the company, I worked at my job for a year, then had my surgery. Now
interestingly, I was hospitalized urgently for 10 days, exactly on my 90th
day of employment for cellulitis in my leg, and had to take an additional 4
days off after being hospitalized. But, because of my work habits and
ethics demonstrated in the first 90 days, I was past my probationary period
and it was not a problem. I strongly suggest that you have lived this way
for a while, at least get 6 months in on the job before you start talking
about taking a month off, for any reason. Good Luck!
— merri B.
January 4, 2002
Let them fire you. Who wants to work for a company that treats their
employees like that. A good employer has a certain amount of Compassion
that allows for these type of things to occur, and that in turn lowers
their attrition rate, because people genuinely like to work for those type
of companies. Your company only looks at the bottom line, and not the
entire picture. The last poster sounds like your typical company
person(worked for HR), of course they see the company as the victim, since
you have only worked there 2 months,not the full 90 days(oooh this is a
Cardinal Sin!). I'd like to say "Damn the man"! Down with
cumbersome rudimentary policies meant to hold everyone down as if we were
in some totalitarian form of government! And to say this surgery is
elective is an Oxymoron. Sure on paper it is considered elective surgery,
but some people have to have this surgery to save their lives! Obesity
surgery is not for vanity, it is for survival at it's most basic! Large
companies have got to start using a little more compassion in their
judgements, or they will end up only losing in the end. I am sorry for the
rant, but I have seen this scenario too many times on this forum, and it
pisses me off when someone defends a corporation for making "business
descisions". I have had too many jobs where it is left up to the
manager to decide your fate, and the managers love to manage by revenge
rather than compassion, and that is always a recipe for disaster.
Thank you for taking the time to read my rant.
— sbinkerd1
January 4, 2002
I think Merrie might want to change her statement to "what your
company may perceive as an "elective" surgery." We all know
that WLS for morbid obesity isn't an elective surgery, but a necessary one.
— [Anonymous]
January 4, 2002
I believe we have what we call the Family Leave Medical Act which I think
Bill Clinton put into effect. It may be illegal for your employer to fire
you because of this. You might want to check this out.
— Cathy J.
January 4, 2002
This sounds like the kind of policy VERIZON has! They are taking the FMLA
and changing it to suit their own needs. Is this legal? They fire people
for going to the bathroom instead of being on the phone with customers!
Companies with these types of policies disgust me. It's as if employees
are their slaves. I recommend to anyone who works for this type of company
to start looking for another job. Lincoln freed the slaves. Companies are
getting by with terrible injustices to employees.
— [Anonymous]
January 4, 2002
Being in management, I have to agree with your employer, you have not been
there long enough to ask for time off. They are putting time into you, and
they want it back. If you read the FMLA, their are guidelines, and it can
apply to you, only when you have earned the time. Now if there was a death
in the family , then you should be able to leave and come back without
being written up, but for non life threatening surgery, you should wait
until you are there at least 6 months. But you have an option here,
you've only been there two weeks, so quit. Give two weeks notice, don;t
burn your bridges, and then when you've had your surgery, ask to see if you
can come back. It would better to quit with a two week notice then to be
written up an canned.
— [Anonymous]
January 4, 2002
Ok, let's start with clearing up the notions about the Family Medical Leave
Act. EMPLOYEE ELIGIBILITY
To be eligible for FMLA benefits, an employee must:(1) work for a covered
employer; (2) have worked for the employer for a total of 12 months; (3)
have worked at least 1,250 hours over the previous 12 months; and (4) work
at a location in the United States or in any territory or possession of the
United States where at least 50 employees are employed by the employer
within 75 miles.
Therefore the FMLA doesn't apply here because the person has only been on
the job for 2 months. And I DO mean 'elective surgery', because it is a
medical term, not a business one. It means any surgery that can be
scheduled at the convenience of the doctor and/or patient as opposed to
emergent or urgent surgery which must be performed in order to prevent
impending death. And, as most of you know, if you are that close to death,
a surgeon will not perform WLS surgery on you, no matter how fat you are.
Indeed, there are some docs that will not perform WLS over a certain
weight. So to you ranters and ravers, consider that if business was run
the way you would like, there would be no business to run. If you don't
believe me, get the guts to go self-employed sometime and let's see how you
change your tune. Refusing to post anonymously, I remain sincerely yours,
— merri B.
January 4, 2002
On the other hand, if you get canned you could always take unemployment,
right?
— [Anonymous]
January 4, 2002
Wishing I was as brave as Merri - I have chosen, however to post
anonymously. (I hate to get flamed!!) Anyway - I have two opinions here.
The first is that Merri is correct - as much as I wish we lived in a
perfect world and could accomodate our employees at the drop of a hat - we
can't. It's not reasonable. On a national average it costs approximately
$1600.00 to train a new employee with some positions obviously costing more
and others less. It is a bit presumptuous to expect an employer to invest
money in your training and then to expect them to hire (and train) a temp
to replace you or to absorb your duties themselves until you return after
you've only worked there 2 months. As morbidly obese people we've been
discriminated against for so long that we often forget that we have to be
fair too. Were I your employer I could not be understanding of your
needing medical leave so soon after hiring you - I hope that doesn't offend
you. My second opinion is this - in spite of the fact that I think a
request for medical leave is unreasonable after only two months of
employment, your employers sound entirely to strict for my taste. The way
I see it - I'm a grown person and I know what has to be accomplished during
a day. I don't need someone standing over me and treating my like an
infant. I find that a slave-like environment is actually counter
productive. Surely you could find a better work environment and stay there
several months and then proceed with surgery. Before anyone flames me - I
know what it's like to have to wait - I waited two years. We just have to
be reasonable and step back and look at this from all angles. We can thank
years and years of lazy employees and slackers for the strict conditions we
have to endure now. Still, I wouldn't work in the conditions you do. Do I
sound like a mess of conflicting emotions? I don't mean to. Keep your
chin up - you'll figure out the right thing to do. I hope everything goes
well for you. Sorry that I'm not as brave as Merri - just call me Anon.
— [Anonymous]
January 4, 2002
I don't know what your legal rights are. However, I don't believe that WLS
is considered elective surgery. Your insurance does not consider it
elective, or they would not cover the surgery. It is considered
"medically necessary". If you quit, will you lose the insurance
coverage? How long the period last? In other words, I doubt that they can
fire you if you call in sick three times in 10 years ! If you wait until 6
months, can you schedule surgery then? Or can you wait until you've been
there 1 year, and then the FMLA may cover you? Anyway, be careful and pick
you timing correctly. Also, if you haven't told them the type of surgery,
DON'T. Just tell them abdominal surgery and your surgeon can write a note
that says this. And, BTW, I have been a manager and an employer, and that
policy STINKS! I got good employees, and I kept good employees, because I
didn't do things like this to them!!! At one point, I had people lined up
wanting transfers to my department because I treated them well.
— Kathy J.
January 6, 2002
What a dilemma! I do know however that there are more accommodating
companies out there. My company will let an employee take sick leave
(emergency, maternity, surgical) immediately after the official hire date
(in fact, a gal in my department was hired and immediately received eight
weeks of maternity leave; her 'first' day at work was when the baby was
three months old--she was hired when she was 8 months pregnant, took one
month to leave here current job and then have the baby). I know it's
illegal to NOT hire someone who is pregnant, and I would think it is
illegal to not hire someone who is morbidly obese too, but we all know that
this happens. Well, the company will have the last word in the courts I'm
sure, so if you really need and want this surgery, I can only recommend you
search for another employer. You might want to think about the future too;
will you need a tummy tuck or other post-WLS surgeries? Does your
employer's insurance cover this? Will you get time off for this? I have
worked for companies in the past that don't care about their employees at
all; it sounds like your company doesn't either. My best advice would be to
look for a more caring company with a better management-employee
relationship; better health-care insurance and better sick-leave policies.
I know how terrible looking for a new job is so I don't want to upset you
in saying this. There are better companies out there!!! I wish you the best
of luck!!!
— [Anonymous]
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