Wednesday, January 23, 2019

"For me surgery was a great answer for losing the weight, but it was not the answer for keeping it off."

BINGO BINGO BINGO

You said what I was trying to think I meant but couldn't come up with the words. Yes yes yes.

In all honesty, I think that might be true of any diet I find.

It did solve my symptom. And some of my issues began because of my symptoms. (Like I think trying to lose weight and failing continuously had a very negative impact on my relationship with food. Getting an 8.5 year sabbatical from dealing with diets has helped that). But ultimately you're so right about needing a bigger reason and core.

I'm starting to realize I think my issue has to do with giving food to much love power. For example, why does it OFFEND me when someone is on a keto diet and might want to skip out or bring their own food? Or why am I (still) so hung up on my aunt being vegan. Sure, it's a little inconvenient. But really nbd for the limited amount it actually affects me. But I think it feels like they're rejecting a showing of love. I definitely came to equate food with love. I'm not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg. And I don't know to what extent I change change that strongly-held feeling. Having a limited capacity (and definitely not being able to eat too many sweets at once) has really helped. but even nowadays, if I know someone made something homemade, and let's say they left it after a party...I feel bad if I don't eat it.

Bonnie, I think you're onto something there. I say that because your equation of specific foods in specific situations with love, good manners, etc. and the rejection of specific foods in specific situations as disregard, bad manners, etc. are things I don't feel -- at least not as strongly as you seem to. And if I haven't captured accurately what you were saying, please do correct me!

Your comments above made me wonder (for the first time) if your strong feelings about the deep meanings and values (to you) of food might be quite different than mine, for instance, because you had WLS at such a young age compared to me (I was 68 when I had WLS).

By 68, I had eaten, eaten, eaten a whole lotta food. Good food, junk food, healthy food, food that was horrifically bad for me, food that I savored and enjoyed, food that I ate mindlessly and barely tasted while watching television. In many ways, I had been satiated by all that eating and all that food.

But you had so many fewer decades of eating as much as you could eat than I did.

And then, of course, there's the fact that we grew up in very different times, were probably raised in different ways, and had access to quite different foods when we were young, which is when (I think) people imprint very strongly on the foods available to them, as well as those foods that are rare or even forbidden.

Also, as Devon was saying, the foods we eat as children come with rules laid down about those foods, as well as hurtful comments made about what and how we're eating and how we look as a result of what and how we're eating.

All that makes me wonder if somewhere in all that is a "theory of everything" about human beings' relationships with food -- a multivariate equation of childhood influences that sums out to our adult, lifelong attitudes about food and eating behaviors.

I think you totally get what I was saying! I do hope that having WLS at a younger age limited some of the negative experiences and relationships I have with food. That being said, I think having grown up fat from childhood also makes a person's relationship with food a little different. I cannot speak to your all's experience (in fact, come to think of it I don't even know if some of you guys were in the growing up overweight camp I was), but for example my husband's ex wife (who also had WLS) was always slightly pudgy, but wasn't ever really heavy until after highschool. I would imagine that is a very different experience. I guess I came up to totally identify with being a "fat kid." I mean, that seemed to consume my identity. And not entirely in a bad way, I might add. I actually think it made me feel like I needed to overcompensate in other areas.

So my theory on the food that was available, etc. is that I didn't have a lot of friends growing up. I went to my grandparent's house every day after school and that's where she would make me homemade goodies. (An aside: I actually don't think it was that unhealthy, calorically-speaking, and I never thought I consumed too many calories. She's make things like cook and serve pudding with bananas, etc., and after having an opportunity to observe the skittles and slushies and cheese fries my step kids eat galore, I'm even more convinced of this fact!) But I think that's where the whole food=love equation became ingrained in my brain. It was so pleasing that I began cooking for my family at about 13. For me, that was also a showing of love.

Amazingly, I'm way less "soup nazi!" on my food now. I'm ashamed to admit I used to pretty much yell at my own dad for not eating dinners I made! But I can openly admit that I still have a big control issue with food.

I'm sure there has to be some middle ground, right? It sounds like you very much love food too (I'm so excited about your NOLA details!). I love food and completely reject the idea that food is only fuel. I also think it's very much a core of who I am to cook for the people I love. But I'm hoping they don't have to be one or the other. Plenty of people cook and don't mind if someone doesn't clean their plate. Plenty of people cook for their families and aren't fat. I just have to find my own balance.

And finding other outlets has probably been what's helped me loosen my reigns (which are still tight!). so I guess we can forge new habits! Back to your original point, probably the fact that I wasn't overweight as long helps in breaking those habits. Maybe?

Very interesting! Thanks for the additional information.

One of the MOST valuable aspects of this group is that we are able to verbalize and share our unique unique experiences and relationships with food. That helps me appreciate the great variance among those of us who were overweight and obese prior to WLS.

And FTR, I was not overweight until I was seven years old. I'll tell my story later ... I'm about to get dolled up for a great restaurant experience tonight with my friends.

Also FTR, I still really do enjoy food. I'm just more committed since WLS to eating healthier foods than I used to and splurging on less healthy foods only when they're really delicious. That's not to say I don't still fall prey to food-comforting myself sometimes, but not nearly as often as I used to! That's been a major victory for me and made possible by the greater self-control that WLS has helped me develop and to the reasons I had for having WLS, which are very similar to the ones Shel described above: recovered mobility, independence, and health.

I think very, very few people truly view food as fuel 100% of the time. I think most of us have a love affair of some degree with food. I, too, have used and still do use food as an expression of love. I think this is a perfectly normal thing to do. The breaking of bread and sharing of food is steeped in millennia of anthropological culture. How many of us have NOT delighted over the planning of a truly delicious meal for someone we love? I still do it. When I really want to please Ron, I will cook something I know he loves and will savor and will appreciate. It is most certainly a way to express love for someone.

I also think food is sensual. People use food to stir up sensations of pleasure. Flavors, textures and aroma of food work wonders on our senses. Food can be seductive.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. However, like you, I think a level of acceptable moderation must be found. I can avow that sugar is a problematic food for me - especially refined sugar. I could choose to abstain from sugar forever, and who knows, maybe someday I will. Yet, right now, that does not seem reasonable for me.

Instead I want to be a person who has dessert occasionally. I want to be a person for whom sweets are special occasion foods, not regularly eaten. Honestly, I don't go a day without some kind of refined sugar intake. It would be nice to learn to moderate the consumption of eating sweets to a level that is comfortable for me. I remember Shel writing that her "normal" food friends would most likely consider my intake a lot on a daily basis. That helped me look into what level of consumption would be reasonable for me. I still don't know what's "reasonable", but what I did learn is that somewhere along the way, the development of reasonable, normal adult eating never happened for me. I was so preoccupied with weight and losing that I never, ever gained those adult skills of logical, moderated, and rational eating. So my idea of what is normal eating of treats is very adolescent. It is arrested development for lack of a better phrase. I still want to be the teen with a super high metabolism that can eat anything and still stay lean and mean because I was NEVER that teenager!

Hopefully you sweated the nasties out Peps

Feel better soon

Hi all!! After a long day of flying we're in Rio! And holy mother above it's hot and humid here. We walked down Copacabana beach to Ipanema this morning. Several miles there and back sweating like I have never sweat before. Burning my eyes, soaking my clothes. I thought I took pictures, but apparently there was user error and they aren't there. Argh. They weren't masterpieces by any means but pretty shots of the cliffy hills surrounding the water.

One thing that really stands out is how accepting people are of their bodies and how they look. And it ALL hangs out everywhere. I don't have that kind of bravery in me, but clearly it's bred into the people here.

LOVE spending time with my family. They are hilarious. But they are going to the pool in about 20 minutes to hang out and drink, and I have already showered once and sweat through an outfit and the feels like temp is currently 106 (it's 91) at nearly 5 with no shade around. I need to be careful not to whine too much about the heat. Hopefully it gets better on the ship. I know it cools off slightly as we head south...

Anyway, off to think about what too wear next. I sense more sweat and laundry in my future!

Sorry it's so hot! We had a similar experience when we went to Riviera Maya a few years ago and the extreme heat/humidity took us by surprise. I think you acclimate somewhat in a few days but it can be awfully uncomfortable for those of us who sweat. I do and have been told that's more healthy but it can be damn uncomfortable.

Viva la difference! Here in NOLA it's in the 60s and raining buckets.

Your stroll down Copacabana sounds so picturesque. If your relatives took pix, send us one/some of theirs. :)

I guess you know they will do your laundry on the ship, eh? :)

They have self-service laundry on every level!