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Saturday, January 20, 2018

momsy55
on 1/20/18 10:55 am - ME

Take care of that sore throat Shel. Hope it's just one of those passing things

Sleep is at times difficult for me too. I have found that essential oils, if I remember to use them, can help, at least some of the time. I do a mix of lavender and citrus in a diffuser, as I'm not keen on the smell of lavender by itself. I also have a blend called Serenity by D'Oterra, though I'm not sure what the mix is. I sometimes just put a few drops of one or two of the oils on a cotton ball and run it over my pillow case, then put the cotton ball inside the case. I don't find this as helpful if I'm really worried or upset about something, but for just a typical night, it can be helpful. I was reading about "clean sleeping" recently. It includes no screen time for at least an hour prior to bed, to have the same bedtime range every night, even weekends, and some other things that I can't recall at this moment. I have tried no screen time for a 1/2 hour to an hour before bed, which also seems to help. Sometimes though I just toss and turn and end up on the recliner with the TV on with the volume way down. The TV turns the thoughts off so I can relax and eventually fall asleep.



HW (recorded) 323  Start of Journey 298.9  SW 263.6  CW 177.8  GW 180 
        
VSGAnn2014
on 1/20/18 12:05 pm
VSG on 08/14/14

Ambien causes amnesia, so you don't recall not sleeping?! That sucks. And it's straight from the pharmacist's mouth/keyboard. Thanks, Shel.

FYI, I've taken a total of 2.5 tabs of Ambien in the last 9 days. Early on I somehow lost the bottle (with 9 tabs in it). I still have half a tab left.

ANN 5'5", AGE 74, HW 235.6 (BMI 39.2), SW 216, GW 150, CW 132, BMI 22

POUNDS LOST: Pre-op -20, M1 -10, M2 -11, M3 -10, M4 -10, M5 -7, M6 -5, M7 -6, M8 -4, M9 -4,
NEXT 10 MOS. -12, TOTAL -100 LBS.

Shel25
on 1/20/18 12:35 pm, edited 1/20/18 4:40 am


"Amnesia" was the sleep doc's assessment. He said that he doesn't ask pt's if the sleep better with Ambien, he asks do you feel better the day after you take it? Do you feel more rested the next day? If patient continues to be tired the next day, it is hard for him to see value in the Ambien (or whatever) even if patient claims sleep is better.

I find this mind blowing and makes me rethink my Ambien days. I really believed that it helped my sleep. But, I was also well aware that I liked that it turned my brain entirely off. Once, a doc asked me what my first thoughts were when I woke up. My first thought at that time was "only x more hours til I get to turn my brain off" Of course, I didn't tell him that. I didn't fool him, tho. He slapped anxiety on my problem list and started citalopram.

Yesterday, I asked why studies say that Ambien discontinuation rebound insomnia is only 3-7 days but patients (me) report a much longer duration. He said that it is the return of the root reasons for insomnia. If root reasons weren't addressed, then there is no reason to think the insomnia wouldn't return.

So, what works best is finding the reason for underlying insomnia and treating that and also using CBT. He isn't against medications, but underwhelmed by benefit.

New sleep guideline came out in 2017 and all evidence for meds was "weak". For those of us who commonly work with high quality evidence for cardiovascular disease, having all sleep evidence rated as weak is astonishing. Not that weak is worthless, it is expert opinion and there is value in that. Still. I walked out of there thinking we need full court press on non-med solutions but there isn't money for that, it is literally not valued by insurance companies or patients.

HW:361 SW:304 (VSG 12/04/2014)Mo 1:-32  Mo 2:-13.5  Mo 3: -13.5  Mo 4 -9.5  Mo 5: -15  Mo 6: -15  Mo 7: -13.5  Mo 8: -17  Mo 9: -13  Mo 10: -12.5  11/3/2015 Healthy BMI Reached Mo 11: -9  Mo 12: -8    12/27/2015 Goal Weight Reached!

Liz WantsHealthForAll
on 1/21/18 4:37 am - Cape Cod, MA
VSG on 03/28/16

I wrote a long reply on this basically agreeing with the need for non-med treatment, but it got lost! Too tired to rewrite it...

Liz 5'3" HW: 219 SW: 185 GW: 125 LW: 113 Desired maintenance range: 120-125 CW: 119ish

diane S.
on 1/20/18 11:35 am

Greetings Pie Lovers

145 today. I ate very little yesterday but had PPP. (poor potty you know). And I was home all day mostly in bed due to back pain. I was scheduled to work at gallery but pain got so bad I could barely carry a cup of coffee and had to get on the floor and do child's pose. Vicodin didn't due much but my massage therapist neighbor reminded me that advil is an anti inflammatory and probably better. She is right. so I am much better today but not 100%. Does not bode well for my scheduled drive down to Marin county Monday but we will see. I have already talked to them about possible last minute cancellation.

So today a friend is coming over for computer therapy with DH. He is a wizard and she is a dolt like me plus gets very emotional about computer.

Ann, glad the peace is contagious. Wish we could spread that around. I am glad you are open to the joy and kindness offered by others. Hoping you find your pie.

Hey all, sleep is indeed a big deal and we need it as much as we need water. I have always had sleep issues and have to observe my little routine or I am derailed. Yeah I use ambien. Its a crutch but works for me.

Yeah Momsy, social workers are indeed underpaid. Ditto teachers and home health workers. Such an important service and yet not valued by society. Some economist should do an analysis of what they really give back to society in terms of enabling people to be more productive. Its seems the ability to produce money is the only thing valued by our society. (note to Congress : get off your big fat AZZES)

Well enough soap box. Time for more coffee, nectar of the gods. Diane S


      
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ocean4dlm
on 1/20/18 12:26 pm - Liverpool, NY
VSG on 05/27/15

Atlas had his first puppy class today. There were five other dogs, four months and under (black lab, Newfy, crazy ****er mix, golden doodle, and a tiny breed of some sort. Atlas spends a lot of time rough and tumble with Sadie and I was apprehensive that he would be a very bold alpha male with the others. He stayed away from the two rowdy high energy males (the crazy ****er being one), and played very well with some of the younger, smaller dogs. The ****er mix has some aggressive guarding issues he is working on and Atlas gave him space

131.6 today. Had part of a fabulous ahi tuna salad for lunch. Took advantage of the 50 degree weather to dig an edger and flat edged garden shovel out of the shed to clear the driveway and walks down to bare asphalt. I took both cars to the car wash, one at a time, and feel so good looking at clean cars.

Age: 64; 5' 5"; High weight: 345; Start weight: 271 (01/05/15); Surgery weight: 218 (05/27/15); Pre-Op (-53); M 1 (-18); M 2 (-1.5); M 3 (-13.5 ); M 4 (-13); M 5 (- 8); M 6 (-12) M 7 (-5, Xmas); M 8 (- 9) Under surgeon's goal and REACHED HEALTHY BMI 12/07/15!! (Six months and one week.) AT GOAL month 8. Maintaining at goal range (139- 144) ~ four (4) years !!

Shel25
on 1/20/18 12:36 pm

Your weather is all over the place! I loved puppy class....enjoy!

HW:361 SW:304 (VSG 12/04/2014)Mo 1:-32  Mo 2:-13.5  Mo 3: -13.5  Mo 4 -9.5  Mo 5: -15  Mo 6: -15  Mo 7: -13.5  Mo 8: -17  Mo 9: -13  Mo 10: -12.5  11/3/2015 Healthy BMI Reached Mo 11: -9  Mo 12: -8    12/27/2015 Goal Weight Reached!

diane S.
on 1/20/18 1:02 pm

Hey Diane O, good on you for puppy class and gardening. Stay away from the crazy ****er spaniel. The purebreds are known to have a genetic defect that I think is called rage syndrome where they get nasty. Bad breeding. But glad its owner is working on it. Diane S


      
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(deactivated member)
on 1/20/18 2:04 pm

If it's a supposed "****er mix", I would guess that it's really a Springer Mix. Springers have a syndrome that is identified in the breed as "Springer Rage". The rage is an unreasonable, aggressive reaction to some minor seeming outside action or stimulus, e.g. touching the dog's foot, bumping into it, etc... I groomed (for a very short time) a Springer with rage syndrome. He became too difficult to handle on the table. That Springer was one of only 2 dogs with whom I have ever felt in danger of physical harm. If it's truly a rage syndrome, you are wise to keep Atlas on a short lead near this pup. The syndrome is not treatable and can only be monitored by the owner. Dogs with true rage syndrome are a danger to children and other dogs.

Dominance is a whole other issue and is a trainable trait. Hopefully, the trainer and the owner will be able to understand which issue the puppy has.

Also, thank you for the kind words in your post yesterday.

Liz WantsHealthForAll
on 1/21/18 4:45 am - Cape Cod, MA
VSG on 03/28/16

Wow, I never heard of that! My first husband's family had the sweetest Springer I've ever known (Bonnie).

Liz 5'3" HW: 219 SW: 185 GW: 125 LW: 113 Desired maintenance range: 120-125 CW: 119ish

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