Dec 15. Tuesday

Yeah, 'tis the season of screaming carbs and sugar. In recent days the same scene has played out before me. Picture several women, all overweight (except me) sitting around art gallery or studio or whatever near a table laden with christmas cookies, candies and other high calorie items.  The discussion is something like "those cookies are so good i want 10 more" and "all this great stuff is so hard to resist"  and "maybe just one more and I am done"  and "what are we going to do with all this stuff".

Now why do we (meaning our society) do this to ourselves? Most americans are overweight to some degree yet we can't have a gathering or holiday without excessive amounts of unhealthy food?  Years ago our office plan to get healthier was to replace donuts with muffins. Really?  

Maybe all the sweets are the medication for the toxic families.  Wish we could make holidays more about taking care of ourselves and each other.     diane

ps. 128.5.  less than thrilled with that.   

Wow Diane I think your insight about why there's so much food around is quite profound!  It really could be about soothing all of us in this season of social / emotional discomfort. 

Okay, I'm here ;-)

Down to 115 again. A decent day calorie wise but lots of my calories were crap. Not a big deal over the short term but it is one I think I'm going to have to create limits around because I did fall into that pattern before and really ramped up my cravings. 

I'm so grateful to have all you wonderful people here. This group is so incredibly functional, which is a rarity on the Internet, isn't it!  

Hi All! 

Scale was down 1.3 lbs. this morning.  It's cold and gloomy today instead of the 55 degree sunny day predicted.  Oh well, that's New England for you! 

Lots of things to think about.  Kairk, I was, at first, taken aback by your comment about recovery vs relapse, but it sure is making me think.  I get so confused at times between needing strict structure and trying to find a way to come to terms with my food issues, getting to a more sane and comfortable place.  I get so fearful of opening that Pandora's box!  On the other hand, holding myself to a perfect standard hasn't worked.  I so want to find the balance.  I think that's true of all of us here, to one degree or another.  What struck me about the saying when I read Diane's post was that I've been playing around over the past few weeks, with food, and I'm just treading water.  I am keeping myself from sinking, but not getting any closer to shore.  At this pace, I'm bound to get 'tired' and will eventually sink.  What I got from all of this is that if I want to move forward, I have to be in recovery, which to me is eating the way I know is healthy for me, rather than trying to get away with eating in an unhealthy way.   I do understand your point though.  Berating myself for food mistakes just put me into a vicious cycle over the years of eating, putting myself down, then eating because I felt bad about myself, all the time staying obese.  I never want to go there again!  Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling here, but hope I'm making some sense.  Thanks for making me think.

Have a great night!

Mary

Interesting conversation!

I am very much an all or none, black or white person, especially when it comes to weight loss. That mind-set has not worked for me in the past, so I need to change it. Last time I lost 100 lb. pounds and got to goal I quickly re-gained the weight. First at < 1,500 calories per day and a good level of exercise and when I saw that I was gaining at that level, I just kind of threw in the towel and went full blown back to my bad eating habits. I know this time around that I can't maintain on 1,500 calories (no matter what MDs, the web or MFP tells me). I don't quite know what my caloric level will be yet, but hopefully will in the next several months (when my activity is back to my new "norm").

I think I kind of like the if I'm not in recovery, I'm in relapse saying. Relapse doesn't have to mean never having a "forbidden" food but I think for me it will mean crossing my red line number. If that line is crossed, I have relapsed and must go back to weight loss mode.

Maintenance isn't for sissies. This is going to be hard work. So glad I have all of you to help!

First, please be aware that my only experience with OA and the recovery vs. relapse issue was very black and white. There was "the plan" and if you veered from that you were in relapse. I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to manage that style of eating long term. The people who admitted they had "relapsed" were even made to feel as if they had failed by other members. It was very judgmental. That's why I didn't stay. 

I tried another meeting and there they believed that everyone relapsed and that being over weight/obese was okay and we should be good with it. That didn't work for me either. 

So, okay, maybe I worded it strongly, but, it really is how I feel. We attribute food with so much power. Yes, some foods seem to have strong effects upon us - I am in that camp. I understand that when we are learning new eating behaviors it helps to practice them with 100% fidelity. 

I guess I need to explain that when I consider recovery (e.g. being on plan) vs. relapse I see it as you're either one or the other. I'm afraid I can not subscribe to that philosophy any longer. As a fat person (because that's how I referred to myself for years - one of my passwords was even Fatman) I felt most of the time that if I could only have a strong enough character I wouldn't be fat. I was shamed by my immediate family and my extended family for being overweight. I became ashamed of who I was. I felt less than because I was fat. My value as a person, as a performer, as a mate, as someone in today's health conscious world was severely lessened because I was fat. So.... failing at yet another diet only fueled the fire of negative self thought. I spent a great deal of my 30s and 40s feeling valueless as a person at a very core level. I didn't show it to the world, but I was scared of my truth.  

Like Paula did when she gained weight previously, when I started gaining weight after VSG, I went into the all or nothing thinking yet again. I couldn't string together enough days for sustainable weight loss. Then I'd beat myself up and the cycle would repeat and repeat and repeat. I had to get off that cycle. For me, the recovery vs. relapse is another measure steeped in judgement. It doesn't work for me any longer. It is too harsh.  

Yes, I have had isolated incidents of binge eating. Want to call those relapse? That's okay with me, if you do, but I won't. I am focusing on learning who I am with food. I'm finding a sense of balance and to me that is huge. I am slowly becoming the person who can have a cookie and be done. Am I there yet? No, but I'm so much closer than I have ever been. 

I think obese people carry so much shame and self loathing that eventually there comes a time in this journey when the shame and loathing must be replaced by kindness, understanding and true acceptance. There is nothing wrong with wanting and having a cookie, a glass of wine, a margarita, a slice of pie or cake, potato chips, nachos, or whatever calorie laden food that is your ambrosia might be, as long as it is now and again.

It is the relaxation of my approach to food and eating that has made me more successful than I have ever been. I know not everyone may agree with me and that's okay. I always say that we must find our own paths and we are all in different places in our journeys. What works for you today may not work for you next month or next year. This is a journey. We are in constant flux. 

My apologies if I offended anyone here. That was never my intent. 

No offense taken on my end. Thanks for sharing your heart.....good stuff!

Devon, I was not offended in the least!  This is a safe place to be honest with one another.  The point I was making was that your view and Diane O's view really made me think.  For me, the message I got was more that recovery means to me that I am trying (imperfectly) to follow a plan vs. playing around and seeing what I can get away with.  I hear you loudly and clearly about the shame in OA.  I too spent time in both camps.  The Gray Sheeters were so rigid and I felt so full of shame if I ate something off of that plan.  I was so afraid of potatoes for awhile there, even though potatoes were not a trigger food for me.  The other end of the spectrum was the "anything goes", without any true recovery.  I was lucky enough to find some groups that had the balance I was looking for, but unfortunately, my success was short lived.  I guess what I'm trying to so inadequately say is that I need to be working a plan, even if I falter, and stop playing around and waiting until "later" to do so.  No shame if I trip, but rather to say okay, now just move on.  I truly want the balance with food that you write about.  If I'm going to get there, I need to make a deliberate effort to do so.   Thank you for making me look into myself more closely!

Mary

Posting late....crazy, busy day!!!  Scale down a couple of pounds...

Love all the discussion.  More later....