Calorie intake and long workouts

Hi!

Here's what I've found after a couple years of experimentation...

If you're goal is to lose, you need to create a caloric deficit.  I think 300-400 calories per day is probably the max you should shoot for if you're also doing lot's of working out.  Working out should be for heath - there are so many benefits... but you still need to create that deficit...

What I've found as far as long workouts goes is this:  

1. If it's shorter than 2h - probably don't need to do anything special

2. 2-3h - grey area

3. 3h or more, gonna need to do some eating or you'll bonk.  I have experimented with "the bonk" and if I don't eat during serious exercise I bonk right at 3 hours and it's bad.  

4. During exercise I have NO problem consuming carbs.  They don't trigger me, they just go straight to fueling my activity.  I do have to watch "post-event" consumption, but it's good to fuel up a bit after a hard workout - IF YOUR GOAL is increasing your performance.  You need the calories to build muscle, etc.  If you're goal is weight loss you'll want to fuel up to your deficit level.

5. I wouldn't recommend a quest bar for "during exercise" fuel.  I just don't think it's a good choice... 

6. Be careful of calorie burn estimates.  Most tend to be very high.  Use it as a first approximation and then dial in based on what happens with your weight.  I'm a cyclist, so we use power meters which give a very accurate estimation of power generated and thus calories, but it's the only sport I know of where the calorie burn can be pretty accurately measured.  And even when I'm just killing it, I'm at about half the burn of what some "estimators" would show...  I feel like I've got mine dialed in pretty well, but it does take experimentation.  Also know that the more you do an activity the more "efficient" you get.  You may want to consider mixing up your activities to keep the burn rate higher - add swimming or cycling to your hiking.  Humans are VERY efficient at walking...  But it is a great activity for health.

7. get your body fat tested.  It's easy to get down on yourself if you're not losing weight - but you may be changing your body composition for the better (adding muscle), and really FAT is our enemy, not WEIGHT.  If you weigh the same but you were all firm and toned, you'd (hopefully) be happy with that.  

8. I have started making my own exercise nutrition items following the book "Feedzone Portables" - great recipes for on the go edibles for cycling (written by guys who cooked for pro cycling teams) but the principals will work for any endurance type exercise - then you will know exactly what you're getting and you can experiment on what works for YOU.

9. On the bike when I'm working hard, I shoot to take in 200-300 calories per hour.  I'm burning about 600-700 per hour, but the 200-300 seems to work.  From what I gather, it works best if this is mostly carbs, as it allows a good mix - the deficit of 400 calories per hour is made up by burning your glucose stores and body fat.  Bonking is when you run out of your glucose stores - it seems we need a trickle of carbs (or glucose) to keep the fat fire burning... that's the common wisdom in cycling, anyway.  If you just eat protein, your body has to work harder to convert that into glucose - it may stave off the feeling of hunger but it won't stop the bonk possibly as the protein->glucose conversion takes a lot longer.  

Hope that helps!

Yeah, I know the calorie burn numbers are probably off, but if I have my heart rate in the 160+ zone for 4 hours, and my consumption for the day is around 1200 calories, I'm pretty sure I'm creating a much bigger deficit than 300-400 calories a day.  And, since I'm trying to get back to goal after a really substantial regain, a "normal" day is more in the range of 500-700 calorie deficit (based on my estimate of what a maintenance range may look like based on my current rate of weight loss).  I can do about 5 hours before I really feel my body flagging, so I wouldn't say I'm actually at risk of "bonking" up to that point.

Honestly, I'm not that focused on maximizing my performance.  I'm sure I could do better, but that's not where my head is.  It's a stress outlet and soul-feeding activity more than a workout, and I'm not competitive.  I'm mostly focused on not doing things to increase my tendency toward binge eating, or that create problems for me sticking to my normal calorie range the rest of the week.   I'm terribly sensitive to sugar, and have to be careful not to slide into justifying off-plan eating after workouts. 

So, I'm curious, what's your objection to Quest bars as hiking food?  I do usually consume a Premier Protein shake on my drive out to the trail head, and I usually pack some cheese, and for a longer hike usually a wrap sandwich.  I know many folks object to protein bars on principle, and I definitely have to watch them as a slider food, but they seem like a reasonably good balance of protein and carbs for hiking without the sugar (or honey or whatever the "natural" substitute of the moment is) that's such a danger zone for me, and they don't require a lot of advance planning - I can grab one and drop it in my pack (or 3 as emergency fuel if I'm going someplace I might conceivable get stranded overnight if things went horribly wrong).  I've tried peanut butter, and it's such a trigger for me, I end up wanting more all of the following week. 

Sounds like you have it pretty dialed in!

I just found that quest bars didn't do what I needed during exercise, and when I ate them while not exercising they were as bad a trigger as a snickers bar - they also don't provide any satiety - for me they don't serve a very useful purpose.  your milage may vary, everyone needs to experiment on their own.

Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated.  Like you, I Can't eat Quest bars on a regular day, and I may find down the road they're problematic as hike food too.  I should look into other options.

this is fun