I am discouraged

Sometimes I wonder if hugging you would result in instant transfer of love, compassion and wisdom.  You simply glow from the inside. 

Yep, i fondly remember the old days on the main vsg forum when maybe one person a week got surgery and you could read all the posts and keep up with all the pioneers. now there are so many people its impossible to read everything. so i just check in once in a while and answer a few questions but mostly skip.

I miss those early folks. Remember *****y McSnipe? so hilarious.

And it is discouraging to see people get poor advice or who appear to be really unprepared for the surgery after having had it. Guess all we can do is check in and help to the extent we have time. I often tell people to read my blog page and those of other long timers to get info and so i don't repeat the same things over and over. I noticed oh is having some kind of mentor program and i will check it out.

But Elina (and Lee and all of you) don't forget how much good you continue to do by being a good example of success. Its a valuable role and you are outstanding.   diane

I understand about pulling back because I've done it. I've even pulled back from here because I'm just in a different place that most post-ops and at some point everything just pushed my buttons and that's not good for me.

And, when I say anything about it, I get at least one response that's an implied guilt trip about "giving back." Bah!

But I do think you should reassure yourself that most people will do just fine no matter what they post on the VSG Board! Really, they will. They have restriction and hunger control and that's the key. Maybe they won't lose down to 12% body fat and suffer absolutely no bounce back, but they will lose a lot of weight, get much healthier, and get their lives back.

The other thing is, you can't really judge sometimes based on what people post. For example the following sorts of posts from people less than 6 months out drive me mad:

-I eat just the same way as I always did only smaller portions
-I hate exercise and can't make myself do it
-I didn't have this surgery to be on a diet!

But now that I'm 4 years out, I find myself saying things like:

-There isn't any food I had pre-op that I haven't had post-op
-I haven't worked out in a  year
-I didn't have this surgery to be "on a diet" for the rest of my life!

And when you look at these statements, how far apart are they really?

I was assuming that the person who says "I eat just the same way as I always did only smaller portions" was really saying "I am not open to changing my ways" but maybe they are really saying "I don't put food in good and bad boxes and I'm figuring out how to fit the foods I love into my life in  moderation". And even if they are saying they aren't open to change right now, that doesn't mean they aren't open to change later.

As for the exercise one, I'm big on exercise. I think it's really good for us even if it doesn't lead to weight loss. But even the experts say that 80% of weight control is what we eat!

And I didn't have this surgery to be on a diet for the rest of my life, to put foods into Good and Bad piles and never eat grapes or carrots or white potatoes ever again. I think it's important to maximize the first 6 months but I can see someone just not being able to do it because they have dieted all their lives and don't have one more in them. A lot of them won't lose to 100% of their excess weight but some of them will. I've seen people do it.

What it comes down to, for me, is that it's easy to be judgemental because we see some doozies out there, but what people post on here is a small fraction of their life and their thought processes. I've seen posts by people who you'd think had it all nailed and when I meet them in real life, I am shocked by how heavy  they are. But from how they talk, you'd think they were at their ideal weight!

So it goes both ways. Not everyone is doing as well as their posts imply and not everyone is doing as badly as their post imply.

That doesn't mean I have to subject myself to posts that put me in a bad place mentally, but I've definitely stopped worrying about everyone who posts stuff that shows they are in a far different place than I am.

All good points as usual. 

I pretty much agree with MacMadame on this. The reality is that more and more people are having WLS and the sleeve in particular. I feel sorry for those who just jump into surgery without having done their own research. I think those of us a few years out tended to research ALOT so we knew about the doctors, the surgery, after care, what to eat, what to expect to have to change, etc. and many of the newbies just seem like they walked in, hopped on the operating table and expect to be thin. But an online support board just can't overcome all those deficiencies. It can help a great deal, but it can't provide everything...

I also agree that, in general, moderation is not a good thing in the losing stage...but I think there are shades of moderation. For example, I was quite strict while I was losing, but not AS strict as you were, Elina. And I lost more slowly, but I got there. You didn't exercise, but you lost just fine. Other people really don't want to get super thin. So, while there is an ideal, which I believe is our program,  I too have seen people be successful who followed more "moderate" paths. I agree with just about everything you ever post, Elina, but I also really don't worry that much about the newbies because it really is an individual journey. I will answer questions but it's not worth trying to change someone's mind, in my opinion.

And I had to laugh at what Marie said...because it's true--I can't think of any food that I don't eat, EVER and I don't want to feel deprived and on a rigid diet. And, yes, maintenance is very different from the losing phase, but I do understand the sentiment behind what the "Moderation" camp are saying, and I do think there are some who just don't have one more super strict diet in them. (These are the people, in particular, that I kind of point toward a DS).

Anyway, I feel like I have been very, very lucky in that my food/emotional demons were not bad enough to derail my loss in the beginning or my on-going maintenance. I'm okay with the level of work/exercise/self control that I have to put into this--but I see an awful lot of newbies who are facing much greater hurdles, more emotional difficulties, more bad eating habits, etc. I do feel badly for them and see regain in the future, but the demons are so individual, so rooted in who we are, that it really is up to each individual to examine them...

I don't want you to be sad, Elina! You give so much, and I think what you do has TREMENDOUS value and you have helped countless people. But you can't reach them all!
Lizanne

Lizanne, after reading your response, I want to give you a big hug, but why should today be any different than any other time.  :)  You always add something beautiful to the conversation.  Thank you for still being here for us "newbie vets".  :)  Hugs.

I'm sick of the main board. Elaina, you and I had this conversation, so you know, but I don't really feel like I belong anywhere right now. The main forum just isn't supportive anymore. But, I still have 20 lbs to lose and besides lurking here, I'm not sure I belong here either...yet.

It's frustrating. I'm actually a nice person. Okay, I'm totally not, but sometimes I can be. But, the snark in me gets unleashed on the main forum and that's not necessarily always a good thing. I'm old enough the know the value of reigning in the snark, ***** in me.

Anyway, I just don't feel like much of a value to any of the forums on OH.

Not sure where to go from here - as far as OH is concerned.

You do belong here.  I don't know how valuable this forum is for you right now as it is pretty slow, but only 20 pounds out is just about at maintenance.   I find myself not really willing to fight the same fights anymore on the main forum.  I read the posts, then I sometimes even read some of the crazy ideas that people respond with and just shake my head.  Today I found myself doing something really and truly stupid.  I read a post and a response that I know is wrong from a scientific point of view.  It basically goes back to the whole "starvation mode" thing.  I then went ahead and pulled half a dozen articles from reputable scientific journals and was about ready to post them, when it just hit me.  "I really don't care anymore".   I sat there staring at this research thinking, what's the point here for me?  I've already won this war and fought this battle.  It just might be time to step back and let it go.

"Not sure where to go from here - as far as OH is concerned."

I'm down to two boards on OH. This one and the Lightweights one.

And both are slow moving... so apparently I like that. 

But there are other places too. I post at BariatricTV.com (also slow moving but faster than here) and I belong to one FB group about WLS, Bariatric Bad Girls Club (BBGC) which is incredibly fast moving. (Oh and the Lightweights have a FB group too - forgot about that - it's glacially moving!)

There are a TON of FB groups, there are other boards, there are plenty of places to get support and all have a different vibe. None of them is "perfect" for me. But they all have something to offer.

I am sure you can find a  home or two out there somewhere to get the support you need.

Yeah, I look at some other sites/forums.

I work from home. Sort of like with the WLS, I have to be mindful of my fime. I could easily spend all day on different blogsites and forums.

I keep forgetting about the lightweights forum. I need to go check that out.

Thanks Mac.