My next rant - protein shakes?

Ok... trying to suppress my bitter and sarcastic side, but boy, work is really still giving me quite a run for the money, I have to say.  And these points like "I'd always had trouble drinking carbonated drinks since my surgery two years ago...."  THEN WHY DO YOU KEEP DRINKING THEM!?

Insert, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" - "Then don't do that" joke here.

So maybe I'm being totally unfair and judgemental - and if you think so, tell me.  But some of these posts I wonder if they aren't mild forms of adult temper tantrums.  Which posts?

The protein shakes.

Always in the 1 week to 3 week period, usually between 7 to 14 days, you see this post with someone claiming the impossibility of drinking their protein right after surgery

- I cannot tolerate them, not any protein shakes

- They make me want to throw up (but they don't actually throw up)

- I've tried to make them better by [adding calories and carbs] adding mil**** Greek yogurt, regular yogurt, peanut butter, etc etc and still cannot tolerate them

And so with their tiny healing sleeve, they ask - How can I eat my 80 g of protein a day as a nine-day post-op?    And they compromise their diet plan and healing by not having their shakes - although they still might instruct their children to eat their vegetables.

Some people have no issue with shakes, some gripe about it, some would have you believe it's actually a forum of cruel torture.

Is this, to some extent, a form of a temper tantrum?  That is, imagine this scenario.  Morbidly obese person, ready for surgery.  Didn't need to do a pre-op diet, maybe never really "dieted" before as opposed to the yo-yo dieters.  Maybe never really said goodbye to certain kinds of food for a long period before? Has surgery, but has not lived with denying themselves pleasure for food so after surgery it's WHAM!   Cold turkey.  

Maybe it's like:  I used to get physical pleasure from food - but now I can't!  Food is supposed to be delicious and palatable - no, hyperpalateable, it's supposed to taste and feel really good!  But these shakes are just ...

I mean, we aren't exactly geared to interpret protein as "gagging" or "nauseating", and certainly don't with other forms.  And I think this is reinforced by when people try shakes and are ok with them pre-op (because they are still eating other delicious food) but not post-op because now there's nothing to turn to?

And so people are going into surgery coming out without the clear expectation that they are going to live a life where they get a lot less physical pleasure from food than they used to.  These protein shakes aren't delicious!  They're just functional!   It's like a massive expectation failure, perhaps

What do ya'll think?  Am I off base?  What about those of you who had this reaction that you "could not tolerate" protein shakes - did it change ever?  Did you find peace later?  Shakes just as vile? 

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  I can't tell you what a blast I'm getting from your recent rants!  Love 'em!    

--Dorothy 

I'm with you on this one.  I didn't like the protein shakes in the first few weeks either.  But I went out of my way to find things that worked.  Pre-made shakes too thick?  Thin them down with water!  Still not ok, go to GNC, buy Isopure.  Tastes like crap?  Add water and choke them down.  Period. 

This isn't about "liking" them, it's about doing what needs to be done for our health.  Period.

Later, when I'd gone through about 50 (ok, maybe not quite that many) brands and flavor combos, I finally settled on a couple I liked.  Now, do I wake up and think "WOW, can't wait to have that deliciuos protein shake today!!"?  No, I don't.  But it's also not a dreaded being-led-to-the-gallows event either.  It's all part of meeting my protein requirements.  It's almost like medicine or taking a shower.  I don't like taking medicine, but I do when I need to for my health.  And, I also don't like taking a shower, but I do it for my health and hygiene.  And so others won't run at the sight of me.  (this may sound weird... not the shower itself I dislike so much as the hair/makeup tasks that follow.  I've got it down to a science... time from stepping into shower until ready for the day = 30 minutes, but I still don't enjoy the process).

Anyhow, I HATE it when some posters say "I can't tolerate these shakes.  They make me gag!  I've tried everything!"  And so, being glutton for punishment, I ask what they mean by everything.  And often times, "everything" turns out to be having tried one or two shakes and they mixed them with milk.  WELL, my friend, you certainly have not tried "everything" nor have you even touched the tip of the iceberg.  PUT IN A LITTLE EFFORT HERE FOLKS.  YOU JUST HAD 85% OF YOUR STOMACH REMOVED BY CHOICE!  And so I go on educating them about protein types, protein brands and flavors... getting sampler packs... websites or stores with good brands or varieties, etc.  I'm not sure why I keep doing this because it's insanity... the same thing over and over again.

OK, end rant.  I feel better now.

You know, I have to say something about this. I had a very, very difficult start and I had a very challenging time trying to find something that I could tolerate and I tried many, many different types of protein and added protein powder to yogurt, SF pudding, jello, etc. I really tried to get my protein into me.. It wasn't because I was trying to find "pleasure" from the protein drinks. I was trying put nutrition into my body. Many of them did cause nausea and gagging in the beginning. After surgery, everything tastes differently than it did pre-op and this is part of the reason for intolerance. Heck, I would watch TV and be nauseated from the food commercials.

Be careful not to lump every person into the same class. People really do have physical intolerances due to nausea, acid production, and restriction in the immediate post-op period. I finally found something that I could tolerate several weeks out, and it was something that I couldn't tolerate in the beginning.

gail

Hi Gail -

So given your personal experiences, you probably have some of the most useful/helpful feedback on this situation.  Your response leads me to a couple questions:

1)  The "protein shake" post is posted 2-3 times a day, every day, give or take.   Do you have any sense that you can tell the difference between a poster who is having a hard time with adjusting to a liquid diet with a poster who's had an experience like you with actual functional tolerance challenges?  Or do you feel they are too difficult to separate?

2)  For those with "true" tolerance issues (as opposed to mental blocks and expectation failures) what is the advice you would give them having traveled your own path?  You said you eventually found something - what was that?  How long did it take you to find it?  Did you end up just going without protein until you were able to locate that? 

3)  Did you happen to be on anti-nausea meds?

I ask because since "the protein shake" posts are one of the most common posts (right after RnY versus VSG - which one do I get) I think it would be good for us to understand the actual viewpoint.  Yes, many of these people must be having tempertantrums, but not all.  So for those truly dedicated to their new life and unable to swallow their protein, this just has to be a situation that could even incorporate depression.  So what is your advice to these people that could help them resolve their tolerance issues faster?  And how did you feel before you found what worked for you?

I don't read many of the posts on protein drinks anymore, since my issues are different now. Pre-op, I read the VSG forum and the Lightweights Forum. I gleaned a lot of great information and I thought that I was well prepared. I had various samples of Nectars, Unjury, Isopure, etc. I had everything. The drink that I could tolerate pre-op, I couldn't tolerate afterwards. My taste buds really did change, as many, many vets attested might happen. I was very well prepared and my reactions were physical intolerance. I couldn't even tolerate water, zero gatorade, vitamin water, or Crystal Light.  Warm herbal teas went down easier and were more soothing.

The most supportive responses were from people who understood what I was going through and offered support and reassurance and constructive suggestions, and that it wasn't my fault. I was pre-warned not to load up on a large amount of a specific protein, since tastebuds, preferences, and tolerances do change after surgery. Not for everyone, but for many. There are people who become lactose intolerant after surgery and need to find an non-whey based protein source.

I didn't like the Nectars (but I did sip them down), protein shakes were often too thick, and I was lactose intolerant for the first few weeks. What I did, was to use the unflavored protein (I had all bases covered) in yogurt, SF pudding, soup, and anything else that I could put it in. Early on, the Unjury chicken soup was a godsend and I was able to get that down. Premier protein drink from Costco was a bit tolerable, because it was thinner and easier to drink. Some people love Muscle Milk. I couldn't stand it.

I was on anti-nausea meds and an acid reducer, which was eventually changed to a PPI.

I have met people that needed to be on TPN (total parental nutrition) for months due to excessive acid reflux and nausea. I wouldn't say that they were having a "temper tantrum."

Be careful. This is not a laughing matter for many people. Regardless of the reason, the intolerance is real and temporary. Part of me did feel a bit offended by this post, because it was such a real problem for me in the beginning and I definitely was not having a "temper tantrum.". I was prepared for the first month to be the most difficult. Some people may not be as well prepared. If you didn't have difficulty in the beginning, good for you.

Also, you might want to ask yourself, why are you so invested or irritated by certain posts? Maybe, if certain topic are irritating to you, it might be worthwhile just to scroll on by. That is what I learned to do.

What solves the tolerance issues? Time. Each week, the sleeve swelling decreases and there is more room for fluids and protein. One has to keep trying different things. That is what I did.

gail

Wow Gail -

Thanks so much for taking the time to share your story with me/us!  I have to say, I found it very illuminating since my journey was different.

A few remarks:

I noticed in your case, it wasn't so much that you couldn't tolerate protein shakes, but it sounds like you couldn't tolerate liquids in any form - water being an issue.  Were you actually able to stay sufficiently hydrated?  Do you have any liquid issues anymore?  How long did they take for you to resolve?

As with an actual "temper tantrum", that would indicate a short phase - I wouldn't suggest that someone getting to the TPN point or several months of issues were being somehow mentally obstinate.  And if you feel offended, I would like to apologize to you - while I playfully called this a rant, it was really an invitation to discussion nor was it really meant to target those with physical issues of general liquid intake.  One of the things I did to kind-of indicate this (perhaps not well enough) was to try to walk though the mentality of the type of person I was envisioning who might have an adult temper tantrum - someone reliant on the majority of their pleasure from food.  This situation obviously didn't apply to someone such as yourself (and people like you) who are driven to try to stack the cards in your favor by really preparing before surgery (as you tried different protein shakes) rather than those who just have surgery and awesome it'll all be a piece of cake (feel free to stab me for the pun). 

And you're certainly right about letting go of irritating posts - focusing on those only seem to ... build a certain sensitivity to them in the first place, don't you find?   But being vested is a different issue.  The more I think about it, the more I think we actually have an opportunity - there's these questions that are often posted, which surgery do I have, protein shakes suck, can I eat something I'm not supposed to, am I losing weight too fast, too slow, etc.  And over the months, I see the responses are sometimes different to the same question because it's answered by different people at different times.  I was thinking that with a little effort, we could right up some nice, well-written responses that we could reference over and over.  We as a community could put a lot of effort into a response just once, because we don't all want to do it every time, and we all admit we skip a lot of those questions now in the main VSG forum.

To continue with investment - think about a nice response about "So, you can't tolerate protein shakes" - but as you point out, this could not be written by one person with a singular viewpoint as myself.  It must contain multiple addressing states:   Are you unable to even keep water down?  If not, the information below really isn't going to help you, because it's not protein shakes that are the issue, it's liquids in general".  And that's where someone in your experience could come in.  Yes, a great deal of "the protein shake" posters are people who are unprepared and uncommitted for lifestyle change - and some are people like you who can end up insulted and frustrated - but both type of people get the same answers when they post - that's why in this thread I've been asking people "can you tell the difference between" so we can give a person the right advice.  That is, if you're inclined to.  And I think if we had a nice post that we could link again and again, it would provide a lot of value to newbies - a value I wish I had access to when I was freshly cut.  But again, one of the hardest points on an internet forum can be to know whether someone is really giving their all and their stomach just isn't cooperating, or whether their expectations are way out of alignment.

And I guess I want to be invested as it seems 'worse' information is circulating, like "eat what you always ate after surgery, but smaller portions".  I found my sleeve so successful - I would like others to find the same, but they need that good information to help guide them.  That's why form time-to-time I try to engage in these more challenging conversations.  Because I know my experience in unique, and may be quite different from another's.

Finally, time solves the issue - but I didn't have this problem.  Getting into the mental state of someone post-op, who cannot even ge****er to stay down, like you - how (especially on an internet forum) can you assure them that it'll be ok, when they are sweating with worry and buyer's remorse?  Or can anything be done at all to cater to the emotional state?  "I'm a stranger and you'll be ok in a month" doesn't feel safe or fulfilling - does telling your personally story help bring them peace?  Etc.

Sorry for the lengthy reply.

Here you go again ....... keep it up Ruggie! Love your rants.

Gotta make those protein drinks taste good. I don't like sweet things, so, you could imagine my struggle in the beginning. Didn't really struggle, just drank lots of protein soups with added hot sauce (okayed by Dr. C). Also learned about unflavored unjury and started mixing that with Crystal Lite Lemonade which I watered down, actually liked it!

Yeah, I know what you mean Ruggie!  Grow the hell up and do what you need to do to fuel your body...doesn't mean you're gonna like it.  Soooo, if they don't like it, they are gonna ***** about it.  Nuf said.  One more point to add is that early on in the process, a lot of sleevers have that liquid in, liquid out thing going on and I think this is where many "think" that they cannot "tolerate" the protein shakes - it's not the shakes, it's the liquid...JMO

Deb

Ruggie, be careful here.  I think you are hitting on some good points and there are many newbies that fall into your "I just can't eat/drink it because it tastes awful"category, but there are others who are having issues with protein shakes that are physical not psychological.  Some people have a difficult time with the nausea they can cause and others get diarrhea from them.  It can be a challenge to find ones that work.  That does not mean that the people need to stop looking, they have to stay committed to finding a solution that involves protein.  You don't want the people that are having "real" issues to get turned off from asking for help.  Just make sure that you are making a distinction here.  That's my two cents on this topic.