What do you do when you see a newbie on a failure course?

While I don't do that I still struggle.  There are SOME alcoholics who only have to hit bottom ONCE and there are those who struggle with drinking every day of their lives.   We are all so different and success and failure and the degree you measure it is also different.

Ms Shell

Thanks for your post. I think it's fine to suggest more rigorous adherence to the guidelines to people who are complaining about not succeeding. It another thing to assume that following the plan rigorously is necessary to success. If someone is succeeding doing their own thing, then I say reserve judgement.

If I had admitted all the ways in which my approach is non-compliant (e.g., wine, carbs, diet soda, no journaling!), most of you'd have pegged me for total failure. But I've been incredibly happy with my results (normal BMI at 7 months out, great labs) and the ease and comfort of the changes I made to get there. I know I might just be lucky (maybe temporarily!), but admonishments and preaching to folks like me are just alienating.

I also worry that the common refrain of "if you're not ready to make big changes, then don't do this surgery" will deter people from having the surgery who would actually benefit greatly from it. Of course, if someone has untreated food addiction then they're not a good candidate. But I've found the surgery to provide me instant and reliable willpower not to eat too much. I have always preferred healthy foods, so honestly I feel like the surgery does all the work for me to control my portions and my weight. If we go on about how much of a struggle it is even after surgery, then pre-op people might fail to appreciate how much LESS of a struggle the post-op journey can be than NOT having surgery.

Ah ha, this is a terrific point and one that is usually one of those hot-button issues.

I definitely agree with you in general:  one one hand, we don't want to caution people too much about the need for a large life change to scare off people who would end up benefitting from it.  On the other hand, we sometimes see/hear the results of someone who has an untreated food addiction that's had surgery.

These pretend potential patients that we evaluate - I'm sure if we had a chance to get to know each person as a complex individual, we'd usually come to a rough consensus about which side of the 'street' they're on.  Trying to tease this information out on a forum is pretty tough though.  How can we do this more effectively?  I'm not sure we can, and it may just come down to an issue where we play the odds we think are best.  (I feel more people will benefit from having surgery they're not ready for than scaring people off, so I'll more often suggest surgery than avoidance, for instance).  

And even if we met the person - that's not the best indication of future success.  There are always 'exceptions' that will prove everyone wrong.  There's the "hot mess" whose life will suddenly crystalize in a manner we don't expect and will be amazing.  There will also be the dedicated person we usually suspect will make it who will break and fail for some reason - maybe someone close to this person died and they can't handle added pressures anymore.  

I'm not sure at this level of interaction that we can hope for anything better than 'playing the odds' when it comes to giving people recommendations and guidance.  Even though we have data illustrating an average 70% EWL after a year with a VSG, it doesn't quite capture the success of someone like JimboVSG or Frisco, nor does it quite capture that individual that manages to gain weight after surgery.  Life is, and will continue to be, amazingly complex and diverse.

Such an interesting discussion has stemmed from my emotional challenge of dealing with watching someone not attain their own goals.

Thank you for this Ruggie. I'm no where near my goal and have been really struggling with the direction of the main VSG forum - obviously since I said goodbye yesterday. The FB thing sent me over the edge, mostly because of how so many people (including myself) went off in every possible direction. But, the posts about people not know what vitamins to take, husbands having affairs, stalls and they don't know what to do - it all was getting to me.

I still need a break from the main forum, but I'm going to keep lurking because I agree with Frisco, many people that leave fail, and for me, failure is not a option. I need to read it all and learn more and stop letting some of the less informative post bother me.

I'm definitely still on the journey.

I SO appreciate this thread. You helped me see my own knee-jerk reaction/mistake.

I think I'm somewhere in the void - 3 months out, have lost weight, learned a lot, but not a person that newbies want to listen to. I need more time to learn and listen to others.

Thanks again.

Wow, I'm not sure what I've done to help, but I do want to say that I've enjoyed reading your posts. 

The FB and Twitter thing - don't even want to talk about it - it makes me sad.

While I did start this thread about newbies going off on a failure course, you do remind me of a pet peeve that I have with "new" newbies - and I never know if I should direct my anger at the newbie, the surgeon, or the nutrionist.

Like you mention, these posts that start "I had surgery five days ago...." and end with:
- what vitamins should I take?
- what can I eat?
- what is a soft food?
- why does it hurt to drink soda?

etc -

I get how people need reinforcement, guidance, etc... but if you've already had surgery, step 1 is knowing what food to eat so you don't hurt yourself or blow a staple line!  But then before I go off, I remember that every surgeon/nutritionist has a completely different post-surgery diet plan, and we all talk about it on here, and someone logs in, sees something different than what they're told, and get easily confused..... even knowing that.... I still suspect a couple people totalling don't start preparing for post-op life until they're post-op.....

I really wish the baratric surgeons would develop a guideline for surgeons to adhere to as a group, to remove a lot of this variation.

 Thank you for bringing this conversation out and onto the maintinence board. In our space of personal healing it is impossible not to be affected by the struggle of those around us walking a similar path....I am the one on the boards that posts about crying in stores when I see people struggling to move so I understand it....just like the work we see in menatl health and domestic violence each person must find their way, ultimately they must do it alone. The beacons of light provided along the way refresh them and give them strength but that is all we can really be...beacons they have to save themselves. Thank you for your compassion and the light you hold high in this journey. In short: You ROCK!

You are so awesome b/c you care. I still do feel bad for these people, but I just can't feel sorry for them anymore or really post anymore about it b/c I find myself getting *****y, and that is a turn off (for me AND them).