What do you do when you see a newbie on a failure course?

Dear Maintainers -

I hope it's alright for me to post here even though I'm not yet done with my own loss journey yet (although I sure am getting there).  I've got this issue that I've spoken with a few others about (like Elina and Frisco) but I just wanted to continue to get more opinions.

Here's the deal.  I'm having a really hard time.

When I was pre-op, I had certain expectations and thoughts that were too idealistic or just wrong.  I was grateful to the 'veterans' who helped show me other paths and philosophies that could increase my chances of success.  I want to pay it forward.

Lately, I've been trying to do a bit of that myself.  Responding to individual threads when people stay they're having trouble.  Every now and then, I'll even try to start a new discussion thread, like how you have to be kinda militant to be above average in your weight loss journey (which I really stole from Frisco).  While there wasn't a lot of disagreement in my actual thread, it did spawn a great deal of push-back threads for the next few days.   And that's when I came to this realization.  I'm starting to see differences in those people that I would bet are going to lose 90-100% of their excess weight, and those that are going to stall out at six months.

Well, I'm naive and try to provide support to both groups of people.  First group loves it, second group hates it.  Often, my advice is taken as a direct criticism or even a threat to what they consider their way of life (a threat to their love of food).

I'm not going to link any of these directly; it's not my intention to call out any specific people, but here's the mentality I'm facing:

I point out the average sleever loses "only" 70% of their body weight and list the studies.  Some people say "I better remain dedicated", others say "I refuse to be considered a statistic".

I say that we have to break our love affair with food and look at food as a tool, and I'm told that this person uses food to "nourish her soul" and is happy to be a "foodie". 

Recently, I was talking about the need for a person to change their diet, to eat different foods post-op than she was eating pre-op (pretty much full carbs).  She disagreed and said "I can be healthy without having to sacrifice anything". 

When I step back and look at this from a whole, here's what I'm seeing with this sub-population of people:
 - Post-surgery, they remain food centric.  They still glorify food.
 - Post-surgery, they are still deriving a great deal of emotional satisfaction and need from food
 - Doesn't look at this journey as a commitment to a lifestyle change - at best, it's viewed as a temporary diet
 - Talks only about SIZE of food eaten, not COMPOSITION of food eaten
 - Immediately returns to: sweets, alcohol, coffee/caffeine, carbs at first availability
 - Continues to reward and 'treat' self with food rather than other mechanisms
 - "You've got to live a little, so have some cake!" at every birthday, holiday, office event, etc.
 - Higher incidence of stalling
 - These aren't usually the people I see hitting the 90-100% EWL

I mean, some of the above is kinda ok... if you're at maintenance, right?  But here's the deal, if I ask these people "Is it important to you to loose all your excess fat?" then respond "Of course!!!"

So... my inclination is to reach out to them, try to help them before they become depressed and disillusioned, and feeling like a failure.  I loathe those posts we all see in the forums.... you know, "HELP ME!!!!!!!!" or "DON'T DO WHAT I DID".... or "I'm 3 years old and regained half my weight!!!!"   "My SLEEVE is BROKEN!!!!".  Perhaps some of you hate seeing these posts too... because we remember our other diets when we did regain weight and did feel like failures.

So I reach out to them, explain the philosophy and the need to end your love affair with food.  Stop filling the empty hole in your heart with food.  Start loving yourself and investing in yourself, and reward yourself with sleeping in late, having sex, buying a fun trinket, a million things that aren't based on eating your reward.  Break the cycle of "I had a hard day, I deserve some ice cream".

And this sub-group of people do not like when I say these things.  I take pains to be supportive rather than condemning and philosophical rather than judgmental.  Regardless, I have failed to sway this mentality.

So the problem I'm having is that this kills me a bit - knowing how I would feel if I had WLS and didn't get past 50 or 60%, or had WLS and regained half of it back.  I want to help these folks be more successful, but now I think I'm wasting time by trying to help a horse to water who won't drink.

Have any of you had a similar epiphany, and come to this same conclusion?  That you just have to drop those people since they don't want that kind of help?  If so, do you stop feeling bad for them?  Or is there an effective way to approach them?

Basically, I've found, if they are still having a love affair with food, then nothing I saw or do sways them.  Makes me really sad.  Honestly, makes me want to give up and stop posting.  I think it reminds me too much of my past, when people tried to help me with my weight and I wasn't listening.

Bah.

Ruggie, I think you answered your own question:

Basically, I've found, if they are still having a love affair with food, then nothing I saw or do sways them.

I think that is really the crux of it. Some people go into this surgery ready to change, to do what it takes, to learn, etc. Those people, even if their program isn't supportive, will read and process and learn from what the successful losers and maintainers are doing and make  changes themselves. Then there are the people who have put up walls--they are unwilling, for whatever reason, to make changes. They are NOT going to change until something makes those walls crumble, and it's unlikely to be something you say that breaks down the defenses. So all you can do, in my opinion, is say what has worked for you and leave it at that. And only do that when it works for YOU. I guess my feeling is that a lot of people do leave these boards because they get frustrated, but that's kind of throwing the baby out with the bath water! I've hung around longer than most, because this is my support system. And I find that even 4 1/2 years out, I learn from other vets. I do try to offer some experience when I think it might be useful or appreciated but I've learned to let go of most of it.

As you said, you've been in that position--people tried to help you, but you weren't listening. Then something changed and you became ready to do what it takes. So it's a very individual process, and yes, I think it's too bad that a growing number of people seem to be having this surgery and expecting it let them eat just like they always have. So I agree with you and feel your pain! I hope you won't get so frustrated that you don't stick around...

Lizanne

Thinlizzy -

I just wanted to thank you for your wonderful and supportive reply.  It's difficult to disagree with anything you've said.  One thing I can do that you mention (and that Elina has previously mentioned to me) is that instead of "preaching" at them, to say "Hey, this is what I did and it worked for me" and just leave it at that and move on.  I see the wisdom in that.

I just hate when they hurt themselves.  This guy came to my support group - he's two weeks out from sleeving.  Right at 13 or 14 days.  He complains about the horrible pains he's having when he's eating.  Well bud, what are you eating?  Oh, 4 ounces of hamburger like I'm supposed to.

....

We all mildly yelled at him in a polite manner, but he then wanted to know what food was ok for him to order at the Cheesecake Factory ... and we never saw him again.   It's that kind of stuff that really bugs me, but I suppose my problem is learning to just let go, because you're right, those walls have to crumble first.

 Ruggie,

ThinLizzy nailed it - you answered yourself.  How commendable that you care enough to want to help everyone!  That is wonderful.  l know how you feel when you realize that you can't help everyone, also. l never listened to anyone until l was ready to.  Hell, l would go out of my way to do the opposite just for spite.  'Don't tell me what to do!' was my mentallity. Thankfully l broke thru that. (ln my own sweet time)!

l saw a post on Pinterest the other day that l fell in love with:  'Never reward yourself with food. You're not a dog.'  l'd love to post this all over the world!

lf it makes a diffrence, l try to read all of your posts, and you've helped me alot.  l'm still so new and need all the help l can get sometimes! Especially from fellow sleevers.

=)

That is a brilliant message, about not rewarding yourself with food, and I know exactly who on the main VSG board would find that to be 'highly insulting'!!!  I love that.  Is this what you saw?



Wow, it's so nice of you to say that I've helped you somehow - thanks ReadyNow. 

 YES!! The one l saw had an actual picture of a dog on it, but YES!  l haven't been able to get it out of my head ever since.  Sometimes you can get knocked over with a feather, you know?

 And you HAVE helped me - you ask the hard questions that l don't even want to ask myself sometimes.  You write very well, and make me really delve for answers.  l appreciate it!!

I do know.

 Love this, do you think people will get their panties in a bunch if I change my avi to this? Not that I really care about other peoples panties 

Do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it!!!