black and white thinking anybody?

I had an interesting conversation with a fellow sleever yesterday and I came to see in her something that has changed within myself.  Isn't it interesting how we can see in others what we most need to understand for our own growth?  Anyway, back to the topic at hand.  I realized that every single time that I had regained weight after losing it in the past (before VSG), could be traced to my black and white thinking.  What I mean is that I could diet to goal and even maintain for a time, but once I slipped up, even a little, I was triggered to eat the way I did before the diet.  Of course the weight always returned.  As many of you have have suffered through my losing story know, I was the perfect dieter.  I stayed on plan almost 100% of the time.  And even in early maintenance, I ate what I was told to eat and only cheated when my own dietitian told me eat more of certain foods to stop the weight loss.  What has been amazing to me, is that I was not triggered to continue eating after I reintroduced certain foods back into my diet.  I have been able to eat "mindfully and in moderation" foods that normally would trigger me to go off program.  I could wave my hands in the air and scream "Hallelujah, I've been cured", but I don't believe it's this easy.  I am trying to figure out what has changed so that I am not blindsided by it if it should change right back.  I want to understand why I no longer experience this white and black thinking that always doomed all of my prior weight loss attempts.  You guys are an amazing and thoughtful group and I thought I would ask for ideas.  Do you think that it's possible that just the simple reduction of ghrelin is the answer?  If not, then what would be your best guess as to what happened here?  I am still eating reasonably and mindfully and I am allowing myself to have treats at will without getting triggered or obsessing about it.  So now of course, I am obsessing about the fact that I am not obsessing.  Anybody else see any humor in this?  :)

I can absolutely relate to that.   I use to be ON a diet or OFF a diet... No carbs or bingeing on carbs.. exercising compulsively or a couch potato...   2 speeds  : STOPPED or FULL SPEED AHEAD!   I feel much less that way than I did but the obsessive thinking about what I am doing, or not doing or should be doing still plagues me some.  I'm convinced that the obsessive thinking may sometimes be really no different of a coping mechanism ( what would be be doing, thinking about, feeling if we WEREN"T obsessing,about foods, behaviors, thoughts?)  It still keeps us distracted from something.   Maybe the gherlin decrease helps some with not falling into the old habits, but for me so does liking my new thinner body, not having space for junk food and a strong dislike of vomiting LOL, and mostly just new habits and skills for dealing with stress and day to day life.    Very interesting topic...  I will think about it some more!  Thanks for sharing it.     :-)   Amy  

You are making an interesting point.  I never thought about the obsessive thinking as being another coping strategy, but it makes perfect sense since we would not be doing it if there was no pay off for us in the end.  Maybe it keeps the fantasy that we have control over everything from disappearing.  I have noticed that this "on or off" dieting seems to be practiced by otherwise very successful and together people.  I wonder how many of us are oldest or only children?  I wonder if this is somehow related to needing control.  I am not sure here, just looking around and sharing some possibilities.

I wonder if the need to stay in control is lessened after the VSG because the VSG carries us in the beginning and we don't have to make as many choices.  I wonder if knowing that there is an outside (or in this case inside) authority, our smaller stomachs, that we can relax and just eat mindfully without white knuckling or much willpower. 

Hi Elina;
Just got back from our guru's support group and he was talking about what makes sucessful maintainers and he says that throught  the course of losing the weight we have learned something that we hadn't really gotten before and that is impulse control. I thought hmmm, I am not sure I totally agree with that because while I do have impulse control about food that I didn't have before, I think the ghrelin reduction and the lack of ghrelin spiking which occurs after traditional dieting makes a big difference.  I consider myself a fairly accomplished person and exercised considerable disclipine in many aspects of my life but this was the thing that I always failed in. So yes I think I got better impulse control with respect to food but never could have done it without the restriction plus the reduction in ghrelin.  So thats my opinion.

And if you have to obsess, its good to obsess about not obsessing rather than obsessing about peanut butter cups.  

Diane

Diane, I totally agree with your assessment here.  I don't believe that I have somehow magically learned impulse control after VSG.  I am well aware that I had and still have wonderful impulse control in just about every other aspect of my life.  Food was the only area of my life that I could not get control over.  I think the reduction in ghrelin and a smaller capacity is the big difference here in my ability to stick to a program.  The part that is a bit confusing to me is why I don't feel triggered by food that has always triggered me before now.  For example, for the first time in my life I can go off plan for a special treat and then go right back to plan.  Why is that?  It never worked that way before.  It is possible that the reduction of ghrelin gives me enough time to think about my choices and make better ones?  Is it that I have now learned to trust myself to make better choices and so a small setback doesn't fluster me or bring up the eating patterns I was used to before?  Something has changed and I no longer feel constricted by my food choices.  This is a new freedom.  Don't get me wrong, I still eat on plan most of the time and I weigh myself everyday to make sure I am not getting too ****y here.  But still, this freedom to go off plan and not get triggered both physically and psychologically to eat is something new for me.

Yep, there is really something more going on here than just learning impulse control. The months after surgery where you are really forced by restriction and health to change bad eating habits certainly helps. But I think there really are ghrelin and other hormonal issues going on here. And look at the diffence in weight regain statistics for rny and vsg patients. The hormonal thing is why we couldn't keep weight off in the past with traditional dieting. I really believe this. But I also think stress is a big factor and I believe I have been more successful because some years before my surgery I dumped my high stress job and made a big lifestyle change. But I thought that would enable me to get more active and lose weight and I didn't lose weight. Life still has issues to throw at you though lower stress is a godsend.  

Dr. C thinks the difference between more successful patients and less successful ones is the change in mindset and willingness to work at new habits. He is right there I think since some patients have surgery and expect to never feel like they have to make effort or exercise discipline. And yet exercising that discipline is somehow so much easier with the sleeve.

Another factor not to be underestimated is seeing all those that have gone before us who have been successful and realizing if they can do it we can too. And they say your doctor doesn't operate on your head but mine kind of did because he convinced me that this could work for me and I believed him and believing you can make it work is a big factor.

Great topic.

Diane

I can so relate! For years and years, I was a black and white dieter. And I agree with what Diane wrote, too. We are accomplished and successful women, perfectly able to control impulses in other areas--why has the whole food thing been such an exception?

I don't know the answer, but like all complex issues, I suspect it's a combination of several things: the minimized ghrelin to curb that insatiable appetite, restriction to prevent overeating at a sitting, and new learned habits. Plus sheer panic at the the thought of regaining.

I remember when I first when into LapSF to meet Dr. Jossart. As I was discussing the pros and cons of all the surgeries, he kept asking what seminars I'd been to since I was so well informed. (answer: none). And when I met with the nutritionist, she asked about my formal nutrition training since I seemed to know all the ins and outs there (answer: none). The point is that I have no problem learning information--after a thousand diets, I've learned how to lose weight and maintain the loss, but I couldn't make myself do it long term. So far, knock on wood, I have been able to maintain.

I am not cured, though.  I get triggered and obsessed more easily now than I did a couple of years ago, when I just enjoyed food but could forget about it. Return of ghrelin? Who knows?  But that's probably where the new habits come in to deal with it. I just don't keep trigger foods around the house. I can't. For example, tomorrow is my best friend's birthday party at our house and she wants a pineapple upside down cake with vanilla ice cream. I will bake it for her. We will have ****tails and hors d'oeuvres and a yummy dinner and cake. And then, if she won't take the leftover cake/ice cream home, I will throw it away tomorrow night. That is one thing I have learned. I may no longer eat the whole thing in one sitting, but it will still call to me to eat it slice by slice, so I will remove it!

Great topic!
Lizanne

 
This is kinda on topic.......

Lizanne.... you have reminded me how I (maybe we) used to think.......

Entertaining and leftovers.......while food is being consumed and it's becoming clear how much leftovers there is going to be.....I was already making plans in my head what a great time I was gonna have with the leftovers that nite when everyone was gone!!!!

Hmmm....Start off with watching some TV eating the leftover Clam dip with potato chips.......thinking the leftover steaks are gonna make a killer sandwich with that great bread!!!! And what will we do with the leftover half of cake or pie.......hmmmm..... midnight coffee and a couple pieces of cake !!!! And look at all that pasta I could have for breakfast !!!!

Or when catering leaves our studio after a lunch service.....there might be 5-6 tins filled with food leftover.......

I wonder why I got fat????

frisco

Totally with you on this one! I loved cooking big dinners just so that I could pig out on the leftovers and would make sure that I made extra just for that purpose. When I cook a big meal, I've never been that hungry for it that night, which works great now if I make sure the leftovers are either a)gone or b)on plan. I love cooking...but tonight my friend also requested Zachary's Pizza from Berkeley (do you know this place? AMAZING!). In the past, I would order an extra one just for the leftovers. Tonight, I will have one piece, mostly eating the topping and give away any leftovers.

I do think my mindset has changed a bit in that I don't have a sense of urgency that I MUST eat this (insert food item here) now...there will be other pizzas and cakes that I can have a bite of if I want in the future...

Lizanne

Frisco, I still find myself thinking this way and I hate it!  But now, for the most part, I have control of it.  I keep hoping that that old mind-set will disappear with time, but so far, not. 

But, back on topic, I feel like having had the surgery and having lost the weight, I just CAN'T let myself go back to those old habits.  I think that I am more conscious of food and habits than before VSG even though I considered myself to be an expert in dieting.  I'm more aware of my body and my mind when it comes to food now.  That doesn't mean it's any easier, but at least I'm able to do it.

I'm very thankful for my sleeve and the restriction it provides.  I hope I am never able to eat more than I do now.