The Phenomenology of Vanity

I've noticed what appears to be an interesting phenomenon on OH and in various interactions with others in the WLS world.  I'm curious about what other people think about this because it seems like a strange paradox to me.

When some of us are very overweight, it seems like some of us let vanity go to a degree.  Perhaps some of us aren't obsessively looking at our bodies and every day critiquing our bodies but instead some of us are ignoring the mirror and continuing to eat poorly and not exercise or do anything to change our appearance.  Then when some of us start losing weight it seems like all of a sudden we become hyper-critical of our bodies and our appearance.

All of a sudden our stomachs look "terrible" when in reality our stomachs look much better.  But maybe our perception changes and we become even more critical.  While everyone is telling us how fantastic we look, in our head we feel worse.  Our clothes aren't good enough, even though we wore what we could when we were heavier and didn't care.

Why does it seem like for some people at their highest weights they were perhaps not super happy with their appearance but at peace enough with it to not do anything for long periods of time to change their appearance.  Then after starting to lose weight, nothing is right and it seems some people get more and more critical about their appearance?

I'm not saying this is a bad or a good thing, or that this applies to everyone, to be clear.  I'm just curious why it seems like there are fewer people who lose weight and get LESS critical about their appearance, and that most seem to get MORE critical and put more effort in after they start losing weight? 

I'm curious what others think about possible reasons for this phenomenon?  Another parallel phenomenon would be how some people spend many years at a high weight and appear to stop trying to be any other size, but then those same people later become very dedicated to being as tiny as possible when earlier a much larger size was an acceptable way to be for them.

I can only speak for myself - but I must confess that I always WAS vain and it's worse than ever now! One of the first items installed in my new office was a full-length mirror, so that I can check out my outfit before heading out to the lecture hall. Disgusting degree of self-absorption actually! Really! I just looked over from my desk to check out my profile in the mirror!

But here's the thing - I actually looked at myself a lot in the mirror as a fat person, and often I liked what I saw - now mind you, I was adept at only looking at the most flattering angle. Now that I have dropped some poundage though - I am a total camera ***** and spend WAY too much time admiring myself, in photos and in the mirror. I do see the wrinkles and the deflated skin, and the flaps and the sags, but honestly they don't bother me all that much 90% of the time.

I KNOW I look better, and although I always took care and interest with what I wore, I am now able to wear, and look attractive in, cuts of clothes that I have always liked and which were either unavailable or just not flattering at 284 pounds / size 26. Believe me, although I like my girly dresses etc (and always have been able to rock a wrap dress style), NOTHING makes me happier than being able to wear slim-cut jeans with a tucked in button-down shirt or t-shirt and look good! (And here I will make a virtual offering to the goddess of shapewear who makes this possible! All hail!)

I think that what has been protective for me in terms of having mostly positive feelings about my body and appearance, both when fat and currently, are the following:

1) A fairly realistic self-assessment. I am able to see the flaws, to recognize that everyone has them, to forgive myself for being the imperfect being that I am, and to also be able to see and appreciate that which is beautiful in myself.

2) A long-standing practice of being grateful to this body for the life experiences through which it has carried me - even at my fattest, I walked (although often painfully) all over the great cities of Europe, swam miles at the local pool, carried and gave birth to my daughter, enjoyed a pretty good intimate life, etc.

3) A healthy skepticism for the beauty-industrial complex. I am prone to buying too many face creams and cosmetics because I think they are a ton of fun, but I get that the pursuit of perfection, (without being 19, genetically blessed, well-airbrushed and extensively photshopped), is a fool's errand. I am content to be happy in the skin I have, even if some of it IS rather shar-pei like at the moment.

4) A lack of fat-phobia. I didn't hate my fat self, don't hate the memory of being fat now, and don't engage in self-blame about my fatness ... and I am actually quite proud of all that I accomplished as a fat woman despite the rampant discrimination against obese people that we all have encountered. This may be why I am not all that motivated to be as tiny as possible. I am now a size 10-12 and pretty content here, (my ruminations about weight loss and scale angst notwithstanding) and don't, at all, have any desire to be below a size 8.

5) A sense of humour. I used to get over any hesitation to expose my fat, pale, wrinkly butt at the swimming pool with the rationalization that at least my presence that day would be a gift to all of the other women who could now breathe a sigh of relief that at least SOMEONE there was fatter than they were.  My daughter thinks it is a laugh riot to watch me do the Charleston in my underpants so that she can see the ferocious rippling of my thighs back and forth and back and forth. What the hell - it is kind of funny!

6) A more global perspective and the willingness to go out in the world anyway: I learned that ALL women in our society seem to be socialized to be self critical, so when I was feeling that way I could chalk it up to transitory depression, hormones, or the fallout of living in a society that is really toxic to women with respect to size and appearance. Then, I would slap on some makeup and a push-up bra and go out anyway.



So wow - that got long and doesn't even answer your question. My response is, we are told in every possible way that we are worthless and that beauty is not possible if we are fat. So sometimes we believe it and act that way. Then if we get thinner, we equate worth with smallness. BUT, as with many normal-sized women, smaller is never small enough, and our preoccupation with our flaws prevents us from appreciating the health, functional, and cosmetic benefits of a smaller frame.

It takes a long time to stop feeling self-critical and self-hating and worthless, especially if we have spent our lives feeling that way. I actually think that self-hatred can become a habitual way of thinking about ourselves - after losing weight we may transfer our hatred to our wrinkly skin, or the one fat deposit that won't scram, or our overall size or whatever - but I think the root cause is a core belief that we are not good enough, no matter what and not worthy of self-love, self-admiration and self-appreciation. I think we hated how we felt and how were treated when we were fat, and one way deal with that is to be pretty focused on not being fat ever again.

I personally believe that ANYONE who has been a fat person in this culture and come out of it with a shred of self-esteem is a hero! I personally believe that ANYONE, no matter what their size, can be beautiful. I believe that ANYONE who continues to go out into the world every day and do their thing, even when they feel ugly, even if they feel too fat to be worth anything, is demonstrating tremendous courage in the face of terrible prejudice.

 I think this has been somewhat true for me.  I think it has to do with feeling so incredibly helpless about my weight prior to WLS.  I had given up the hope of ever losing weight, and was really working on accepting reality and being loving towards the body I had.  

Now that my body has changed so dramatically, I have had to work on developing a whole new relationship with this body, and I ain't there yet.  I'm still getting to know this new stomach and appetite that changes daily, that has become a bit unpredictable.   The fear of having that out-of-control feeling is so frightening, it sometimes manifests as hating the much smaller stomach that I now have -- I SHOULD BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE SIZE OF THIS STOMACH, DAMMIT.  Every day that I can't is a reminder of how close to the old me I really am. 

Wow Margo, that was incredibly deep and insightful! I think you made a lot of sense in explaining some of this to me. I can relate to what you said here:

"I am actually quite proud of all that I accomplished as a fat woman despite the rampant discrimination against obese people that we all have encountered. This may be why I am not all that motivated to be as tiny as possible."

This is very much how I feel, and so it boggles my mind how some people go from accepting themselves at a much larger size, to what "appears" to me to being much less accepting of themselves at a smaller size. I would think that the self-criticism would be less and not more?

I think this part of what you said may really have hit the nail on the head:

"I actually think that self-hatred can become a habitual way of thinking about ourselves - after losing weight we may transfer our hatred to our wrinkly skin, or the one fat deposit that won't scram, or our overall size or whatever - but I think the root cause is a core belief that we are not good enough, no matter what and not worthy of self-love, self-admiration and self-appreciation. I think we hated how we felt and how were treated when we were fat, and one way deal with that is to be pretty focused on not being fat ever again."

This sounds like a very good theory! The part that confuses me is that I often see that people seem to work harder or make more effort or be more uncomfortable with what seems like less "flaws" then they started with. Do you think some people become more uncomfortable or it just that it appears that way because the same amount of criticism dosage-wise is directed at a smaller number of "flaws"?

I dunno - maybe because we perceive it as being logical for someone to have self-hatred around fat, but it doesn't seem to make as much sense when it's about wrinkles and stuff? You questioned the logic of being more self-critical after losing weight whan we actually are looking better - well that is really a matter of perception and an example of the assumption that thinner = prettier. My belly was much "prettier" when fat, smooth, and rounded than it is deflated and wrinkly. I live in a world where that rounded profile is considered unsightly and where clothing styles don't flatter it. Thus I look "better" with this wrinkly shapless bag of tummy skin contained by shapewear and smoothed into a snug pair of jeans. So maybe it isn't a smaller number of flaws, but rather flaws that we might think shouldn't be the target of as much hatred as fat ought to be? Maybe our perception that some peoplke become more critical after losing weight does not make sense because we still hold a core belief that fat is our FAULT and thus we SHOULD feel shame and disgust about it, but that losing fat, a "virtuous" act should leave us feeling less ashamed - so our continued self criticism seems illogical?

Maybe some people imagine that all problems associated with appearance and self-image will disappear with the pounds and there is a lot of disappointment when we discover that we will NEVER look the way we would have looked if we had never been obese (Never mind that we never get to look 20 again either - except for those few who are IN their 20's!)

I know that I have had to do a certain amount of mourning for the the youthful slim body that I never had and never will have, because I am not so youthful anymore - Doesn't matter WHAT the scale says -the birth certificate doesn't lie!)

Yes, you are definitely right that it is my perception someone would probably feel they looked better after losing weight, and then it might seem logical that they should feel less critical. 

 I wonder if it is the case that people don't feel they look better after losing weight or something else?  I can totally relate to mourning that youthful slim body.. even if you have loads of plastic surgery then you will have tons of scars.  It is a sobering thought indeed..

I think it's very difficult to put into words the phenomenon that I am describing. I'm not sure that vanity was the best choice of words for describing it. What made me think of this topic is seeing someone this morning post about spending more money to tailor a pair of pants.. she said she wouldn't have done that at her higher weight.

It almost seems to me like the more weight someone loses, the more they seem to want to invest in themselves and their appearance, and the more they want to spend money on plastic surgery, clothes, gym memberships, etc. Perhaps they never saw that they were worth that at their higher weights.. maybe they felt like why bother.

But it seems like for some people losing weight sets into motion this ever growing need for more and more changes to improve appearance, above and beyond the great changes that come along with losing weight. It's like a restlessness with one's appearance.

I don't have this to a great degree, but I do have it.. I do daydream about plastic surgery and getting things "fixed" down the road. Whereas before appearance-wise I had grown to accept myself as I was and didn't look in the mirror and feel as much of a desire to "fix" anything.

I think I get what you're getting at... but I think I'm the opposite..

Prior to surgery.. I was very aware of how horrible I looked... I avoided looking at myself in the mirror when I'd get out of the shower and cover myself up with clothing. I would wear clothes that weren't always flattering on me, but the fit and that's what mattered. I rarely wore make up because I just didn't care... I WAS LAZY!!! I always got told oh you have such a pretty face... but nothing ever about my body.. which I don't blame them.

Now.. where I'm at thus far.. I more apt to stop and look at myself in the mirror when I get out of the shower and notice things like.. damn my stomach is getting wrinkly look and I'm rocking a sweet set of bat wings, but it's the positives in my actual body it's self I see.. like I don't have this giant roll on my side, tummy doesn't stick out as far as it use to, I can see my collar bones, I have ankle bones now and my thighs don't touch together quite as far down as they use to!

I am much more confident in myself and how I look. Even though I'm not in regular sizes.. I know I can go to any store that has plus sizes and find something. I will admit.. I'm still stuck on my tees and jeans, but now I'm wearing tees that are a little more fitted. I'm not always trying to cover up my ass with my shirt. I'm working on branching out in the clothing I wear, but it's tough.. I'm pretty Plain Jane.

So all that being said I guess I don't fit into this phenomenon... Ask me again in a few months things may have changed...

I know things might get UGLY on this journey as far as how my body looks, but nothing will ever be more ugly on me than 356 pounds!!

Hi Kelby.. yes.. having lost this much weight so far for the most part I look into the mirror and see nothing but improvements.. I'm definitely not more self critical.  Your experience so far echoes mine. 

But I do feel the stirrings of that restlessness in my appearance.. like what I was content with before, now I feel I want to work on more.. whereas before it was never really a big deal. 

It's like that taste of looking better and you want more and more.. if that makes sense.  For me it's not a big deal (yet) but I can sense that restlessness inside me.

 Now that you put it to more simple terms!! lol I totally get that.. that's why I said give me a few months and ask me this again!!! lol 

Seeing how I look now definitely does give me more motivation to "do better"