What is a normal thiamine value

I've always taken my Bs with everything else with no issues absorbing it.

--g

 Awesome!  Thanks, Gina.  You're great!

be careful with B complex - yes B 1 is essential at 100mg minimum to prevent B 1 deficiency and once someone has it, you actually need 300mg daily (I have been taking 300mg daily for 3 years) but taking B complex can be dangerous - B6 can get toxic and most doctors dont test B6, and if post ops just keep taking it without getting it checked, toxicity sets in fast.  The only B we really need in the complex is the B1

I don't think a short time on a B-complex is going to hurt but what I really wish is that would do a good blood pannel on all Tonya's B vitamins so they might see if there is something going on there.

--g

I agree, but usually a multi has enough B6 for even those of us who have had WLS....I simply do not take a B complex because I don't want to chance the toxicity. Esp since peripheral neuropathy can be caused by excessive B6.

But what is a toxic level??? For more info on B6 in general: ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB6-HealthProfessional/

However, chronic administration of 1–6 g oral pyridoxine per day for 12–40 months can cause severe and progressive sensory neuropathy characterized by ataxia (loss of control of bodily movements) [7,29-32]. Symptom severity appears to be dose dependent, and the symptoms usually stop if the patient discontinues the pyridoxine supplements as soon as the neurologic symptoms appear. Other effects of excessive vitamin B6 intakes include painful, disfiguring dermatological lesions; photosensitivity; and gastrointestinal symptoms, such as nausea and heartburn [1,2,29].

Liz

thanks so much for this information.  I get so upset when I see surgeons and PCP blanketly prescribing B complex 100 to patients for life and then never testing there B vitamins especially B6.  Most think ALL B vitamins are water soluable and B6 is not.  As you wrote, it gets toxic.  All we need is 100 of vitamin B1 daily to prevent B1 deficiency and everything else is in our multi except our B12 which we all know we take either sublingual or via injections.

I get really nervous because I have to take 100mg of B6 daily to prevent Kidney stones but this was ordered by a Kidney stone specialist based on a 24 hour urine andnd the make up of my kidney stones.  I have had 3 kidney stone surgeries (blastings) causing me to urinary sepsis and horrendous bleeding for 10 days requiring transfusions, so we need to make sure my stones dont get bigger or try to pass and get stuck which happened once.

they test my B6 frequently and althought it is high, it isnt toxic high.  Normal goes up to 24, and I range anywhere from 40 to 50.  My Nephrologist said this is okay and so did my surgeon and Endocrinologist.  So, for now, I keep taking it.  I will read your article - I havent had a chance yet - I am really interested in knowing more on exactly what is considered toxicity.

thanks for the information.

You are right, I get all my B vitamins checked - B1, B2, B3, B6, B12 - folic acid - not sure the number, B2 and B3 are tough to get done but my Endocrinologist sends it out to a special lab for me. She is great, she does all my labs for me including all the vitamins and minerals = she is very thorough plus all my crazy hormones due to hypothyroid, hypopituitary (which messes with my cortisol and ACTH as well as all the pituitary hormones) - and she basically follows everything like a PCP would so I end up with 15 vials every couple of months.

I agree that a short course of B complex is fine but what worries me is when people take it from day 1 and take it for years as part of there regimine and never get any B vitamins tested other than B12. So many surgeons or PCP's dont check B1, B6 or even folic acid. They dont even tell post ops to take B1 from the beginning. I was B1 deficient after 4 months but it was treated because I get it tested, the same as my selenium, which most surgeons dont test either.

thiamine (b1) can be done 2 way - via serum which is 9-44 or whole blood which I dont remember the range - I can look it up but it is in the hundreds = I think up to 160 or something like that.  Either way, you want it to be at the top of the range, not the low end or below.  B1 deficiency is very dangerous, like B12 deficiency.  It can cause nerve damage, left long enough can be permanent.  It can cause cognitive problems.  I have seen people let it go long enough and lose the ability to walk and think clearly.

Your 16 isnt abnormal but it isnt great.  Are you taking any other than in your multi?  You should be taking a minimum of 100mg a day.  When I got down to 12, my NUT put me on 300mg per day and I have been taking that dose for the past 3 years since to maintain it.  Now I usually run around 50 which is where they want it.

You want a B1 on its on own, not in a B complex.  The b complex has a lot of things you dont want or need.  B6 is somethign if you dont need, you dont want because it is the one  B vitamin that isn****er soluable and gets toxic.  The other B vitamins you get in your multi and the B 12, you cant absorb in the B complex anyway - you need either the sublingual or injection.  The B1 capsules, you can absorb better than the tablets.

 After my plastic surgery in December, my thiamine tanked.  Since then, Kaiser is now recommending that every WLS patient take 100mg of Thiamine daily.

Randy, thanks for the B complex info. I always figure that more is better. I will back off of the B complex.

You are very welcome.  Most people dont realize that B6 isn****er soluable like all the other B vitamins.  If you keep taking it, and you dont need it, it builds up and you can get toxic.

The only time it is necessary to take is for prevention of kidney stones but that needs to be ordered by a doctor because it is only for a certain of kidney stones.  It is for calcium oxylate stones which is the type that gastric bypass patients get = they arent sure why.  My urologist said that she has tons of gastric bypass patients and they all have the same type of stones.  We cant eliminate oxylate and they build up in our systems.  The B6 helps us get rid of them.  I had an rediculously high oxylate level - I also have to take my calcium with my meals to help bind with the oxylates from my food to help eliminate them.

I also have a problem with my citrate level - I think it was too low, so another reason for my calcium, and must be calcium citrate to get the citrate level up and the third thing I have to do is take Potassium citrate at bedtime to also help  bring up the citrate level.  It is a special type of potassium called UroCit K - just for Kidney stone prevention, that is all it is used for. It is a horse pill.

All in all, these things are all helping.  I still have stones (Had 3 blastings last year but since taking all this, no more surgeries needed) but have had constant UTI's since to the point where they are resistant to oral antibiotics and I now need IV antibiotics everytime I get an infection which seems to be every 3 or 4 weeks.  Which really sucks because I have to go in the hospital.  I was in June, July, the beginning of August and I just came in again last night.  I am getting really tired of this.  I just got discharged 11 days ago and I am back again.  The kidney pain is horrendous.  This is why you guys never see me anymore.

I will try to post in the next few days of what is going on and explain more.  This isnt what I planned on writing in this post, it just started coming out.  I am overtired, I haven't been to sleep.  I came in yestarday to the ER at 5 pm and got my room at 3am, it is now 6:30am and I havent been to sleep yet.  I am exhausted.

talk more later.  Hope you are well