cross post - hi protein -low carb gallstones link
(deactivated member)
on 6/27/11 6:25 pm, edited 6/27/11 6:26 pm
on 6/27/11 6:25 pm, edited 6/27/11 6:26 pm
This was on the main board today : interesting . People getting gallstones WITHOUT gallbladders ... YIKES ... Pains , hospitalizations ... surgeries ...
Theresa whole thread like this .. I'm just not adept enough to post it here ...
Honestly its enough to scare ME away from trying to low carb ... especially FATTY low carb,
You can KEEP your bacon ya'll .
 AS1215Pleasant Hill, CA Fernando Otero VSG (05/07/07) Member Since: 03/01/07 [Latest Posts] |
Post Date: 6/26/11 10:02 pm Hi I'm 4 years post op. I lost over 90 lbs and currently are 10 pounds above my original goal. I had my gallbladder removed 15 years ago. About two months ago I refocused and did the 5 day pouch test and followed it to a T. It was super helpful to breaking the carb cycle I had gotten myself into. I went on to lose and keep off a total of 10 lbs. I continued with high protein and low carb. Last month I had shoulder surgery to repair my rotator cuff and got off my eating cycle. Actually I lost my appetite and went on strong psi meds that caused nausea and constipation. Not fun. Anyway, the point of my long story was to ask you folks if you have suffered any adverse reactions due to our high protein low carb diet? I went to the ER in an ambulance twice in a week thinking I was having a heart attack. I am 44 in excellent health. My pain was sharp and I. The chest behind my breastbone. Then it became so bad I had trouble breathing. I was paralyzed with pain. After several tests the verdict is loose gall stones. I have an MRCP scheduled for tomorrow to confirm it. My liver enzymes shot up over 600. Normal for me is like 17 and the range is under 35. So, I did some research on low carb high protein diets and i have read they could cause liver, kidney and gall bladder/stone problems. Have any of you experienced trouble you can tie to this type of diet? Or more uniquely do you have gall stones without having a gall bladder? I had the vertical sleeve gastrectomy may 2007. Thanks for reading all!
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Theresa whole thread like this .. I'm just not adept enough to post it here ...
Honestly its enough to scare ME away from trying to low carb ... especially FATTY low carb,
You can KEEP your bacon ya'll .
It is scarey but so is dying from obesity related things.
When I had my gallbladder issues which resulted in getting it out was back in the 80s when I was doing WW. That was way before the point system and it was about the most balanced diet on the planet. Still had issues. So I'm not sure it is really related to high protein, low carb. Fat may have something to do with it because the gall bladder does something with fat.
I think it is just one more piece of information we need to tuck away so if we have issues we can take care of ourselves. More proof we need knowledge because the Drs don't necessarily know about us.
When I had my gallbladder issues which resulted in getting it out was back in the 80s when I was doing WW. That was way before the point system and it was about the most balanced diet on the planet. Still had issues. So I'm not sure it is really related to high protein, low carb. Fat may have something to do with it because the gall bladder does something with fat.
I think it is just one more piece of information we need to tuck away so if we have issues we can take care of ourselves. More proof we need knowledge because the Drs don't necessarily know about us.
66 yrs young, 4'11" hw 220, goal 120 met at 12 months, cw 129 learning Maintainance
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Weight loss and low fat seem to be contributors to gall stones. Not to say that I have seen this a couple of times in my 21 years of nursing and the 2 ladies I had seen this happen too did not have wls or following any special diet. Just back luck, family history and being white and over forty.
If I remember my anatomy and physiology correctly when we eat, especially fatty foods cause the gall bladder to move bile into the gut to aid with digestion. I think this is why I was placed on actigall postop to help prevent stones due to rapid weight loss and low fat intake.
Keeping my fingers crossed, my mom had her gall bladder out in her early forties, and I am 45! But I remember her taking diet pills eating boiled chicken breast and plain breadsticks for weeks then POW!
I hope Theresa will be feeling better soon.
~Maria
SW 230 Preop 205 GW 130 LW 131 CW 135 Ht 5'1"
Good fat helps prevent gallstones.
From Medscape Medical News
High Intake of Polyunsaturated, Monounsaturated Fat May Lower Risk of Gallstones
Laurie Barclay, MD
Laurie Barclay is a freelance reviewer and writer for Medscape.
Oct. 4, 2004 -- A high intake of polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat, particularly cis fat, is associated with a reduced risk of gallstone disease, according to the results of a prospective, population-based cohort study published in the Oct. 5 issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine.
"Monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats act as inhibitors of cholesterol cholelithasis in animal experiments," write Chung-Jyi Tsai, MD, ScD, from Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, and colleagues. "Studies report that diets high in polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fatty acids relative to low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets have beneficial effects on insulin sensitivity."
In the Health Professional Follow-up Study, 45,756 men, aged 40 to 75 years in 1986, who were free of gallstone disease, completed a 131-item semiquantitive food-frequency questionnaire every two years starting in 1986. The primary outcome measure was self-reported newly diagnosed symptomatic gallstone disease.
During 14 years of follow-up, there were 2,323 new cases of gallstone disease. Compared with men in the lowest quintile of dietary intake of cis unsaturated fats, the relative risk for gallstone disease among men in the highest quintile was 0.82 (95% confidence interval [CI], 0.69 - 0.96; P for trend = .006), after adjustment for age and other potential risk factors.
Compared with men in the lowest quintile, the relative risk among men in the highest quintile of polyunsaturated fat consumption was 0.84 (95% CI, 0.73 - 0.96; P for trend = .010), and the relative risk among men in the highest quintile of monounsaturated fat consumption was 0.83 (95% CI, 0.70 - 1.00; P for trend = .01).
Study limitations were that outcomes were restricted to men with cholecystectomy or diagnostically confirmed but unremoved symptomatic gallstones, limiting generalizability; and lack of systematic diagnostic screening procedures for the presence of gallstones, probably underestimating the number of cases of gallstones.
"A high intake of polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats in the context of an energy-balanced diet is associated with a reduced risk for gallstone disease in men," the authors write. "Although the optimal amount of unsaturated fat intake is still unknown, our findings support the notion that, in dietary practice, a higher intake of cis unsaturated fats can confer health benefits."
The National Institutes of Health supported this study. The authors report no potential financial conflicts of interest.
Ann Intern Med. 2004;141:514-522
_____________________________________________________________________
From Medscape Medical News
New vs Old Contraceptives Have Similar Gallbladder Disease Risk
Laurie Barclay, MD
Freelance writer and reviewer, Medscape, LLC
Disclosure: Laurie Barclay, MD, has disclosed no relevant financial relationships.
April 18, 2011 — The risk for gallbladder disease is virtually the same with newer and older types of birth control pills, according to the results of a retrospective, comparative safety cohort study reported online April 18 in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.
"Recent concerns have been raised about the risk of gallbladder disease associated with the use of drospirenone, a fourth generation progestin used in oral contraceptives," write Mahyar Etminan, PharmD, MSc, from the Faculty of Medicine, University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada, and colleagues. "We conducted a study to determine the magnitude of this risk compared with other formulations of oral contraceptives."
Using the IMS LifeLink Health Plan Claims Database, the investigators identified women who were using an oral contraceptive containing ethinyl estradiol combined with a progestin during 1997-2009 and who had been taking the oral contraceptive continuously for at least 6 months. A Cox proportional hazards model allowed calculation of adjusted rate ratios (RRs) for gallbladder disease, defined as cholecystectomy in the primary analysis, or as hospital admission secondary to gallbladder disease in a secondary analysis.
Of 2,721,014 women in the cohort, 27,087 underwent surgical or laparoscopic cholecystectomy during follow-up. There was a small but statistically significant increase in gallbladder disease risk with 3 of the newer oral contraceptives vs levonorgestrel, an older second-generation progestin. Adjusted RRs were 1.05 for desogestrel (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.01 - 1.09), 1.20 for drospirenone (95% CI, 1.16 - 1.26), and 1.10 for norethindrone (95% CI, 1.06 - 1.14). However, ethynodiol diacetate, norgestrel, and norgestimate were not associated with any statistically significant increase in risk vs levonorgestrel.
"In a large cohort of women using oral contraceptives, we found a small, statistically significant increase in the risk of gallbladder disease associated with desogestrel, drospirenone and norethindrone compared with levonorgestrel," the study authors write. "However, the small effect sizes compounded with the possibility of residual biases in this observational study make it unlikely that these differences are clinically significant."
Limitations of this study include lack of validation of the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9), codes for gallbladder disease in most administrative databases, inability to control for body mass index and ethnicity, possible residual confounding with other known and unknown variables, and reporting bias as a possible reason for the apparent increase in gallbladder disease in people taking drospirenone.
"The surge in the number of reported cases of gallbladder disease facilitated through the media may have contributed in making drospirenone appear to be associated with a higher risk of gallbladder disease compared with older contraceptives," the study authors conclude.
The Fonds de la recherche en santé du Québec (FRSQ), the Ministère de la Santé et des Services sociaux, and the McGill University Health Center supported this study. Coauthor James Brophy, MD, PhD, is the recipient of a career award from the FRSQ. The remaining study authors have disclosed no relevant financial relationships.
CMAJ. Published online April 18, 2011. Full text
Given that the poster in question is 44 and chances are very good she is on BCP, I'd give this one more crediance than low carb.
_____________________________________________________________________
Dieting & Gallstones
Experts believe weight-loss dieting may cause a shift in the balance of bile salts and cholesterol in the gallbladder. The cholesterol level is increased and the amount of bile salts is decreased. Following a diet too low in fat or going for long periods without eating (skipping breakfast, for example), a common practice among dieters, may also decrease gallbladder contractions. If the gallbladder does not contract often enough to empty out the bile, gallstones may form.
_____________________________________________________________________
Fats
Fat is essential for the proper functioning of the body. Fats provide essential fatty acids, which are not made by the body and must be obtained from food. The essential fatty acids are linoleic and linolenic acid. They are important for controlling inflammation, blood clotting, and brain development.
_____________________________________________________________________
Of the following list, I had FOUR of the issues listed. Over 40, female, diabetes, and rapid weight loss. Apparently I also have a sluggish gallbladder. (That makes 5 out of a possible 11 causes).
Add use of birth control for almost 2 decades (see earlier article).
Causes of gallstones:
From Medscape Medical News
High Intake of Polyunsaturated, Monounsaturated Fat May Lower Risk of Gallstones
Laurie Barclay, MD
Laurie Barclay is a freelance reviewer and writer for Medscape.
Oct. 4, 2004 -- A high intake of polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fat, particularly cis fat, is associated with a reduced risk of gallstone disease, according to the results of a prospective, population-based cohort study published in the Oct. 5 issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine.
"Monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats act as inhibitors of cholesterol cholelithasis in animal experiments," write Chung-Jyi Tsai, MD, ScD, from Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, and colleagues. "Studies report that diets high in polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fatty acids relative to low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets have beneficial effects on insulin sensitivity."
In the Health Professional Follow-up Study, 45,756 men, aged 40 to 75 years in 1986, who were free of gallstone disease, completed a 131-item semiquantitive food-frequency questionnaire every two years starting in 1986. The primary outcome measure was self-reported newly diagnosed symptomatic gallstone disease.
During 14 years of follow-up, there were 2,323 new cases of gallstone disease. Compared with men in the lowest quintile of dietary intake of cis unsaturated fats, the relative risk for gallstone disease among men in the highest quintile was 0.82 (95% confidence interval [CI], 0.69 - 0.96; P for trend = .006), after adjustment for age and other potential risk factors.
Compared with men in the lowest quintile, the relative risk among men in the highest quintile of polyunsaturated fat consumption was 0.84 (95% CI, 0.73 - 0.96; P for trend = .010), and the relative risk among men in the highest quintile of monounsaturated fat consumption was 0.83 (95% CI, 0.70 - 1.00; P for trend = .01).
Study limitations were that outcomes were restricted to men with cholecystectomy or diagnostically confirmed but unremoved symptomatic gallstones, limiting generalizability; and lack of systematic diagnostic screening procedures for the presence of gallstones, probably underestimating the number of cases of gallstones.
"A high intake of polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats in the context of an energy-balanced diet is associated with a reduced risk for gallstone disease in men," the authors write. "Although the optimal amount of unsaturated fat intake is still unknown, our findings support the notion that, in dietary practice, a higher intake of cis unsaturated fats can confer health benefits."
The National Institutes of Health supported this study. The authors report no potential financial conflicts of interest.
Ann Intern Med. 2004;141:514-522
_____________________________________________________________________
From Medscape Medical News
New vs Old Contraceptives Have Similar Gallbladder Disease Risk
Laurie Barclay, MD
Freelance writer and reviewer, Medscape, LLC
Disclosure: Laurie Barclay, MD, has disclosed no relevant financial relationships.
April 18, 2011 — The risk for gallbladder disease is virtually the same with newer and older types of birth control pills, according to the results of a retrospective, comparative safety cohort study reported online April 18 in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.
"Recent concerns have been raised about the risk of gallbladder disease associated with the use of drospirenone, a fourth generation progestin used in oral contraceptives," write Mahyar Etminan, PharmD, MSc, from the Faculty of Medicine, University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada, and colleagues. "We conducted a study to determine the magnitude of this risk compared with other formulations of oral contraceptives."
Using the IMS LifeLink Health Plan Claims Database, the investigators identified women who were using an oral contraceptive containing ethinyl estradiol combined with a progestin during 1997-2009 and who had been taking the oral contraceptive continuously for at least 6 months. A Cox proportional hazards model allowed calculation of adjusted rate ratios (RRs) for gallbladder disease, defined as cholecystectomy in the primary analysis, or as hospital admission secondary to gallbladder disease in a secondary analysis.
Of 2,721,014 women in the cohort, 27,087 underwent surgical or laparoscopic cholecystectomy during follow-up. There was a small but statistically significant increase in gallbladder disease risk with 3 of the newer oral contraceptives vs levonorgestrel, an older second-generation progestin. Adjusted RRs were 1.05 for desogestrel (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.01 - 1.09), 1.20 for drospirenone (95% CI, 1.16 - 1.26), and 1.10 for norethindrone (95% CI, 1.06 - 1.14). However, ethynodiol diacetate, norgestrel, and norgestimate were not associated with any statistically significant increase in risk vs levonorgestrel.
"In a large cohort of women using oral contraceptives, we found a small, statistically significant increase in the risk of gallbladder disease associated with desogestrel, drospirenone and norethindrone compared with levonorgestrel," the study authors write. "However, the small effect sizes compounded with the possibility of residual biases in this observational study make it unlikely that these differences are clinically significant."
Limitations of this study include lack of validation of the International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9), codes for gallbladder disease in most administrative databases, inability to control for body mass index and ethnicity, possible residual confounding with other known and unknown variables, and reporting bias as a possible reason for the apparent increase in gallbladder disease in people taking drospirenone.
"The surge in the number of reported cases of gallbladder disease facilitated through the media may have contributed in making drospirenone appear to be associated with a higher risk of gallbladder disease compared with older contraceptives," the study authors conclude.
The Fonds de la recherche en santé du Québec (FRSQ), the Ministère de la Santé et des Services sociaux, and the McGill University Health Center supported this study. Coauthor James Brophy, MD, PhD, is the recipient of a career award from the FRSQ. The remaining study authors have disclosed no relevant financial relationships.
CMAJ. Published online April 18, 2011. Full text
Given that the poster in question is 44 and chances are very good she is on BCP, I'd give this one more crediance than low carb.
_____________________________________________________________________
Dieting & Gallstones
Experts believe weight-loss dieting may cause a shift in the balance of bile salts and cholesterol in the gallbladder. The cholesterol level is increased and the amount of bile salts is decreased. Following a diet too low in fat or going for long periods without eating (skipping breakfast, for example), a common practice among dieters, may also decrease gallbladder contractions. If the gallbladder does not contract often enough to empty out the bile, gallstones may form.
_____________________________________________________________________
Fats
Fat is essential for the proper functioning of the body. Fats provide essential fatty acids, which are not made by the body and must be obtained from food. The essential fatty acids are linoleic and linolenic acid. They are important for controlling inflammation, blood clotting, and brain development.
_____________________________________________________________________
Of the following list, I had FOUR of the issues listed. Over 40, female, diabetes, and rapid weight loss. Apparently I also have a sluggish gallbladder. (That makes 5 out of a possible 11 causes).
Add use of birth control for almost 2 decades (see earlier article).
Causes of gallstones:
Gallstones are more common in women, Native Americans and other ethnic groups, and people over age 40. Gallstones may also run in families.
The following also make you more likely to develop gallstones:
Failure of the gallbladder to empty bile properly (this is more likely to happen during pregnancy)
Medical conditions that cause the liver to make too much bilirubin, such as chronic hemolytic anemia, including sickle cell anemia
Liver cirrhosis and biliary tract infections (pigmented stones)
Diabetes
Bone marrow or solid organ transplant
Rapid weight loss, particularly eating a very low-calorie diet.
Receiving nutrition through a vein for a long period of time (intravenous feedings)
My take on this is that while fat, the WRONG kind can cause gallbladder issues, a low carb/high fat if you eat the RIGHT kinds of fats, is not an issue.
So as long as we eat the right kind of fat, high fat isn't a problem.
Liz
Duodenal Switch (Lap) 01-24-11 | Surgeon: Stephen Boyce | High weight: 250 in 2002 | Surgery weight: 203 | Lowest weight: 121 | Current weight: 135 | Goal weight: 135
I lost my gallbladder after doing the Optifast program - low fat, low calorie but average carbs.
I was told it was a possibility before I did the diet - I was in my mid-30's too.
I was told it was a possibility before I did the diet - I was in my mid-30's too.
HW-218/SW-208/CW-126/ Lowest Weight-121/Goal-125 - hit 8/23/09/Height-5'3"
Regain 30 lbs from 2012 to 2016 - got back on track and lost it. Took 8 months.
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I had my GB out 10 yrs ago. I blamed mine on 30 yrs of crappy eating + yoyo dieting + hereditary. My daughter had her GB out at age 13. Yes, 13!!! She never dieted in her life. So again, I think there's a hereditary issue. By the way, Ive had 5 surgeries in my life...... my GB removal was by far the worst!!!! Was supposed to be an outpatient surgery, I ended up staying in the hosp for 5 days with tubes. It was terrible! Cindy
Surgery March 2, 2010 - 5' 9" - HW 278 / SW 260 / CW 139 / GW 150
I wonder if that gallstone could have ben hanging around a while??? I didnt read the entire post My mom had her gallbladder removed and was in the hospital for a month. She had a huge amount of stones that they ended up finding in exploratory surgery tucked behind ribs, etc. The surgeon coukdnt believe how many there were. This was 15 or 20 years ago -- she was sliced and diced w the scars to prove it.
No pain at all after they removed all of those. I need to look into this some more now!!! Gallbladder issues scare me!!!
Meg
No pain at all after they removed all of those. I need to look into this some more now!!! Gallbladder issues scare me!!!
Meg
**********************************************
HW 236 / SW 224 / CW 164/ GW 135
HW 236 / SW 224 / CW 164/ GW 135
(deactivated member)
on 6/28/11 1:40 am, edited 6/28/11 1:43 am
on 6/28/11 1:40 am, edited 6/28/11 1:43 am
See Im kind of thinking of it as a if you eat high fat all your life and then suddenly try to diet ... your gallbladder stops contracting and ur prodigious production of bile gets stopped up and forms stones basically ...
does that mean that a lowfat diet CAUSES gallbladder problems ? Hardly .. if you ate a lowfat diet all your life Ur VERY unlikely to have them I think . Just anecdotally I have NEVER EVER heard of a gallblader issue until I came to OH ....
and Ive been around intensive lowfat dieters , actors models , bodybuilders and competitive athletes pretty much every single day all my life ... NONE of these people eat anything that even vaguely resembles the normal American high fat diet ... as a matter of fact most would make ME look like a high -fat eating person honestly .
So in fact we ARE talking abut apples and oranges because some people here had their gallbladder issues come up when they first dieted .... and Im really talking about living a very lowfat LIFESTYLE forever to AVOID them hopefully FOREVER lol...
As far as taking linonenic acid supplements ( evening primrose oil and flaxseed oil ... ) Im TOTALLY in agreement with that .. it reduces cravings AND helps U lose weight ... and if it keeps the gallbladder ducts clean too all the better
does that mean that a lowfat diet CAUSES gallbladder problems ? Hardly .. if you ate a lowfat diet all your life Ur VERY unlikely to have them I think . Just anecdotally I have NEVER EVER heard of a gallblader issue until I came to OH ....
and Ive been around intensive lowfat dieters , actors models , bodybuilders and competitive athletes pretty much every single day all my life ... NONE of these people eat anything that even vaguely resembles the normal American high fat diet ... as a matter of fact most would make ME look like a high -fat eating person honestly .
So in fact we ARE talking abut apples and oranges because some people here had their gallbladder issues come up when they first dieted .... and Im really talking about living a very lowfat LIFESTYLE forever to AVOID them hopefully FOREVER lol...
As far as taking linonenic acid supplements ( evening primrose oil and flaxseed oil ... ) Im TOTALLY in agreement with that .. it reduces cravings AND helps U lose weight ... and if it keeps the gallbladder ducts clean too all the better
I lost my gallbladder 10 years after doing Optifast and 4 months before my VSG.
I find that I have the VERY best weight loss when I am eating bacon 3 times a day,seriously,I kid you not. I will lose 3 # a week when I am eating high fat dense protein pretty exclusively,don't know why,but that is my truth. But I don't do it all the time cause I can't afford it,lol
h
I find that I have the VERY best weight loss when I am eating bacon 3 times a day,seriously,I kid you not. I will lose 3 # a week when I am eating high fat dense protein pretty exclusively,don't know why,but that is my truth. But I don't do it all the time cause I can't afford it,lol
h
Gallstone are caused by rapid weight loss, particularly rapid weight loss while consuming a low fat diet.
I know you hate the low carb lifestyle, Mini-Me, but I wish you'd stop trying to demonize it just because it's not for you.
I know you hate the low carb lifestyle, Mini-Me, but I wish you'd stop trying to demonize it just because it's not for you.
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