Tripped across some info regarding Nutrient Deficiency and Transfer Addictions

Hi Everyone.  Was bored today so I went perusing the OH boards and came across a thread on the Regrets board that I thought had some very good information.  I typically like to read all the information in the thread, but there's too much to post here and would make for some VERY long reading.  Her position is that nutrient deficiency can be a reason for transfer addictions.

Now - I would like to strike up a conversation about what is posted here.  The person seems to know what she's talking about but many of the nutrients she is taking (look at her vitamin list she takes per day) I'm unfamiliar with. 

This is the thread I was reading:

http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/any_wls_regrets/4392306/PL EASE-READ-BEFORE-YOU-HAVE-GB/

There is a blog from one of the ladies on there that had some very good information: 

http://itsnotaddictiontransfer.wordpress.com/

and another very interesting table that indicates what issues may occur with certain low vitamins:

http://bariatricfusion.com/nutritionaldeficiency.php

I find this VERY interesting and will be looking more deeply into it.

I haven't read the material, but I will, when I have the time. But, transfer addictions are called that for a reason. Most WLS patients have food addictions and when food can no longer be used, that addictive behavior is transferred to other areas, albeit, it shopping, smoking, alcohol, exercise, etc.

If people are taking their supplements, then wouldn't this take care of the nutrient deficiency for the most part????

I'll have to read the material.

Okay, I read that guy's post. Obviously, he needs treatment for his substance abuse. Addictive behavior is a real illness and it will continue after WLS, if treatment isn't initiated. At my 3 month check-in, the bariatric internist said that 3 young women in the program had recently passed away from bleeding ulcers, which started from resuming cigarette smoking. There wasn't anything that could be done. The bottom line, self-destructive and addictive behavior may continue after WLS, despite massive losses in weight. This is a REAL issue and one that I don't believe is related to nutrient deficiency. It is hard wired in our heads. The surgeons operate on our stomachs, not our heads. If people are developing transfer addictions, they need treatment for the addiction.

There is even a genetic predisposition for alcohol abuse that research has shown to be present in certain families.


As far as that table of nutrient deficiencies, that is why, we have to take our vitamins and supplements and have our labs drawn periodically. WLS changes our anatomy and ability to absorb certain nutrients.

Gail

But - do you believe that nutrient deficiency can be what drives us to indulge in something that makes us feel good, even for a little while?  She states in her article that eating sugar and other satisfying activities releases seratonin (even shopping, sex, etc) which makes us feel good.  Is it because we're deficient in a nutrient that can be supplemented to replace that empty feeling?

There was a lot of information in her posts and blogs.  I printed out her vitamin list of what she takes per day and took it to Vitamin World with me.  The lady there said its a lot of duplication and the nutrients I was interested in were more of a relaxation type of nutrient.  Kind of a natural type of Xanax.  Everyone's different and I believe nutrients react differently in different people.  The way she responds to Tyrosine, Taurine and GABA may be different in how we react to it.  And, if we're not deficient in it, how would we know?  I don't think there's a particular test to see.

The reason why I found this interesting is I'm finding myself being forgetful and fuzzy.  Good days and bad days.  I've got a new job coming up and quite honestly I can't afford to be like that.  I've decided to take the Omega 3's, and I know several other people do.  There are EPAs and DHA's in the Omega 3's that supplement brain and joint function.  I've convinced the family we ALL need to be taking the Fish Oil or Omega 3's.  Any other supplementation will happen after I see what that does for me.  I was told NOT to expect to notice any differences when taking it.   We'll see.

I'm going to have to read her blog, when I have some time. Nutrient deficiency can cause some problems with depression and other illnesses. Those are listed in the table. Supplementation with fish oil is recommended by medical professionals, not only for cardiac health, but also there is some research suggesting that it may be helpful in mood stabilization and brain function. So, fish oil is a great supplementation, especially, if you don't eat salmon, tuna, mackerel, and other fish high in the Omega 3's.

I don't believe nutritional deficiency drives people to indulge in addictive behavior. There are pleasure centers in the brain that respond to pleasurable stimuli, and the more that these receptors are stimulated, the more they want to be filled, which drives the addictive behavior. Think about nicotine, pain pills, opium, cocaine, etc. Some people thrive on adrenalin. Is that caused by a nutritional deficiency? I don't think so.

The overuse of substances, such as alcohol, can cause nutritional deficiences, especially thiamine and other B vitamins and these missing nutrients need to be replaced during treatment.

Serotonin is a "feel good" neurotransmitter in the brain and many of the antidepressants operate to increase the level of serotonin, which may help people to feel better. Dopamine is another one, as well epinephrine and norepinephrine. Brain chemistry is very, very complicated and there is still alot of research going on. 

The aminio acids that you mentioned are precursors for many of the hormones and neurotransmitters that the body utilizes, so one could make a case that if one's diet didn't provide enough of these amino acids, then there could be nutritional deficiencies. Supplementation, in most instances, probably won't hurt, and might even help, but in severe depression and other major illnesses, it may not be enough.

Pre-op, when I started taking all the vitamins that were recommended, I know that I started feeling better, but my diet also started improving, because I wasn't eating alot of junk. Vitamins definitely have a major role, but I'm not sure that deficiencies lead to addictive behavior. I just haven't seen it. I've seen nutritional deficiencies have many of the effects listed in the table.

If you are feeling forgetful and dizzy, how is your diet? Are you getting enough calories, protein, vitamins? How is your sleep? Level of stress? Are you exercising? All of these are factors that affect our brain function. Research has shown that exercise really helps to improve brain function. Supplementing with fish oil can certainly help, but there may also be other factors that are having effects upon you.

Gail

 "But - do you believe that nutrient deficiency can be what drives us to indulge in something that makes us feel good, even for a little while? "

I think blaming transfer addictions on nutritional deficiencies is psuedo-science. I was not impressed with what I read on that thread from that woman.

Jody:  I found myself thinking a little fuzzy in the past.  I think I wasn't getting my VIt B 12 in consistently.  Since I've been better at getting that in, my fuzzy thinking went away.

Yes

The most obvious is Pica. The craving for ice or dirt or detergent, grainy things. What that victim needs is IRON, but none of those things deliver iron.

Less obvious, protein. They tend to crave crackers and - get this - Hall's cough drops! Neither delivers protein.

Thanks Jody! Lots of info.

With the brain, its all about chemistry, so I think she could be on to something.

Will be looking into some extras for my supplementation.