Carbs

OK I don't GET The carbs thing . Now i kind of feel like I SHOULD after 20 months post RNY .

I kind of figured it wasn't that important in the beginning .... or that my pouch would become more sensitive to them and Id understand the whole carbs -are - the -devil kinda hysterical sounding sort of thing ...

but I still don't

is it carbs with FAT ?!! ( or really FAT flavored with a little sugar that we're talking about - like a chocolate covered pretzel ?) Because in THAT Case it makes sense to me .

If I eat truffles..i get fat too .

Only I dont call them carbs .. I call them chocolates .

Now what I call carbs are say ... brown rice . And rice is what the Asiatic world ( who is almost UNIFORMLY non- overweight WHATSOEVER ) subsists on almost exclusively - that and barely cooked vegetables .. which happen also to be technically CARBS .

I personally DONT have ANY issue whatsoever with weight gain eating these things ..but I don't try to eat an Atkins type diet including copious amounts of fat and huge amounts of protein . In other words Im not a bacon-eater ( or a fatty cheese , butter or nut eater )

So please correct me , because in my simplistic mind this is kind of how Ive come to define this - either you choose fats or healthy carbs .

U can have am " out " with a pouch but only one .

You can either eat bacon and full fat cheese and nuts regularly ..or brown rice , veggies and fatfree baked goods ...with fat free dairy and very lean proteins .

Sugar I think is a devil for all of us... at least my pouch tells me so every time I try to re-make its acquaintaince ... except in SUPER limited quantities .

What do U guys think ?

I also think Ur setpoint might end up somewhat higher with the bacon-nut-cheese Atkins friendly menu ....

especially long term- Id LOVE to see some statistics on this one . Bone loss comparing the two groups ... height loss ... gallstones ... frequency of health issues .

If someone could simply answer your question, they would be rich. Lol. To answer your question generally, a carb is not a carb. There are two broad categories: slow and fast digesting carbs. Fast carbs spike insulin which is related to fat retention. Slow carbs are higher in fiber and healthier. Sugar, both processed and natural, falls into the first category. Brown rice and beans fall into the second.
Low carb diets vary. Atkins is highly carb restrictive and relies on your body being in ketosis where carbs are not the source of energy. In theory, you can eat high fat and lose weight. Some argue that the limited options and higher saiety from fat lead people to eat less calories, thereby losing weight. I believe there is truth to Atkins, but I think different things work for different people.

So, are people who live on brown rice and veggies thin? Often times. But these people usually don't eat anything processed, especially sugar. Morbidly obese people generally have an insulin sensitivity and carbs lead to weight gain. Not normal folk. Plus, I've found carbs absolutely 100% lead to food addiction, binging, bad behaviors for me. I also think that wheat products and highly processed foods are hard to digest and can limit weight loss.

I wish I could stick to my plan, but for me I have to stick to protein, moderate fat, no wheat, no sugar (including high glycemic fruits, honey, etc), and when necessary, slow carbs. Necessary? Well, thank God for my surgery. I'm an aerobics instructor. I really really wish I could highly restrict my carbs, but when I do, my muscles fatigue horribly. Ideally my body would adjust and burn fat, but without a few weeks not teaching, I can't wait for that to happen. My plan (I'm on week 2), is high protein (100-110g), and low carb on non teaching days. For me, that's aiming for 30-40g. On teaching days, I'm going to have carbs about 2 hours before my classes start, in the form of beans or oatmeal. I may have brown rice occasionally, but it could be a trigger for me. My totals would be about 80g of carbs on these days (negated by 2-3 hours of cardio, lol).
We'll see, but I think the only answer is finding what works for you. The only error would be picking parts of different plans: ie high fat, high carbs.

THIS is probably the MOST accurate description of carbs and what carbs do!  Thanks Kat!!!

Thanks, lol. Now if I can walk the walk...TBD!

 OK so I think you need to think South Beach not Atkins. ....In other words lean non fatty meat....too much fat being bad for your heart...Atkins died of a heart attack...LOL....also nuts...but not too many and only almonds...the lowest in fat...fruit...and veggies....now carbs ARE sugar...they are anything that breaks down into sugar in your system...as opposed to protein which does not...so fruit is a carb...vegetables are carbs and sugar is carbs....BUT....there are GOOD carbs and BAD carbs...
all carbs break down into sugar and give your body a boost of energy...protein builds muscle and maintains it..period...now when you eat a carb it breaks down in your body and sustains you with energy...if you eat NO carbs like we have been doing our bodies will naturally go to our reserves of carbs which are in our fat cells and use those..this is why we lose weight....So if you eat only protein and low carbs like we have our bodies go oh hell....need energy and go looking for stored energy...
anytime you eat carbs your body will happily use those and not go looking for more...hence you don't lose weight and you maintain....so back to carbs....carbs break down in your body fast or slow...
the slower they break down the better....so you want the sugar distributed over time not in an instant boost ( like if you eat chocolate or sugar) which will give you a big boost but them a crash....and then you need more and more....you want your sugar energy to be dispersed slowly and over time ...so you eat slow burning carbs like vegetables...or some nuts...dairy carbs...NOW when you eat slow burning carbs your body is happy and not looking for more carbs (ie...fat) so you don't lose but you don't gain...if you eat too many carbs your body will store them as fat...
The reason we keep our carbs really low when we are losing is because it tricks our bodies into thinking that they are not starving...as soon as our carbs get tooo low our bodies think we are starving and they STOP  looking for fat and we stall....so you have to keep a balance of low enough carbs when you are losing but not too low...in other words vegetables an some dairy but  under 40 grams a day..
SOOOOO.
Brown RIce...White rice...same thing...FAST burning carb
Potatoes...white...fast burning carb.
FLOUR...fast burning carb.
WHOLE GRAIN flour...a bit slower but still a carb...
OATMEAL...carb...fast burning..
ANYTHING with refined sugar...fast burning..
the fruits can also be too many carbs if you eat too many of them 
THis is extreme but this is the deal if you are losing..
NOW you are maintaining...
SOOOO
THE FAT is just more calories...think of it that way...FAT Is not a carb or protein it's just more calories...the fat in nuts is ok for you ...but keep it low
Your body uses FAT to store SUGAR so if you eat fats with sugar you are eating A STORAGE TANK FOR YOUR SUGAR...LOL....so you don't burn...you store..
French Fries are the WORST right...but it's because they are fast burning sugar with a nice storage tank of FAT to put it in....
BOOZE>...pure sugar...so limit it...red wine is good actually but limited...
So that's the deal...
fruit and veggies are good....beans are good...tofu is good ....and your diet is good...
but if you are eating fruit...eat the low in sugar fruit  because fruit is sugar....and if you eat lots of it 
you may as well be eating pure sugar...honnestly...eat slow burning fruit and light in sugar...
Pears...apples...etc...avoid bananas...or any tropical fruit except in small quantities...
And Eat Plenty of protein...really...other wise I think your body is starving and weak and then you reach for a fast fix...sugar sugar sugar....
So the most important thing for you now especially after this surgery is to eat protein and lots of it...WE all have to do this for the rest of our lives...and watch how many carbs you eat and what kind...I HOPE this has been helpful to you....if you eat a chocolate covered pretzel you are eating sugar  with a bit fat storage tank to keep it in...if you eat the pretzel alone you are eating a fast burning carb but it's not as bad....
Let me know if this makes sense...
You can also go out and buy the SOUTH  BEACH DIET book and follow their maintenance plan which is VERY healthy and sort of the new diet for our decade...
YOU will find that it is very similar to what you eat but it will give you guidelines..
NOW>>>>we all eat snack and stuff we are not supposed to and we bounce around...but if you want to keep your blood sugar regulated...in other words no spikes with fast burning sugar then eat the right kind of carbs and eat often....keep the protein comin'...Think of eating protein before you eat any carb....and you will be thinking of protein...even if it's a bad thing to eat...eat some protein with it....milk with your cookies...
NOw the cheating thing....since you are on maintenance you can eat some more calories and still not gain....if you overdo the carbs your body will store...so you have to do a dance...
But sugar is addictive as you know and if you eat too many carbs too much your body will start craving them again because your insulin levels will be off kilter ....you jack up your energy and then crash and then jack it up again and then crash and eventually your body will be all screwed up and you will feel out of control....a nice journey of slow burning carbs..protein...will over time regulate things gain....
This from the woman who had ice cream and cookies last night...LOL..
HOwever this is also my two cents and the rules I try to live by....
Think of your sugar and storage tank image and have a happy new year 
SEAVIEW

Hi Ava  Wow...an interesting post...

My definition of a carb is what the nutrition community thinks of as carbs. Fruits...veggies...grains...french fries...etc. I think the "old school" of Atkins was more of extreme to get people to buy in to the whole no carb stuff by allowing peeps to consume higher fat...flavors...etc. 

I think more current low carb lifestyles bring a balance to both. Fat and carbs. 

For ME...I consume bacon but don't do butter or oils or mayo. I eat cheese but low fat or fat free. Yogurts but only greek plain. I do not eat grains, potatoes, or any complex carbs in large amounts...maybe just a 1 tablespoon if that at all. I consume fruits and veggies. I eat nuts, natural nut butter. I can't even bring myself to buy regular ketchup because that is sugar ladened so I buy that organic too...so for me...it's a balance. 

Simple carbs = forget it! Period...I don't do them. My definition of simple carbs is anything processed with white flour, white sugar, etc. If I have chocolate, and that's very rare...I will have the 70% - 90% cocoa. Even the lovely biscottis I have are whole grain flour and organic. 

So I do both. I choose healthier fats and healthier carbs. When I am out of balance ~ and consume more grains and other types of carbs like potatoes (albeit healthier complex carbs) than I stated above...I know my body feels poofy and icky. 

This is what works for me and my pouch. 

Does this help or did I babble because you know I do that...lol 

 Ava...I don't want to sound preachy in my post...This is just what I do and ascribe to...
So I hope you take it as just another source of information...you need to find what works for you...however the guidelines about what is a carb or not don't change...or how your body works..it is a simple machine...what you put in it will dictate what it does...and we can trick it...SEAVIEW

Ava,

I really simplify things and avoid as much as possible, all white carbs including: Flour, sugar, white bread, and white rice, but especially flour and sugar.  While nothing is completely off limits I find that the cleaner that I eat, as in, as little processing as possible, the healthier I feel.  I don't crave sugar (and have a vsg so I could eat it without a reaction) so if I want the odd treat, I use real sugar.  I also use regular fat as most reduced fat comes with extra processing and fake fillers that are usually carbs.  Full fat is much more satiating and tasty as well as keeps me regular.

Good luck on your continual journey and congratulations on your marriage!

Big thanks to all of you for throwing in your .02 cents.  It's always great to read different points of view and different experiences.  This is particularly helpful to me this morning after two weeks of vacation and staring down my last 17 pounds to shed.  I haven't let go of weight in awhile and it's clear that I need to change my strategy to get there.  So thanks again!  I love this board and all of the cumulative experiences and knowledge that are here.

 Thank You  posters  so much for Your thoughtful experienced replies !      

Wow  - food  for thought  truly  !  

yeah  .... this  really  makes SENSE  and im going  to have t o modify my menus  accordingly and EXPERIMENT  and see  if the last twenty  lbs come off  .. (  wouldn't be a HOOT  if they  DID ?!!  )

Thank  you for YOur GREAT  advice !!!  

Ill keep U posted  how the changes go ....