Messageboards & Low Self Esteem

First I wanted to thank everyone so far that has emailed me or posted about the possible "tough love" board on the main message board. The comments from each of you are very helpful. I wanted to just touch on some things for myself. I've been obese all my life, since around age 5 I was told that I was getting "over weight". My parents where both obese. I picked up a lot of their eating habits and some they where better on like eating veggies, I never really did. I was one of those people that when someone picked on me I would ignore them. My mom always told me that was the best approach. All throughout my schooling, I have picked on daily. Some of the worse names you can imagine. I would come home daily upset and would quickly run to food for my support, even hiding food. As the years passed I quickly started to really get angry... I was angry because for all these years I had allowed these bullies to call me names. I was in high school, and this one kid who I might add was also "fat" came up to me and kept on and on. I had finally had enough, so he got a reaction. I turned around and grabbed him by the shirt collar. I said how dare you call me such names, have you looked at yourself lately. Everyone in the hall mouths dropped a mile. The nice quiet Amy they all knew had now suddenly had it. It was that point on that people treated me different and I didn't hear as many direct comments to me. I still had the worse time of my life because of my schooling and the day I graduated, I wasn't like most people all unhappy and sad to see my friends go, I didn't have many. I was actually deep within my soul relieved to never have to go back to that hell again. I would no longer have to wake up and pretend to be sick because inside my stomach was in knots from stress in worry. It was honestly because of my low self esteem and worry that I didn't do as well as I could of in school because I couldn't concentrate. I've been out of school now for over 10 years, but I will say that those who hurt me made a major impact on my life, they damaged how I thought about myself, even through I ignored them that didn't lessen the words they had said to me or the hurt I dealt with daily. I've been very lucky to have found a husband who cared for me, he saw the damage that these people did to me and worked with me to feel good about myself again. Even after all this time the pain, and hurt live with me. It's not something you can erase out of your memory. I even now have dreams about my schooling years. It's something I struggle with everyday and made me not want to leave my house. I'm a very homely person because of this too. Probably something that I'll never change, I like having my little safe haven. When I'm home I feel safe from the world. It's not a good feeling to want to not live in the world. I'm thankful daily that although it's through cyber space that I have a place I feel safe at. I've said all this to say this, when you reply to someone on the boards remember, you don't know their personal back ground, you don't know where they came from. Maybe they had a parent who verbally abused them and your response really set them off somehow, maybe you didn't intend for it to come out the way you worded it, who knows. But like myself, there are things in life that come back to me with a simple word and my defense goes up. We can all be tough and still be tactful about it, it's not about enabling someone, it's understanding that we each have different wants and needs and we don't know what lies on the other side of this monitor. It might be someone on the breaking point with a bottle of pills in hand. So when you answer try to be understanding with your response. I'm not saying let's all be sweet and kind, YES be yourself, but also bear what I've said in mind, we don't know how that person is emotionally. I've been told I'm too sweet or nice, I'm sorry for those who might think this, that is me. I was abused too much growing up by others and I wouldn't expect coming to any support group online or off and get treated badly. I've got tough skin and I've seen those words thrown around here, about get some "tough skin", but some people are too fagile and they don't get that tough skin. Think before you reply to someone please. Hope everyone is having a Happy Easter. Amy

Amy--I am so sorry that you suffered such abuse growing up. Mean people suck--I love that bumper sticker--it really does say it all. Ya know I ALWAYS think before I post something. I try never to hurt someone's feelings as I am a sensative type myself. Sometimes what we are trying to say in our posts do not always come out properly. Sometimes, I think often because of our history, we take offense to things which are not meant to be offensive at all. I know I have been on both sides of that coin. For example last year, on my two year anniversary, I posted a story about going out to dinner and eating stuff, apparently a little too quickly, and ending up puking in the parking lot. I posted it just to say--hey--I may look normal, but I'll never really be normal. I got a response from some sweet newbie who proceeded to tell me about choices and how I should never be having bad stuff...blah, blah, blah. Now, I know she meant well--but... it bothered me. I was put off at being lectured to and felt like she didn't really get the point of my post. Well anyhow--I could have been really insulted and posted a snippy reply back to her. I gave it some time and thought about it--realized she had only been meaning to help and just let it slide. When someone posts that they are sneaking candy and other bad stuff a few weeks post-op--I really do want to smack them upside the head and ask them what they are thinking and did they really have the surgery to make choices like that. I don't believe I have ever made such a post--such self discipline is amazing. Instead I ask them to think about their choices. I explain what my experience has been. I mention some of the same stuff you mentioned in that post you made a little while ago. Yes--you are restricted as to how much bad stuff you can eat early out--but if you don't learn new habits early on--it is darn near impossible long term. IMHO it just doesn't do people any good to say--well that is ok--at least you just had one... But certainly that doesn't mean it is appropriate to be rude or attacking. I just think people often take it that way--if you don't agree with them. Hope your Easter has been great! Mine has been perfect.

Lynda, You are right about the way it's taken. Like I told Tek on the other post it's about perception. We get emails daily from someone who's been hurt by a post and you go read it and it's hard to understand, how was this hurtful. What we explain to the member is that person was trying to be helpful and maybe you read it wrong. That's the thing about messageboards and internet. You've met me, we didn't get to talk long, but I'm just a quiet reserved person, but even some of the things I type get taken the wrong way... I think that when people post about eating candy or if they can have it, it's hard. I know it was for me, I didn't wake up from surgery not wanting these things. I still think about food, the surgery didn't cure that. Sometimes it's hard to hear the truth and the defense comes out. Glad you've had a great Easter Amy

Amy--I have stopped getting email notifications of responses. Can you fix that for me. It is weird how it stops sometimes.

Sorry Amy, but the readers' baggage is not my problem, unless of course, we are discussing the readers baggage. I'm not going to recount the horrors and tragedies of my life that affect my outlook and sensitivities because, frankly, I don't want anyone here commenting on them. I "KNOW" I will hear things I don't want to, things that will hurt, things that will just feel icky. So I don't post them. I'm too fragile. I also don't think its necessary to recount these things to prove that "I care". HONEST communication is impossible if the criteria is not using some unknown word or phrase that may put someone over the edge, or touches some tramatic experience someone has had. In YOUR post, the one I am RIGHT NOW replying to, were things that hurt or offended me. Perhaps you should not have made it? Perhaps you should have thought first? I am offended EVERY DAY. There are daily impositions that I would be happier without having to endure. In a perfect world, everyone would think of me and my sensitivities before the wrote or spoke, but until we reach such a world, I will have to endure. The best that could be expected, and sometimes that is overly optimistic, is that what we write would not offend or harm that fictitious "reasonable person". A "reasonable person" does not have baggage, so random words will not cause a "reasonable person" to become offended or be sent over the edge. By definition, a "reasonable person" is not fragile. I don't know that a "Tough Skin" is the solution, certainly, I don't have one. Call me a name, my feelings get hurt. Tell me I'm doing something wrong, or tell someone doing what I am doing that they are doing something wrong, and I will get upset. Basically, contrary to all indications otherwise, I have feelings. There are certain topics I cannot read without have my guts ripped out. It hurts to read them. But they NEED to be there. Worse, people may say the EXACT WRONG thing about it. But it needs to be there. My sensitivities are MY problem, no one elses. Message boards are not private. When someone posts a message, yes they are posting for themselves, but they are also posting for everyone else with similar question or idea. The responses are to that individual, and also to everyone else that reads. A response may not be what one person needs, but it may be what another does. Tek

Thanks for the reply, you are right it's not your problem their past baggage, but we can try to be considerate to the person's feelings. Whether good or bad it's going to offend someone, but some people take it too far. I just hope people will stop before they reply and just try to put yourself in that person's shoes for a moment. After all it's a sUpport group and the support starts with you Amy

I feel like there is some subtle debate going on that I am missing, but I shall push on... We should be considerate of other peoples feelings. I agree. We should not call names, cast insults, or in any other way personally attack an individual. Yet, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise (are they?). Courtesy. No debate. But, if you are saying that I should not post a position about a topic because that position may 'hurt' someone, then NO, I disagree. If you are saying that I should not post a position about a topic in certain ways because it 'hurts' someone, I also disagree. Yet, these are the reasons I've had posts removed. This is a Support Board. OK. When we are talking about Obese childhoods, abuse, parents, food, school, and all that "This is why I chose fat" discussions, baggage IS the topic, so due consideration needs to be given. But when we're talking about stealing food because you couldn't get a discount, or Tums, or NSAIDS, or Exercise, or Pizza at 2 weeks, or whatever, baggage doesn't matter, and consideration (for baggage we don't know about) is unnecessary. Again, using the title of this thread... The posters "Low Self Esteem" is not a consideration unless it is the topic. The original example was "a person on the edge with a bottle of pills" and a misplaced word could put them over the edge... Well, those words could be "Happy Easter" because they lost a loved one on Easter. Moral: WE CAN'T CONSIDER WHAT WE DON'T KNOW. Tek

Tek, No subtle debate here Easter did always send me over the edge, all that candy Some people do get offended by offering up "Happy Easter". We could debate that next if you want to. I'll just consider what I've been through and continue with compassion (the above is simply an example), to each their own right. Really it can go either way the poster might be upset with something someone who wasn't upset posted and then post to that poster that they are upset, and then they both are ticked off. Makes a nice post huh? Make sense... Amy

Amy, I've been reading the "Tough Love" replies And the one's to this one on the mainboard. And the "Think before you reply..." Seems obvious to me, but I do vacillate between Choosing my words carefully, and knee jerk reacting. And I think that sometimes when people reply "With Verve" It is often "called for" by what they are replying to. For example, if someone is asking about others' experience with Having something to drink at 1 month Post-Op, I would relate that I didn't try That Soon, Because of- "blah, blah, blah ...and blah, blah, blah" But, when I Did try later, MY FIRST Encounter Experience with alcohol was- "Blah, blah, blah..." Usually followed by- Hope this helps! I try to keep it Non-Judgmental or condemning of them For merely asking a question. That happened just the other day in fact. In that instance, I Thought before I typed. On the other hand, If it's not a Post I'm replying to But rather someone's reply to me that is just snippy and caustic Judgement of me, that has nothing to do with the thread topic, And instead is just a "pot-shot" out of the blue at some notion That they have built up in their mind about who they presume Me to be.... Then, I will Also "Think, before I type," But typically the thought isn't - "What might I say to help this person with an answer..." Instead it is liable to be "What an @ss you are being! Quit it!!! How Rude!!!" And in that case, I do think that is the most appropriate "Thought Through Response." To let someone spew out un-called for "Cuts" at people, Without letting them know That their insults are baseless, not-to-be-tollerated, And very un-welcomed, Leaves them with the impression that it is ok To wander thru this board Like a vicious little animal taking nips at anyone who Dares to accidentally mention a "code word" That causes them to attack. I'm a terrible person at responding to those replies. Rather than just avoid the "creature," I'm most likely to go WAY Overboard and rap them on the nose with the evening paper yelling- "No! No! No! Outside!!!" A huge flaw in my demeanor, I admit, But perhaps that's some of my baggage. I have a knee jerk intolerance of intolerant Jerks! Sometimes I wish I had a Hot key on my keyboard That would allow a single stroke to type- "Stop Being Offended!! By Passers By!!! It's Not All About You!!" I should take a Clue from Lynda! It makes me SO Dual Persona sometimes. One person can , in the same post, Find me to be Kind and Helpful or Humorous at least And someone else in the post Find me to be the Biggest @ZZ they've ever seen And both are right. "I Care." Both Ways. "I Care" about people's well being generally, And "I Care" that they have insulted me. Unfortunately, sometimes I'll yell this at a true psycho. They in turn, Will go outside of the board and send me hate e-mails Where they can bring up touchy Deaths in my immediate family, Use the "F-word" liberally, And generally rail at someone out in cyber-space (ME) who gets to stand in as surrogate For all of those folks in the past That turned them into the bitter creature they are today. (One might rightly surmise.) Recently there was a poster out on the mainboard That told a woman,In her early 60's Who was waiting for surgery, That her picture made her look old and fat. Same lady who told "S"Val that her picture looked "scary." Yes, I was the rudest vicious person toward that poster That I'm sure she had ever met. She had been "offended" by their Photos!!!? WTF? "I Thought" before I posted to her thread. "I Thought" she needed to get over herself in a Really Big Way! Yep, my only "actual bad times" at OH Have happened off the board in e-mails From "Glenn Close-ish Rabbit Boilers, Who had that 'Play Misty for Me' Vibe." Using the death of a family member And my subsequent thoughts on "chemo patients" As a little "Dig!" right along with a rebuke of my "haiku." Yeah, "Nice" people. Missed some posts and have all sorts of preconceived notions About- The huge crowd of strangers out here. The little skirmishes of folks Being a little overzealous about Restaurant Cards Or Alcohol, smoking and such, Are well within the "Norm" of human interaction. I would see no need for a "Tough Love Board." I could use the reminder now and then- "There are Crazy People out here Reading your Posts! BEWARE!!" It's a fact, it should be obvious, But I (have in the past) often forgotten it As I hit the "Enter" to send a reply. I used to Post a Daily on the Main Board, Dedicated to passing on "well wishes" To people awaiting their approaching "big days." Innocuous enough I thought. I Did so for right at 2 years. At the front of the Daily Post was a message that said- "This isn't a list of everyone with upcoming surgeries, Just those who have requested to share their Count Down ...." For right at 2 years, I have been Cursed every way imaginable For "snubbing people," "Overlooking those not in the clique/click," Not answering e-mails within a 2 hour time frame, etc..... Eventually I let it go, As it apparently caused more strife than the goodwill And camaraderie It was intended to add.... I find that those who are more visible on the OH Boards, Draw more fire, And I'm ducking Amy, I'm sure you know That there are folks who take potshots at you Because you are so visible, (even in blogs) Same is true of Dame T, Even the resident Ogre Tek. (I only rate 'Profile rantings,' usually.) People develop notions based on a post they have seen, Or resentment that Others do in fact Like or Respond To those threads generated by some. I, like Tek am a bit too fragile to stay as present on the main board, And have nearly retreated exclusively to the Men's Board. Not because they offer a "like-minded bunch." We've got Teenagers to Great-Grand-Pa's, Southern Evangelicals who are buddies To Pagan Drag Queens, Red-necks and Cyber Punks, Guys who are 5 years out at Goal And some who are there just to ask why WLS? .... But, so far,....*hesitates.... No one into seriously attacking Strangers. I find that very comforting. Oh sure, make fun of each other And play at extreme immature games, But all in all, people who don't make Wild assumptions about one another And so far, fairly "Stalker/Psycho" Free. Been doing weekly posts there, And not one hate e-mail yet from someone who felt "slighted." No need to yell out- "Stop Being Offended!!" (I do watch daily there for a "new guy" who signs off with "MUAH!") Yes, a total mess of a ramble.... Been adding to it bit by bit while doing other work On my main screen. Just kept "hitting return!" So sorry If that Offends Those Who like normal posting structure! So - Carrying Baggage? Yes there are people out here with A lot of it. Perhaps no "Tough Love Board." But rather a "Bomb Detection/Metal detector" like at the airport? Or even some "Profiling?" "Sanity Screening Agents?" Best Wishes- Dx