When am I a Graduate?

My surgery was 5/24/05. I am below my doc's goal, but at mine. I've lost 101 pounds in nine months. I have gone from size 28 to size 10 - for the first time in my 56 years! Is a graduate someone who is "X" length of time out from surgery or someone who is at goal? Mom Bear

Mom Bear, no offense, but, your a graduate when your at a mimimum of a yr out and you no longer feel the surgery...I mean that by saying, when it becomes HARD and you continue to work for it. I feel as though the 1st yr, I was just a participant, an active one, but, not guite there yet! Does that make sense?

I personally don't think anyone should be banned from any forum. While one may voluntarily respect certain wishes of a particular subject, I'm for FREEDOM of expression. Then again, what do I know? I do understand segregation. It has always been present and will continue to be regardless of what we call it. I suppose this is why alcoholics go to AA, narcotic addicts go to NA, mothers have Mother's Day Out, etc. That said, I have no objection to anyone being here provided they are in compliance with Terms of Service. I just read the TOS and I don't see anything in the terms that permits anyone posting to any particular board. Best, Vanessa

Thank you. Always someone with a need for exclusivity.

you are missing the point of the "grad' board altogether. What could someone who is a new post-op or just a few months out possibly know about the struggles some of us "older' post ops have and what advice could they give us that would help when they haven't been there yet. How could they support me when they don't know what it's like to be three years out and things don't work like they do when you are a new post op and when they don't know yet what lies ahead. it's a little different when older post ops post on here to support people because we have already walked in their shoes. I am rambling now so I'll stop.

Delores, I'm glad you posed this side of the equation, especially the part of "What could someone who is a new post-op or just a few months out possibly know....and what advice could they give us......". I don't have a concrete, definitive answer as each person is an individual and I cannot crawl into anyone else's head. I do have a philosophy that I try to live by and I welcome the opportunity to express it now. My husband works in a very dangerous job. He has a mantra that "I" believe can pertain to everyone, everywhere, "Complacency kills." (I also happen to love alliterations so this is a double good one for me.) Complacency kills. Complacency: self-satisfaction accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies Complacent: 1: calm or secure satisfaction with oneself or one's lot : Self-satisfaction 2 obsolete: complaisance 3 : UNCONCERN Having said that, I'll move on to the 2nd half of the philosophy regarding this particular situation. I LOVE to recant this story so allow me to share, as the original idea is not my own, and the first recorded history that I am aware of was written by Plato in, "The Apology" as he recorded at the trial of Socrates. Apology in Greek means "defense" so you may translate, "The Apology" as "The Defense" and this is exactly what it was -- the defense of Socrates at his trial for impiety (not respecting the gods and authority) and corruption of the youth. Socrates had the right to an attorney or representative at his Arthenian trial but opted to represent/defend himself. The speech he made in his defense is what is recorded by Plato. This truly an excellent read for anyone at anytime and is filled with thought provoking material but I will use only a portion of it for this discussion. And, I'll try to make it quite simple. As Socrates was teaching and/or contemplating life in the major squares of the city and crowds grew, he began to develop a reputation of a man who had great knowledge. A friend of his had visited the Oracle at Delphi and asked "Who is the wisest man of all?" The friend came rushing back to tell Socrates that the oracle told him that Socrates was the wisest of all men! To this, Socrates was stunned and immediately argued that this was NOT the case at all! Determined to prove the prophecy wrong, he set out to "interview" all of the wisest men in government/authority. Successful in this endeavor, he concluded and admitted during his defense that the Oracle at Delphi was RIGHT! Socrates IS the wisest man of all! How did he come to this conclusion? Socrates found great egos among those in government and in authority. He found them to believe that they were righteous and just. They did not see any errors in their ways and were not interested in learning anything new. After all, they knew it all already!! Socrates concluded and stated in his defense that he IS the wisest of all because all of the men with whom he conversed and interviewed, were not willing to learn from men they believe to be of inferior (which was everyone). Socrates states, "To be wise is to know that you are not wise." When we realize that we don't know it all and that ALL people have SOMETHING to share and we're willing to listen, that is when we are wisest! We may actually learn something! To close oneself off to someone for any reason, therefore, is to, at the very least, limit oneself. Have a great night! Vanessa

vanessa, you said that I asked,"I'm glad you posed this side of the equation, especially the part of "What could someone who is a new post-op or just a few months out possibly know....and what advice could they give us......". I take issue with you saying that I said, what could someone who is a new post op know/ I said. what could someone who is a new post op possibly know ABOUT OUR STRUGGLES. Please read my response again. In no way do i feel that I am the 'wise one and cannot learn from anyone". i learn everyday and when I cease to learn, I will be dead. But I stand by what I said. What could someone who is a new post op possibly know about my struggles at three years post op. I am walking a totally different walk than they are. My WLS life is very different from theirs. i remember enough about my early days to hopefully help some of them but now you tell me just how could they help me?

I don't know, Delores. I was not saying that you were the "oh wise one," I was simply sharing my philosophy and from where it was based. I stand on my word as you do your's. I have great respect for you and your opinion. For some reason, however, your answer makes me feel sad. Best to you, Vanessa

I.m really sorry my post made you sad. I really admire you also but when I am misquoted, I feel I need to straighten it out. You posted that I said, " what could a new post op possibly know' and you left it at that and that is not at all what I said. But I am not going to defend myself anymore. Everyone has eyes and they can read what I posted and what you SAID I posted. i am off to an early bed tonight. I have babysat my two toddler grands all day and am worn out so I'm signing out and off. talk to you tomorrow.

Vanessa-I think her question is When am I a graduate? She asked if it was someone at goal or a certain amount of time out. I remember when they first created this board they described it as a place for people who are a year or more out. Doesn't mean someone can't post here if they want--just means that the board was originally intended as a place to go for people further out who tend to be dealing with some different issues than those early out. BTW--I am pretty sure DX or maybe Jay has posted a pretty humorous discussion on what makes a grad a grad.