Exactly what are you trying to accomplish?

In another thread (which another poster and I hijacked to death), I posed the question "Am I trying to not be fat or am I trying to achieve and maintain a healthy weight?" I would like to pose that same question to the larger forum. So tell me, which is you? Since goals predict tactics and methods, what difference does it make which goal you are trying to achieve? How would you identify the behaviors associated with each? Do you anticipate changing from one goal to the other? What are the strengths and weakness of each? And the problem with any goal, how do you know when you have achieved it? Kick it around, because I wonder what others are thinking. Personally I still see myself trying to not be fat at the 28 month post-op mile marker. I continue to orient myself based upon my starting point (being fat, MO), and I then maneuver to avoid drifting back to that position. The question posed is 'how far away from Fat am I now? I really do not know where that other place is, only that it is not the Fat Place. The danger is not knowing how to fix upon the destination and make progress toward it. I just know I don't want to be fat anymore. I would expect to reach a tipping point, where I have spent enough time around 195 pounds to begin to see that as 'home'. I am not at that point yet. Does this make me into avoidance? Nowhere Man/PH/Jay

Thanks for posting this though provoking post. This is the type post I'd like to see more often when I come to this board. "Am I trying to not be fat or am I trying to achieve and maintain a healthy weight?" I would like to pose that same question to the larger forum. So tell me, which is you? Maintain a healthy weight Mentally for me the problem is that I never reached a normal BMI it still shows overweight. My surgeon, PCP and plastic surgeon all told me it was time to quit losing because I was all muscle. They all explained to continue to lose weight could endanger my health because the weight I lost could come from the heart muscle or some other vital organ. I really struggled with this because I didn't want to end my wls journey at 5'6" and 185 lbs ( started the journey at 410). On the other hand I'm wearing size 12 pants and size 16 tops (only because of the bust line, the midriff is very loose). I'm a sweater girl at 59...LOL I'm satisfied with how I look, just not the number on the scale. Ultimately I had to decide the purpose of the journey was to get healthy and I achieved that months ago when I went off all prescription medication and have normal blood work, blood pressure, blood sugar, etc. Thus I have finally accepted this is good enough. I'd rather have an overweight BMI and be healthy than a normal BMI and be physically ill. How would you identify the behaviors associated with each? Healthy: To maintain a healthy weight we have to be careful to eat healthy, exercise, take vitamins/calcium, drink water, etc. Not fat: I think some size 0-4 people are healthy, however some are either anorexic or close to it to maintain that size 0-4. If you have to starve to maintain a size you'd like to be it's not the right answer. Our bodies will only put up with starvation so long before they begin to deterioate. Do you anticipate changing from one goal to the other? No, I gave this a lot of thought and decided the doctors were right. I had to hear it from all 3 doctors though before I was willing to give up on my idea of an ideal weight. What are the strengths and weakness of each? And the problem with any goal, how do you know when you have achieved it? I think health should be our ultimate goal. Sometimes we have to believe the medical professionals when we can't see ourselves as the rest of the world sees us. Kick it around, because I wonder what others are thinking. I am 22 months out. I have only been on maintenance a few months. I lost a few extra pounds as I adjusted to maintenance. I see myself staying where I am today as far as weight goes. I will continue to exercise for the rest of my life to maintain the muscle because if the muscle turns to fat I will be bigger. For those that don't understand that statement a pound of fat and a pound of muscle weigh the same, however a pound of fat takes up a lot more space than a pound of muscle. I've given myself a 5 lb rule. If the scale moves to 190 I'm back on ALL protein until it drops below 185. That's my game plan. It will be interesting to read how others feel.

Pat: My BMI is around the mid 27s so I understand the indeterminacy of such a number. I lost a 150 pounds, wear size 34 pants and still am thirty eight pounds overweight. I have no idea how I could get to the chart weight of 160 and it creeps me out to think what I would look like if I did. My PCP told me not to go under 190 and, with a wink, she said, "I know what I'm talking about. I've seen you naked." I simply can't use the chart to orient myself, or to judge myself as being either as success or a failure. Thanks for taking the time to respond Nowhere Man/PH/Jay

Ugh... too... much.... thinking... my... head... is... going... to... explode! I think I'll wait for someone to say something simple that I disagree with, so I can reply with my canned kneejerk response. I'm not sure I approached it from either angle. I wasn't particularly unhealthy, aside from the fact that 300 pounds overweight is inherently unhealthy. No comorbidities, aside from perhaps Sleep Apnea, which I had since my skinny childhood, and still have. I never had, nor have, a goal weight. With 300 excess pounds, I figured when the weightloss stopped, I would asess where I was. It stopped around 210 for a little while, I liked it. I stay in the 210-220 realm, if I focus on eating, if not I drop lower. Weightloss was a means to an end. I wanted to do stuff, stuff a 512 pound man could not do. I do them now, and want to keep doing them. Most of my waking life is focussed on what I need to do to do what I want to do. The weightloss ship has sailed. My habits have not changed much from 3 months post-op until now. Certainly, I eat more now, but basically more of the same stuff. I also drink High Calorie drinks to support my running. Maybe I completely missed what you were aiming at? Maybe this: Weight loss was never a goal, but a milestone, in my larger journey. Yeah, ok, its probably a bunch of BS, but its where I am right now. Tek

Honesty alert. Sadly, like thinking, a frightfully rare commodity at OH. I did derive and continue to derive a lot of motivation from comorbs. I did not want to see those folks come at me with the jumper cables w/paddles and yell 'Clear.' After one episode, Cardiac ICU psychosis, etc., I am motivated. As things have fallen into place post-op, I have not realized miraculous cures from my comorbs as some have or claim to have, but I have most certainly arrested their progression. Nowhere Man/PH/Jay

Honestly...when I began this journey, I had the intentions of achieving and maintaining a healthy weight and ridding myself of the co-morbidities that I knew would eventually kill me. As time has gone on, and as very few of my co-morbs have improved (let alone been cured), I find myself wanting to reach an ever-elusive scale/BMI number. Yes, I have reached a 'normal' weight for my height; but for some reason, it just doesn't seem good enough anymore. If I cannot rid myself of the probable causes of my future death, I may as well be as good-looking a corpse as possible, right? Since these last 16 pounds seem to be the hardest and most stubborn to leave, I don't foresee myself changing into maintenance stage anytime soon; so, no...I don't think that I will be changing my tactics, at least not without drastic reasons. "And the problem with any goal, how do you know when you have achieved it?" The hardest question to answer of all...I have absolutely NO idea...as I've already stated, nothing really seems to be 'good enough' anymore...maybe someday I will learn (I hope)... ~~Sherry 294.5/141/169.5/147/131 (Starting Weight/Lowest Weight/Highest Post-op Pregnancy Weight/Current Weight/Goal Weight)

I'm glad you explained those #'s at the bottom. I was sitting here thinking did she regain and lose again, etc. Then I paged down and found the answer. I should have remembered the pregnancy but the brain took a senior moment. Sometimes it takes a while for the brain to catch up and accept where we are at that moment. Only you and your doctors can determine when it's enough. Best of luck!

I like all the thinking out there and, after reading all the responses so far, I am not certain that I can answer your questions with a black/white response. I sought this surgery because I was weary of carrying around the fat. I was being emotionally and physically damaged by it and I didn't know which of the sides was going to be the one that took me down. I wanted to be not fat and I wanted to be healthy. After 20 months, I am healthy and not fat at . I am not thin by any means. I weigh 160 pounds most of the time (5'5"). I wear a size 10 pant. My t-shirts are size small. The BMI calculator says I should weigh 140 to be at goal. I spent some months fretting over this, because I really feel good at 160. Then I decided that 160 must be my goal weight. I can stay there with minimal effort. My daughter thinks that I am anorexic and my mother thinks that I need to lose more. What more perfect place can anyone be?

What a great question. I went into the surgery to be healthy, but if I were honest, I wanted not to be fat any more. I am 17 months out from surgery and have been stable for several months. Am I happy where I am? Nope. Would I ever be happy at a given weight? Probably not. I am a size 12 in pants and a medium in tops and everyone tells me I am thin enough, but I can't lose the fat mentality and I live in fear of re-gaining like I have every other time I have lost lots of weight. I have read it before, but it bears repeating--they operated on my stomach, not my head!! Any idea where I can get the head operation?? Marian

Those are million dollar questions and I struggle with them way too much these days...... I had the surgery to be "healthy"... fortunately, I am very healthy now but I too am still overweight, heck... I'm obese according to the charts.... I have lost 174 lbs and still weigh in at 206..... emotionally, I feel fat, the charts say I am fat, and the mirror seems to accentuate my 15 pounds of hanging skin..... Yet I eat right and exercise for at least an hour a day..... even my PS says that I have no fat left to lipo out.... I should be satisfied... I know that intellectually.... After I gained my health, I started wanting to be a size 18, surely that would make me happy.... when they got too big, surely a 16 would fix my head, and now that the 14's are slipping off my skinny ass, well, even the 12's seem like fat clothes.... After my TT, the PS says I'll be an 8 or 10.... God I hope that will satisfied my tortured brain..... please, I am making myself crazy with the idea of being obese...... I desperately want to get off this ride inside my head. My body performs so well and I can wear clothes from any store...... why do I focus on my faults rather than my accomplishments? I am thinking that after the tt, I will put as much energy into my outlook as I have put into my exercise and shortly after that, I will be satisfied, physical and emotionally..... that's the bottom liine... I am not there yet, but my strategy will stay strong until I can resolve to be happy with what I am..... Wish me luck? Laurie - minus 174 lbs!! and still counting......