The conventional wisdom of WLS

Oooh, I just re-read the article I linked to above and realized that it is indeed way biased for the purpose of selling the company's products. Sorry 'bout that. ---- Leslie

HEY! Here's an idea--someone should start a WLS "Urban Legends" page that confirms or debunks WLS conventional wisdom (kinda like snopes.com but smaller-scale). That would be great! Imagine being able to search for some common keywords such as "30g protein" and get a summary of what is known about the topic and links to reputable pages that either confirm the information or show it to be false. People could submit things they'd like researched/answered just like snopes. You might be able to get the doctors in one or more of the big bariatric practices to contribute to it. Bet you could even support it with advertisers if it were done professionally enough. Or maybe OH would sponsor it and make it part of their library... I don't have the skills or the time to do it, but I'd be happy to contribute research time occasionally if someone else wanted to do it. Just a thought. I know I'd refer to it often if it existed... ---- Leslie

The one I still can't find a logical explanation for is that 'carbonated drinks stretch the pouch.' DeeDee

I don't know of any research on that one, but I have to say that it doesn't seem logical to me. The pouch has two exits for any trapped air, so I don't see how carbonation could build up enough to do any damage. I also don't really buy into the pouch-stretching thing at all. I think that all pouches regain elasticity (stretchability) over time, and that is normal for stomach tissue. And I think that some of us have more natural elasticity in our stomach tissue than others. I know that my stomach pre-op had more elasticity than it should have--I would venture to say abnormal elasticity! I NEVER felt full pre-op. So I expect that my pouch will have a great deal of elasticity as well. Sure enough, as I get further out, I'm finding that I generally don't get that uncomfortable "full" feeling anymore unless I'm eating something particularly dense, like meat or a bagel. I've been told by 4-5 yr+ posties that many of them *never* get that full feeling anymore, and these are people who have been careful never (or at least rarely) to overeat since their surgeries. So I think it's the natural elasticity of the tissues returning that allows us to eat more over time, not "stretching" like an overfilled balloon that you let the air out of and it stays floppy and loose forever after. I do think that some of us end up using some intestine or esophagus to hold more food, but I don't think we're growing our pouches bigger by drinking sodas. (I don't drink sodas because they make me burp like a fiend, but I don't think they would hurt me if I did.) I may be wrong, but there it is. ---- Leslie

There are logical explanations both ways Arguement -> "Fill a baloon with soda, watch it stretch." Rebuttal -> "Our pouch has two exit points, so put two holes in the baloon and see how much it stretches. Rebuttal -> "The exit point to the enstistines just give more room, but it is ultimately close. The other end (esophogus) is closed until enough presure builds to cause a burp. Until the burp, preasure is constant. If consistent overeating can stretch the pouch, then consistent gas presure could likewise." Rebuttal -> "Who said overeating can stretch the pouch?" Side Arguement -> "Its not the pouch that stretches, but the stoma." Rebuttal -> Why would it stretch the stoma? The is no obstruction to the gas there?" Side Arguement -> "Its the other stuff in soda that is unhealthy" Rebuttal -> "Thats a horse of a different color." General Conclusion - > "My Doc said so." Basically, you end the arguement where you want to believe the conclusion Tek

my exit from my intestines is not closed and passes gas, ie from carbonation etc, quite freely, just ask my DH.

Just have a few pieces of sugar free chocolate with malitol or any other of those demon "tols" and you'll find out how many exits you have! (sorry, couldn't resist it)

OK, I'll weigh in with what I've found and been told- First the RDA of Protein- For-women 25 to 51+ years of age, - 50 grams of protein per day. For- men 25 to 51+ years of age,- 63 grams of protein per day. I have found the 30gm max absorption "In one sitting" (and what could be more ambiguous than-"in one sitting?") Discussed in two texts- "The Athlete's Kitchen" by Nancy Clark MS RD And- "Sports Nutrition" by Dan Benardot Ph.D., RD (University Library at my finger tips, go figure) But both of these sources qualify this 30gm "rule" By stating that the specific number varies as much as 4 gms Based on the individual. They are in agreement that "in one sitting" Is approximately a 4 hour period. This 4 hours based on the breakdown and absorption Of complex proteins into the various amino acids. Both texts state that these time/amount figures Are not "completely" applicable to "The absorption ready protein formulas found In many commercial supplements" And the both suggest deferring to the specific product for Absorption rates. In agreement with Tek- These studies were conducted on college athletes Not MO folks beyond their late teens and early 20's. Now, as is my nature, I digress..... How I got to these texts is a result of a "Fact" I was presented with on the AMOS Main-Board. About 6 months after my surgery, About 4 ½ months prior to posting or replying or creating A profile on this site, I read two nurses, Yes, Real Nurses, Tell others that they could not add protein powder To any food to be cooked, because the heat of cooking Would destroy and negate the protein. "It even says not to heat it on the label!" They sneered at the person questioning their authority. I went to my nutritionist, and asked "WHAT!?!?!" She explained that the confusion comes from the same urban legend That has athletes drinking raw eggs so as to get "all of the benefits." Cooking does in fact "denature protein." Simply meaning that the structure is changed. The protein remains virtually unchanged! ("Virtually," there's another ambiguous qualifier) (In the case of eggs, it actually helps to cook them Because the compound Avidin, is found in egg whites Along with Biotin, and the Avidin will destroy the Biotin During digestion, except when the egg white is cooked.) (OK, I lived on eggs for months 3 through 7, my favorite food.) (I'm sure I've single-handedly eaten several generations of "Chickens that Might Have Been") Back to the Nutritionist.... Being a pushy college professor who had just narrowly escaped Death in a hospital filled with experts, I asked her- "How do you know this?" "Says Who?" She lead me to the books on nutrition, where I have found out few, If any absolutes. By talking to the Nutritionist, I did get her opinion- (one, that she did offer a list of names of studies on, but I was too busy to track down) That in the case of RNY patients, the possible absorption Time/amount figures were reduced and were far closer to 24gms In a 4 hour period than the 30gms that the Weight Trainers throw around. My surgeon had set me up on a minimum of 95gms per day And my nutritionist told me to make sure I - "Spread the intake out over the day so as to maximize absorption." So, I've gone with it. I'm sure if I was sailing my ship from Norway to Sicily in Pre-Copernicus times, I'd have used the "Flat Earth" Maps In order to get there. As for the straws? First few months in the hospital That's what they gave me to "eat" through. Never a problem for me.

Sorry, And as if I didn't babble enough--- The RDA for proteins has changed 3 times in the last 8 years. I guess every class that graduates Has to "show up" those that came before..... Just a thought. Best Wishes- Dx

I buy into the 25-30g protein at a time idea mainly because both my doctor and my nutitionist have said it. Plus, it just seems logical to me. But prior to your post, I hadn't seen any documentation or even references to documentation on the topic. So thanks for sharing what you've read. Still not conclusive, but better than nothing! ---- Leslie