THIS IS NOT EASY

I HAD MY SURGERY ALMOST 6 YRS AGO I WENT FROM 303 TO 140 AND HAVE GAINED BACK TO 185 AND HAVE STAYED BETWEEN 180 AND 190 FOR THE LAST 3 YRS. I WORRY CONSTANTLY ABOUT GETTING FAT AGAIN, I GET FREAKED OUT SOMETIMES WHEN I TRY A PAIR OF PANTS ON AND THEY FEEL TOO TIGHT, OR I LOOK AT THIS FLAB HANGING ON MY STOMACH AND I GET SO DISCUSTED SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE A COMPLETE FAILURE AT TIMES. IT IS NOT EASY TO GO ON THIS TIME OUT ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE CRAVING FOOD ALL THE TIME. I AM VERY THANKFUL FOR THE LOSS OF WEIGHT BUT AT THE SAME TIME I HATE THE WAY I LOOK AND THE CONSTANT WORRY IS KILLING ME. I CAN NOT AFFORD THE SURGERY FOR THE SKIN AND MY INSURANCE WILL NOT COVER IT . I AM SORRY AND I DO NOT MEAN ANY HARM WHEN I SAY SOME OF YOU MAKE IT SOUND SO EASY TO JUST GO BACK TO THE BASICS, WHILE I TRY AND I TRY BUT SOMETIMES IT JUST DOES NOT WORK,  JUST WANTED TO VENT A LITTLE, PLEASE DO NOT YELL. I AM JUST FEELING SORRY FOR MYSELF   LOVE YOU ALL AND I REALLY DO ENJOY READING ABOUT ALL THE SUCCESS YOU ARE ALL HAVING,  LOVE YA BRUCE

(((((Bruce)))))  It isn't easy.  Being overweight and loosing the pounds is the hardest addiction of all.  (My opinion).  In other addictions, you can give up the tirggering substance completely.  In food........not such a choice. Do you participate in any support groups in person?  Do you commnicate with folks from OH regularly?  Would you like to? SIX YEARS!!! Wonderful job!  You lost more than half of your body and then settled at a person who is only sixty percent the size you once lived.  Your results seem to be right in line with the average regain over time.  No failure anywhere!  It IS about health.  Keep your spirits high.  Vent ANYTIME.  It helps.  I speak from experience, partner. Vicky

Bruce, I have felt everything that you are feeling.  Finally, I got to the point where I decided I am NOT going to feel that way ANYMORE!  I had been away from this support community for way too long.  I got too sure of myself that I could do it without help.  I was wrong.   I gained 40 pounds and I am 4 years out. I am starting Time Out tomorrow.  I AM going to succeed and I am never going to leave this community again.  YOU CAN DO IT TOO!  What I am also doing is retraining my mind.  I am saying to myself over and over and over.  TIME OUT is MY NEW ADDICTION!  If I can be addicted to food I can be addicted to health!  Try, if you fall, get back up and try again.  I have faith in you! Becky

I've been away for a while too, and not to bash TOer's...but many of us will not be succesful at this because it is a "quick fix" to a problem we have ALL dealt with most of our lives.  Those of us that have gained a few (including me) can point the finger at one thing, we lost control.  Too much of the wrong foods and grazing are the #1 causes I've seen in this forum.  The only way is to get BACK TO BASICS.  Does that mean starving ourselves--ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!  Immediately post-op was different because many of us had to force ourselves to eat; physiologically, we weren't able and so, lost the desire.  Once you get far enough out, you are normal for all other intents and purposes.  My surgeon says the only way to get the weight off and maintain it is by making healthful choices.  Some people use TO, but the reality is their body is going into starvation mode and it is very likely that any weight lost WILL reappear if the root of the problem is not addressed, just like any other "diet".  I'm not a doctor, but my nutritionist suggests eating when your hungry...POINT BLANK!  Does that mean chowing down on fast food or a plate of spaghetti?  No, but it does mean that we should be making food choices that satisfy us without filling us out.  I'm trying to lose 15lbs and she recommended not only using my body as a guide, but trying to stay around 1000cals a day.  When I feel hungry, I drink at least 16oz of water and wait about half an hour to see if its "real".  If it is, I make a shake (I have at least 2 a day), small salad w/ LF dressing, have a hot 'n spicy V8, or eat some dense protein.  When I first started, I was eating about 4 times a day, not including my shakes.  Did I want some junk--OF COURSE!  But, I am doing well because this is how things shoulda been all along and I don't feel deprived of anything.  I can enjoy sweet and savory food choices, I've just made a more realistic choice that is for the long haul-as it should have been from the beginning.  And believe it or not, even with eating every 3 or 4 hours, I STILL barely make 1000cals/day.  It's all about choices!

When we signed up for this, it required a change in LIFESTYLE.  I have to admit, I get quite annoyed when I read the "bandwagon" posts that have prevailed in this forum in the last month or so because the reality is that for everyone that "succeeds", there are a dozen or more who simply can't (and won't say so) and as a result feel despondent and depressed at what appears to be a failure for them.  That's nothing personal against those that feel they have or are succeeding at TO, but the outcome would be the same if you were on MediFast or some other liquid protein diet.  They aren't easy and neither is this because it's not realistic.  We NEED good carbs and we NEED an adequate amount of calories or a method to fool our bodies into thinking so.  Talk to your doctor/nutritionist and let them help you lose safely and regain control of your eating.  Until then, stay physical, drink your water, stock up on what's good for you, keep it handy, and when you're hungry EAT!

I could be wrong but I don't think getting 60 to 120 grms. of protein a day is going to throw a body into starvation mode. I do believe this is difficult, truely. However, sugar, empty carbs ARE NOT necessary to live a healthy life style. The purpose for me using the TO is to gain some control over my addiction, sugar and empty carbs. I believe when I started gaining weight is when my body went into "starvation" mode....holding onto every calorie I put in it because it was not getting enough protein vs. empty calories. I am eating when I get hungry....two or three bites of solid food when my POUCH feels empty  is fine for now. I disagree that we are as normal as other people. We have pouches now, and absorb carbs at a much faster rate than a normal person....well, at least I do....I will increase my solid food intake according to how my body responses to the TO.  It sounds as though you have never lost a handle on the basics of healthy eating but for many the old patterns and mental illnesses do return if not kept in check.  When I stopped drinking alcohol years ago it was WAY easier than it has been for me to completely stop eating refined sugars. I truely believe they are a drug, and poison to some people as Carla said. That being said, I am happy that you have had good success with your loss and keeping it off.  I'm in year four and have had a gain of 30 lbs. but did make my goal weight initially. Actually went under weight a bit. All while eating every TWO TO THREE hours.  I believe that, for me, doing TO IS taking control of my situation and not crash dieting or starvation. To me, starvation is not giving yourself the nutrition it needs to the point that your body refuses to burn calories and refuses to do anything but hang onto unnessary weight.  I've also read that many many countries, including a lot of people in the US (Alan Alda did a special on Science America about this subject) believe that an 800 cal. a day diet actually increases a person's life span....there's a lot of information out there and it's up to each person to make their own call on what is best for them. The TO approach is a good one for me. IT IS NOT EASY, NOT EASY AT ALL but well worth my effort. Thanks for your input though.

A body can go into starvation mode any time calories are severely restricted, it doesn't matter where they come from.  I don't know about our absorption rates becasue they vary, but our caloric needs are similar to those of non-ops (about 2000/day), we just aren't physically able to consume those cals the same way.  You gotta remember, Patty has said repeatedly that this is HER dr's treatment plan...my doctor and nutritionist would not and did not approve this for ME.  Furthermore, they only suggest measures like this for super-obese pre-ops.

Again, I said GOOD carbs are essential, not the bad stuff we often crave and cave to!  And I too have struggled with addictive behaviors, which I why I required WLS at some point.  Having said that, many therapy/support sessions have helped me identify my own weaknesses with going to extremes--I would deny myself food (started soup diets in 7th grade), then "fail" , then binge, and start all over again.  Years of yo-yo dieting left me with a sluggish metabolism and a sense of failure that I would like to think most people on this board can relate to.  Of course, we should all do what's best for us as individuals.  But then you get posts from people who feel like failures because they ATE SOMETHING?  That makes me feel bad.  As WLS grads, we have made it to the other side and we should support each other in living a healthy lifestyle despite, and even in spite of, the challenges that are sure to come.  It just concerns me that so many are in line with a medically supervised program, but they're not medically supervised!  Again it's not anything personal against anyone, but the similarities between the TO buzz and "food free" lunchtable me and my friends had in high school are strikingly disturbing.  We wouldn't eat, or maybe just lettuce or carrots (depending on the week/fad) and then encourage each other by sharing how well we were doing by not eating.  The whole thing was totally dysfunctional, so why is it okay now?

I understand the point you are trying to make. I do.  My point is that yes, your stand on eating behaviors is a valid one...my point is this.... SOME people will abuse the pouch tool, SOME people will gain all of their weight back, SOME people will do the TO without doctor's supervision, some will learn the TO program from their own physicians, etc. etc.  It felt like you were generalizing and lashing the people that are practicing the TO plan because YOUR doc said no....I called both of my doctors and they said it was a good program and what the pouch is all about in the first place.  I have many many health problems and I DON't go into this lightly.  I am not in high school any longer, I am much more informed and educated now.  I can see the analogy you draw between this issue and your high school years but I do believe some of that is possibly projection on your part.  You must admit that it is unwise to assume that Patty, or Carla, or myself  or the others are so niave as to jump into this uniformed. I don't think that assumption lends positive support to anyone. Patty has refered to her doctor many times. I'm sorry that you feel the need to convert us to the line of thinking that your nutritionalist and doctor are asking you to conform to but as I said earlier, there are many schools of thought on this and I believe they should be respected, not negated. I was just a bit concerned that your post was condemning those of us that feel safe coming here and asking for support from each other.  It is not necessary to agree with everyone on their choice of path but it is also not nice to insinuate that anorexia or other eating disorders are being practiced.  This is a safe haven for many people. Again, it's fine and reasonable that we would disagree on aspects of this topic.  However, I don't believe I would be doing anyone any service by sending them a post, negating what they are doing, the success they are achieving, the hard work they are investing, and the intelligent way they are approaching their long term post-op life style.

The context of my post was SUPPORT for a man that was struggling with the fact that he could not NOT EAT in accordance with a program posted on this site.  I offered words of encouragement in line with a healthful outlook on losing his regain.  I haven't negated others...my posts were in response to HIS thread...he has not been successful with TO despite his attemps at following the plan AND is frustrated at the success he "sees" others having, but is unable to attain himself at the moment.  I don't intend to have anyone do what my docs say, TO or not.  And I do not assume that certain individuals are uninformed about their choice or practicing eating disorders.  It's not for me to judge another's personal decisions.  However, MANY of us have struggled with eating disorders (including me) so that high school analogy had less to do with maturity or naivete and EVERYTHING to do with the attitude MANY of us had and have about food, which was a root cause of our obesity.  You are absolutely right, this should be a place where we all can feel safe and respected, but you must understand that this very matter makes this an unsafe place for some others, myself included.  I'm not condemning anyone or their personal choice, so if anyone feels that's the case, please accept my apology.

Thanks for your response. I also apologize for seeming a bit sensitive about it....and you were right to support Bruce in his struggle. I acknowlege that I am sensitive at the moment, due in large part to my withdrawl from sugar!!  And yes, I do agree with your feelings about the collective eating issues we all have here. I'll get back on the board when I've been off sugar for a few more days!

Well, first of all, you have to always REMEMBER that this surgery was a 'tool' and that tool will ALWAYS work for you, for the rest of your life.  Even if you stretch it out by eating a lot, you can shrink it again by eating small portions.  You can also restart your 'dumping' mechanism by eating proteins and veggies for a few weeks.  I know this because I've done it several times in the last six years since my surgery.   However, the willpower has to be your own and you have to want to be thin MORE than you want the food - it's that simple.   Also, I would venture to say that at least 85% of RNY patients regain some or a LOT of their weight back within 5 years.  Most start gaining at the 2 year mark.  I have personally gained and lost more than once.  However, when I go back to the pouch rules and do what's right, my tool always works and I lose again.  Right now, I'm 3 pounds from my lowest weight since surgery and my measurements are smaller than they've ever been since surgery.  This time, I've done it by eating only one thing every hour and not allowing myself to get full and I don't eat meals.  But that one thing can be a candy bar or whatever I want - I just have to make sure I don't get full.  So far, I've dropped 24 pounds and I plan on FINALLY getting to my goal! I used to be a size 32 and now I'm a size 8 and I'm not through yet! So, don't get discouraged - get motivated!  Just remember, when you learned how to ride a bike, the only way you succeeded is to get back up on the bike when you fall and keep on riding!  You'll only get to your destination the same way!  Get back up and keep riding!