sequal to tosha's question

I love the advice everyone gives when someone cries out for help. Stop eating sugar, push water & protein etc. I am trying not to be sarcastic so I hope it doesnt come out like I am BUT I started this journey at 360 pounds and did not get there by having any will power. So I guess my question is this...How do you develope the willpower to do the things we all know we should be doing & to be truthful if we did them previously we wouldnt have been a candidate for the surgery in the first place. I am not trying to start trouble. I would just like everyone's opinions. I read about alot of you being "super gastric bypass" patients and it makes me jealous. I am a success losing 160+ pounds and keeping it off for almost 3 years but I struggle so hard every single day. I am still obese by standards and hate my body more than ever. For me this is not a simple matter of I know whats the right thing to do...so do it.....How do all you coop? Diana RNY 9/17/03 360/199/struggling towards personal goal of 180

Diana, I can relate to your frustration and completely understand what you are saying. It is hard to do what we know we need to do at times and I too want to know how to develop willpower. I've conquered getting my water, exercise, vitamins and protein in daily. I have a hard time with how much I eat. I know what I should do, but there are days that I just don't do it! I come to this site three or four times a week and just read what everyone has to say. That helps me greatly. Everyone has such great advice and it does help to read what the successful posters have to say. When I read Judy's advice to Tosha, I was floored! I printed her post and am going to refer to it anytime I have a weak moment (which is too often). I'm petrified that I will gain my weight back but some days do what I know I shouldn't be doing... snacking/grazing. Its those times that I hope Judy's post will set me straight. I have no answer to your question. I really don't think there is one. I think each individual has to be accountable to themselves and that we are to the point where our weight control is mostly mental (which is what Judy addresses). Wishing you the best with your journey... and know you are not alone! Wanda

I agree with you that there is more to making the right choices than information. I have a favorite saying, "To know is to do; to not do is to not know." There is a type of knowledge that transforms us and there is the knowledge that merely informs us. I am only 7 months out and have not really be tested yet in terms of hunger or cravings. But I am focusing on changing my behavior, replacing old habits with new ones, so when the challenges do come, I have more strategies to deal with them. For example, nighttime boredom led to nighttime munching. So now I knit--a lot--and that keeps my head and hands busy. So I don't want to stop what I'm doing to get up and snack. Also, many emotional eaters eat as a coping mechanism. So I am trying to find non-food related de-stressors. Now that I can get in and out of the tub comfortably, that is one. Going to the dog park, trying on clothes at a very expensive store (don't take the credit cards!), reading OH messageboards, exercies, etc. can all be substitutes. And of course there is always learning to handle the stress! In my few months into this process, I have come to understand that for me it is about so much more than the surgery. The surgery gave me the hope I needed to believe I even had a fighting chance. But it is really about changing my thinking and behavior. I don't make perfect choices, but I work at making the better ones. WLS is a great tool and it has made a world of difference for me. But it is about more than will power; it is about self-knowledge and being wise about knowing what I can control and what I can't. I can chose what to eat but not what I'll lose. I can even chose to change how I think about food--to take away its emotional power and treat it like the nutrition it is. I started addressing some of my food issues a couple of years before I ever thought of researching WLS. I am a bookish person, so I read and re-read books on health, nutrition, and weight-loss when I need a boost. Have you read "Passing for Thin"? She didn't have WLS, but did lose a significant amount of weight. I don't know if this helps at all, and I sympathize with your struggle. I don't know what I will be facing three years out, but I am trying to learn from the grads. Sally

I have yet to reach anywhere near my goal. I still have at least 50 pounds to lose to reach the top end of my normal BMI range and that now includes a 16 pound bounce back in the last 6 months. I was willing to accept being 193 pounds, but 193 + 16 is not acceptable to me so I am on my quest to find out why it is that I eat when I am not hungry. I do have to eat every 3 hours to avoid hypoglycemic episodes, but making healthy choices and doing that would not cause weight gain. My culprit is something different and involves just looking for something to eat when hunger and fuel are not the issue. In my quest I found a book and I am in the middle of reading it right now. I have to say that this makes more sense to me than anything I have ever encountered. The fact that I am half way through it since yesterday afternoon says a lot since I tend to glaze over self-help books and just skim them. My next step will be to go back through the book and actually do her exercises. The name of the book is "Life is Hard Food is Easy" it is a 5-step plan to overcome emotional eating and lose weight on any diet. What I am finding is that it i****ting a number of buttons with me. I had the surgery to gain a useful tool, but they did not operate on my brain. I just ordered 3 more of this book so that I can give to friends. The author, Linda Spangle, RN, MA, actually provides understandable tools to work through things in our quest to understand why we turn to food. She also explains head hunger and heart hunger. Only time will tell if I am capable of benefiting from her book, but I hope so. I know that in my case there are two components to my obesity: how my body functions AND how my brain functions in response to stress, anger, fear, sadness, happiness, success, failure, etc etc. What I know for now is that when I started reading the book, I found a LOT that I recognized and she provided sensible tools for beginning the process of dealing. Anyway, I thought I would pass along the title of the book just in case you are at a point in your post-op life where you wish to discover more about why you eat what you eat when you eat it. It is most interesting. Sandy

Sandy, Thanks so much for that recommendation. I have the book, it has been sitting on my shelf staring at me for a couple of weeks now. Time to set aside some quality time this weekend and read a few chapters. I do hope we both can find some answers to these questions. I appreciate your efforts to help, too. Carole

I think that most of us get to be obese for many factors. For myself, if you were to take a look at my family you would see that ALL of the women are fat and ALL of the men are bald. Genetics played a HUGE part in my obesity. But I LOVED food. I loved its taste and texture. I loved the way it felt in my mouth and in my stomach - EVEN when I was miserable after a binge. I had no willpower where food was concerned. But by the time I had my surgery, my relationship with food began to change. I really couldn't stand it. I hated what it was doing to my body. I hated that it was more important to me than my daughter. I hated that I couldn't control it. I was really ready to let it go. So I had my surgery. And I was really glad. I was ready. The morning of my surgery I was STARVING. And that was the last time I felt real hunger for more than a year. I was one of the lucky ones. My physical hunger disappeared. And I felt too miserable to want to eat. I had to check the clock to know whent to eat. And head hunger was not too much of an issue. As I healed, I began to experiment with food. I dumped a few times and that kept me in check for a while longer. Now, mind you, I was not "perfect." I tried cake, ice cream, cookies, all my favorites. Sometimes I could eat them with no consequences and sometimes I paid heavily. But, I didn't beat myself up for "falling off the wagon." I had done that for too many years. Others had done that for too many years. And I was done with that part of the cycle. Then I reached goal at 13 months post-op. And my physical hunger returned. Suddenly I wanted to eat again. OMG!! What was I gonna do now? Well, I ate. And I gained. It was only 8 pounds, but it scared the crap out of me. I began to exercise. Nope, I had not exercised regulaly during my weight loss phase. And I began to record EVERYTHING that I ate. And I found this site because I began to look for help. Someone posted the link for "Pouch Rules for Dummies." I thought "I'm a dummy, why not?" So I checked it out and it made a lot of sense to me. It echoed a lot of what my surgeon had already told me (not to drink with meals) and some new information (why they think this tool works) and how to make it work for me. So I have let those rules become my willpower, if you will. So now I live by the timer. Here's kinda what I do every day. It works for me. It may work for you. If it doesn't keep looking until you find what works for you, but don't give up!! 1. Drink 2 cups of coffee with sugar and creamer. Yep, sugar. 2. Drink 36 oz of water. 3. Set timer for 15 minutes. 4. Eat protein. 5. Set timer for 60 minutes. 6. Drink 48 oz of water. 7. Set timer for 15 minutes. 8. Eat protein. 9. Set timer for 60 minutes. 10. Drink 48 oz of water. 11. Set timer for 15 minutes. 12. Eat protein and veggies. 13. Right before bed have a yummy snack (whatever I want in moderation). 14. Pee ALL day I have done this for the last 10-12 days and I have not wanted to eat everything in sight, I have not had any cravings, I have lost 4 pounds, AND I feel in control again. Here's the link: http://www.gastricbypassfamily.com/PouchRules.html If this helps you, great. If not keep looking. XOXOXO, Sharyn

Hi Diana, (warning! looong post!) In reading YOUR statement: "...I started this journey at 360 pounds and did not get there by having any will power" it seemed as if I were reading MY OWN words. No, my start weight was not the same - the variables are different, but living morbidly obese (for over 26 years) is certainly not being the "poster child" for "self-control" --- which means most of us ex-M.O'ers truly understand how living in "out-of-control-world" works. Yikes. I spent DECADES (2.5) allowing my repeated failures at following through countless diets DICTATE what I thought of myself. Loser. Failure. No-will-power-schmuck. What's different this time is the weight-loss jump start that WLS gave me. Partner that with slowly learning *****ally I was/am... trying to separate the physical from the mental. Slowly taking BABY STEPS at talking better TO myself. About myself. And I do mean taking "Baby Steps" - small steps towards thinking healthy. (emotionally healthy) Granted the first 2 years I was all about the "physical". My profile goes into detail the physical issues I had: pulmonary embolism, severe hair loss (wore wigs for almost a year), bowel obstruction (2 x), gallbladder surgery, etc. I rejoiced in the weight loss while struggling to survive... I could gloss over all the reasons "why" for all the physical after-math. I chose to accept most of it for what it really was: consequences of living in an unhealthy body for so long. For the most part - I had "done it to myself"... Looking back, those first 2ish years I realize I "lost myself" for awhile. I focused on my changing body (the weight loss) as my evidence of my "success" or "failure". I lost the weight really well. Lost too much. My distorted body image wouldn't let me see how sick I really looked. I focused on the loose skin. At times I hated myself and how I looked almost as much as I did prior to losing weight. I had to lose more. My "personal goal" changed - over and over and over. First: under 200. Then under 190. Then it shifted to "sizes": Size 10. Size 8 (single digits you know) Size 6. Size 4. Size 2... when I landed in a 2 at 5' 7" tall I felt bad, but loved the "power" of trying on ANYTHING I wanted & have it hang on me...Is that any healthier than being morbidly obese? Then, one day, I caught a glimpse of a skinny, sick-looking lady in a store window and actually didn't recognize her ---- me. My mind was in shock as I truly saw myself for the first time. Reeling from the "truth" I slowly, ever so slowly made changes in my THINKING that resulted in changes in my behavior and eating. (my profile) I gained weight. I gained well! Too much. I adjusted & lost. I fought & struggled and slowly I realized I wasn't struggling so hard anymore. My focus had gradually shifted to my family and my church and my parents and hiking and planting flower beds and taking my youngest son to soccer and date nite and, and, and... Food no longer consumed my every thought. Eating, losing, gaining , planning, no longer filled my waking moments...WOO HOO! I don't even know if there was a "defining moment" or many many small ones, but Diana, it was small tweaks & shifts ON PURPOSE in my THINKING that has brought me to this place. It's not been easy. No "super gastric bypass" patient here. But I can tell you this, you are not alone in your struggle. But, having kept the weight off for over 3 years as you have, you have shown - you have PROVEN, that - INDEED YOU DO have will-power. You have resolve. You have strength beyond your recognition of it. Your success is amazing!!!! (and, by the way, could it be your "body's goal" is different than a "number"?) Diana, could it be that will-power/resolve/struggle are all merely facets of the same thing? Can it be that as you struggle, you in truth, are getting stronger and stronger and eventually the fight will be less intense? Diana, if a cocoon is altered and opened prematurely- the butterfly will die. The butterfly needs the struggle to strengthen it's wings in order to fly... so...fly!

Wow, Judy, that was a powerful post. I think I am where you were at this point in your journey. I still obsess over food and calories. I also kept lowering my personal goal, to the point that now I know I am too thin, but I secretly love it. I want to relish in it. Yes it is amazing to put on size 2 jeans with ease, and to actually have them be loose on me. I can't explain to anyone besides a formerly MO person, what this feels like. I find myself thinking alot lately, like when will this food thing stop engulfing my mind all the time. I do think I will try to find a hobby or something to keep my mind busy. I know I should start adding some more good carbs into my diet to maintain where I am, but mentally I can't bring myself to eat that oatmeal, or piece of whole wheat toast. I'm totally terrified. I'm finding this a problem. On Easter, I was one year post op, and made a SF oreo cheesecake, which was THE BOMB, I must say. I allowed myself one piece, which was the first SF dessert or treat I had allowed myself since day of surgery. I pride myself that I was and am so strict with myself. I was the model weight loss patient, and I was rewarded with no stalls during my loosing, and had a great weight loss of 175 lbs. Now I was hearing from people that I was too strict with myself, that I have to let myself try something once in awhile. Now I know that I should begin to maintain my weight, I can't get past the point in my mind that the weight loss part of my journey is over, and I have to find out how to live the rest of my life with this process, and continue living. It's so hard.

Hi Judy, Wow that was a helpful post. I and 18mos and up until a few weeks ago the only thing that I cared about was how I looked and the attention I was getting from men and even went as far as to have an affair. I got extremely sick after my plastic surgery last month and was told I could die if they could not correct the problem and get the infection under control. That put so many things in prospective for me, I told my husband about the affair and we have agreed to stayed married and work things out. But I am still so scared of obession with how I look, I dont want to be that person, I want to be exactly what you described, devoted to my family, church and other hobbies that I have yet to figure out what I like. My rev told me that maybe getting this illness was giving me an opportunity to have still quite time to figure some things out. I have come to realize that the same low self esteem I had before the weight loss is still there, it was just masked by attention from men. I am so scared that I will not get emotionally healthy. How did you do it? I appreciate any advise you have to offer Melissa

Thanks to all for thier imput & kindness. I must admit I was choking up after reading all the responses. Damn Im a silly female . Sometimes it is very hard for me to ake any credit for my weight lose. I must admit that keeping it off is due to me...WOW cant believe I can admit that. Even with the knowledge that I eat something horrible everyday, I know that I stop at 3 cookies instead of 30. I struggle at the grocery store to not buy them but at times I can be pretty persuasive I just have to take each day as it comes and if I eat wrong...do better the next day. Heck that is what every "skinny" person I know does anyway. I also want to say that I read the book and love it too....AND When I leave work today I am taking my lazy butt to rejoin the gym and I will use it Thanks to all your encouragement!!!! Good luck to us all. Diana