Scary Stuff Going On Here.......

Have that trouble here sometimes.

Quick hint:  When I write a long post, I copy it before I hit "submit" just in case.  Saves the day occasionally!

Hey -

Let's review what was post wasn't:

- It's not a response to something you've posted
- It's not about you
- It's not a plea to follow your surgeon's instructions
- It's not stating I follow my surgeon's dietary instructions to the letter (I do not and he would chasize me for it)
- It's not suggesting that you not come to your own dietary conclusions and needs
- It's not claiming to have insight into your frame of mind
- It's not infering that you're not ready for the surgery you're healing from, unless, you self-identify as one of the subjects I mention (haven't researched their diet, haven't thought about changing eating habits, or unready to cut their love affair with food). 

Given what you've written, I can guess you feel like you didn't adequately prepare or research your diet ahead of surgery, but honestly, that's just conjucture.  I really don't know why you decided my post was aimed squarely for you.

The irony though is that Frisco and I were both talking about crazy post-op diet plans... and you actually seem to support our statements.  You mention how you didn't want to follow his plan because you consider it too drastic - that's part of the point I'm making.  After surgery, you're beat up, inflammed, and probably emotional (I sure was) - and a big difference here can be in (1) how well you can eat the food in your diet plan (2) and how good that food is for you and how it helps you to lose weight and heal your body and (3) compliance.

If your reply really is about saying people aren't ready for surgery if they haven't researched it, I'm afraid I can't apologize or change my position.  My opinion is that to have gut-rearranging, life-altering surgery that completely changes how you ingest food for the rest of your life, you need to prepare for that ahead of time.  However, I feel a lot of this potential failure falls on the surgeons - I know some do very, very little to prepare people for the dietary and mental changes that must result from surgery.  That isn't to say they don't do their surgery well, but surgery is just one part of this process.

There are lots of reasons people aren't ready for surgery but get it anyway - what I see the vets saying a lot is "remember surgery fixes the body, not the mind".  The mind lags behind.  Some people are unfortunately sad, depressed, devoid of love, needing human compassion, and they fill the whole in their heart with food.  This devastates them, as they gain and gain - and some of us have been there.  Some people make other changes in their life as they change their eating habits - they are fortunate.  Others transfer their eating addiction to sex, shopping, gambling, alcohol and drugs.  They weren't prepared to say goodbye to their unhealthy love.  I think some of the saddest posts I've seen around here are from successful WLS peeps who cry because they are alcoholics now.  It's pretty rare, fortunately, but you'd wi**** would never happen at all.

Finally, I would evaluate your surgeon yourself, and think about him/her as a human being, and their level of experience, dedication, and success - I think we've all heard stories about surgeons where it could be quite questionable to follow their advice (like the examples I mentioned in my first post - I guy hurting himself by literally forcing 4oz of meat into his sleeve at two weeks out).  Regardless - people will still flame me for questioning surgeon instructions.  But I'm pretty sure not all surgeons are equal (very, very sure of this).

I've been on here long enough to know Frisco wants people to be successful; if you doubt that, you do not know the man or his pretty amazing story.  I think that Frisco is worried about recent challenges he's observed from people here, and he's right to bring that to the forefront for discussion and observation.  That, in itself, is not a judgement against you because you happen to be recently sleeved.  You're *****y, smart, and dedicated, so I'd lay money down that you're going to achieve the success your foretell.  (Your questions aren't centered around "how can I eat around my diet plan... ) But I disagree that pointing out trends, or pitfalls, isn't being supportive.  I think Frisco's original post can give a pre-op or new post-op a lot of insight into what could do awry, or what could really be unoptimal.  Sometimes you have to look at the big picture.  IF surgeons are making bigger stomaches AND people are getting crapy diet plans AND people have unrealistic expecations AND people really do quit a lot after 6 months AND people are remaining hungry after surgery.... well, then VSG will in fact be less successful.  Do any of us individually want to be one of the unsuccessful people?  Hell no.  Can you have some of that and still be successful?  Of course.  But I'm a gambling man and play the odds - only bet on likely things... and even then, I like to stack the cards in my favor (which, for me, was locating an excellent surgeon and researching the crap out of this).

You're sassy.  Love it.  Never change.

I took it personally because Frisco said he was concerned with my eating because of a post I had made, which someone asked what will be your first real food and I said I will eat a scrambled egg with cheese, an ounce of refried beans with cheese, yogurt for a snack and I didn't know what else for dinner. That was what I was going to eat at one week post op (tomorrow) because that's what the paper said I could eat. After I said that someone told me to slow down. Frisco mentioned it in a later post and I said that I agreed that it was crazy and I thought my meal plan was moving to fast and I was going to add a puree stage in there, which I am confused about what really constitutes purees because different people have different things for full liquids (like yogurt and cottage cheese are full liquids for some but not for me) so I don't know what counts as purees. I've been asking on the board and no one's telling me. So anyway, I did the research beforehand on what the plans would be LIKE, as in the stages and types of food but I also knew that my surgeon was going to give me a step by step manual so I didn't need to have 10 manuals prepare. Now that my surgeons plan doesn't sound right to me and has me eating eggs and tuna at 1 week out, I am very, very confused and I'm trying to find something more slow but not as slow as Cirangle's plan.

Ok, fast forward. Frisco said it concerned him so obviously that added to his concern of the newbie meal plan concern issue and then when you said:

- The mushie stage is for any kind of mushy foods!  Mashed potatoes with gravy and ice cream!
- My surgeon said it was ok to eat full solids and ruffage two weeks after surgery

 

I assumed you were speaking of me, so if I think you're speaking to me, of course, I am going to address the issue because that's not cool.

As far as being ready, I was as ready as I'll ever be for this. There's a point when you hit rock bottom and you have no choice but to do this. Let me tell you, I hated the preop diet, I hate these liquids, I hate not drinking soda and having bread, I hate not having burritos and pizza, but I understand and accept my future without these foods and I barely even crave them because I don't just WANT a better life, I NEED a better life otherwise there is no point in existing. I CAN NOT live this way anymore. It is not an option. This is not a game for me. I cut out my stomach. That's some REAL ****It's the most serious decision I've ever made in my life.

For me to feel like that's being questioned makes me defensive (since I thought it was partially directed towards me) and then on top of that, for people who haven't had the surgery yet to act like they know better or are going to have all the answers post op is ridiculous to me.

So, since it wasn't directed towards me, I'm fine, but I just needed to speak my mind since I thought it was, but I also need to state that for those of us with post op plans that are crazy, we're just doing what our surgeons said and then come here and find out that it seems a little off and then we want to find out what to do. Totally not our fault.

Great post....I'm still here after 8 mths.  I have enjoyed all the the tips you and the other Vets you listed have given us....Please continue to share your wisdom... I was happy that  you shared your surgeons plan a few  weeks back.  It has been helpful.  My surgeons plan was very to the point in the beginning. Not very helpful past the 6 mths mark.  I have even thought of paying for a visit to the dietitian to help me re focus...I have 35-40 pounds more to loose, so I really want to buckle down and fight the good fight...

Please continue to share.....we all need and appreciate it...

We love the food porn also...LOL

 Well said Frisco, well said!!!

I know you weren't pointing out anyone in particular, but I happen to have a 42f bougie and eat quite a bit more than you Frisco.

My doctors plan actually says 1000-1300 calories. My sleeve is definitely bigger than yours . I eat nothing but quality high protein foods and it seems to be working for me. Not to mention even though I eat about 1300 calories daily I am very active at the gym. I am also 6'1" with a large frame so even when I am "skinny" I am not a lightweight.

Personally I think there is way too much stress over numbers. I do believe it is important to track what you put into your mouth. The Difference between 900 calories and 1300 isn't really much if you factor in exercise. My personal strategy is full fat and moderate carbs around 70gms and around 100 + grams of protein. The fact of the matter is I'm losing, I have lots of energy, and I am happy.

I have no plans on dropping off of this forum after 6 months or a year. I will reach goal and not give up until I get there. Then I will maintain the rest of my life. 
 
I do agree with many of the points you have made though. And I take no offense if you were thinking about me as you typed your post.  Larger sleeves and higher calories do not necessarily equal failure. I will be living proof.

Are you sure that sleeve size matters that much? [Edited sentence in light of a later post: There have apparently been multiple studies showing sleeve size doesn't matter that much.] There hasn't been a definitive study showing that sleeve size (within reason, of course) matters all that much.

I'm personally very skeptical about these super tiny sleeves some doctors are doing. I think people may lose weight, but it's going to come at significant cost (GERD, later increased cancer likelihood, other issues).  Personally, I'm planning to ask for a 4-6 oz stomach rather than a 2-3 oz stomach. I don't want my stomach to essentially be a long esophagus, and I haven't seen any studies indicating that it should be.

All that having been said, I think the success rate of the VSG will go down over the years as well. Too many people are getting it. I suspect that the success rate of the DS would go down as well (though not as much as the VSG) if more people got the DS. In order to get a DS now, you have to be really determined. That used to be the same for the VSG. It's not any more, and I think you'll see decreased numbers going forward as a result.