RE: carbs...are you "normal" I say yes...and NO! I'll explain......

 Great Post, Thanks for the info

 I wholeheartedly agree that we cannot go back to doing what we did and expect a different result.  I also think it's important to separate carbs into different categories.  I was trying to get away from over-processed junk food before surgery.  I sometimes do worry, though, that to avoid some of these food groups at such an extreme is to set oneself up for a difficult battle when they do indeed crop up.  For those people who will never, ever, ever be tempted by a bite of Thanksgiving dressing or a baguette or some pasta.  Kudos to you!  I never was like that and can accept that I never will be like that.  And had I been like that, I probably would not have needed surgery in the first place.  I recognize that I will be faced with these foods.  And most of the time I resist temptation and make better choices.  On those rare occasions where I do gladly indulge in some carbs, I don't feel like the sky is falling or I'm on the black diamond slope back to obesity.  In fact, it was often that "all or nothing" slippery slope that got me into this position in the first place--for me, more than even the carbs by themselves.  All or nothing works well if you can do nothing always.  No, we are not normal (me probably less than others hehe ) and it's important for people new to this process to understand that there is a lot of discipline and do-it-yourself necessary to be successful with WLS.  Just as importantly, I think one must recognize this is not a lose-the-weight-diet.  To sound cliche, this is a lifestyle.  If you know that a cookie leads to a week-long, month-long, years-long eating fest, then it's advisable to stay away from a ccookie (however I would suggest that to be successful long-term one must look into this eating behavior and try to correct it, not simply remove the cookie from destruction path).  That is just my humble opinion as someone not as far out and not at maintenance, and not with the same level of perspective.  I just fear that if a couple bites of mac n' cheeese is all that stands between me and the (given slippery slope mentality) becoming MO again, I don't like my odds.  Therefore I am changing the way I deal with food, not just what I eat.

YES  we must ALL "know" ourselves W/ regard to "trigger" foods.  For me it is crunchy, salty,  carbs...chips of all kinds...tortilla... potato...pita...etc.  I don't "do" them very ofter....or keep them around....or the whole bag "disappears" somehow?    "know thy self!"

I totally agree with you Jimbo.  As soon as I was convinced I could eat like a "normal" person I started gaining weight again.  Even though my portions were considerably smaller then everyone else I realized that I cannot stay slim if I continue to consume too many carbs.  Like others have said, this is not a cure just a tool.

General Statement...."Normal" people don't eat cakes, cookies, pies, doughnuts, chips, crackers, soda, pizzas, burgers, ice cream, candy, etc all day.  That's what got us to being MO, not an occassional treat.  Weight gain will always (for 99% of us) be about calories in vs calories out.  All of those are highly processed foods with a lot of fat also.  Seems to me the goal is to avoid highly processed foods as much as possible (which eliminates high carbs and high fat counts).  Just a thought.

And i would add  More and more evidence is pointing to "types" of calories as the problem!  Not just simple math.....calories in calories out!  Also the reason MOST people "overeat" refined carbs is the vicious cycle of carb addiction....eat refined carbs....get hungry for more carbs......stimulate release of  insulin ......insulin resistance perpetuates the cycle!  It is a "tough" ride to get off!  I recommend the book......Why We Get Fat....and What to do about it ....by Taubes....it illustrates this point very clearly....a real "eye-opener!"

Jimbo, you are a rock star in my book.  i think you are totally correct and i also think many people are not ready to hear it.  I often hear the same thing over and over again, " I don't need to cut carbs, only the processed carbs, to lose weight.  My nutritionist told me so."  Well our nutritionists have been telling us really crappy information for years and we just keep getting bigger.  The truth for most of us, is just as you say it, to maintain the weight loss, we need to watch the carbs.  How much control we need to have depends on our individual body, metabolism, activity level and so on.  But no body comes back complaining that they gained weight by eating too much protein, it is always carbs.  When we are in the losing phase, our stomach is really small and we eat tiny amounts of food.  Our appetites are suppressed and we hardly ever have cravings.  Most of us, eat much larger portions at the two year mark and later, the appetite often comes back and the cravings too.  Yes, all of this is reduced compared to pre-surgery, but it is nothing like the first year.  There are some people that can maintain long term eating more carbs, it is rare, but it happens.  Good for them, (OK I am secretly jealous out of my mind), most of us have a different reality.

But how many of us gain weight eating yogurt, beans, milk, and fruit, which are all carbs? How many gain weight from brown rice and all bran cereal? I'm willing to bet that it's very few.

Obviously we can't go back to eating like before and maintain or lose weight with the sleeve. But not all carbs are created equal. I get really frustrated on this board because it seems like people talk about fruit and milk as being the same as donuts, pizza, and chips. And they're not!

Yes, I overate carbs when I gained all my weight. But I also overate with hamburgers, fried chicken, cheesesteaks, peanut butter, and other things that aren't necessarily high in carbohydrates.

I just think posts like this send the wrong message. All carbs aren't bad. Is anyone seriously going to tell me that we shouldn't be eating fruit? 

ETA: And I totally disagree that nutritionists always tell us crap! Talk about a generalization and a slam against the experts! I think the problem is that we didn't listen to nutritionists back before surgery or we cheated and didn't get results. At least that's what I did.

It is OK that you disagree with me.  In the end, we all have to find the truth that works for us.  As far as good vs. bad carbs, all carbs effect our body in the exact same way.  All carbs increase insulin resistance and create further cravings for carbs.  All carbs crowd out the little space we have left for protein.  As far as nutritionist in general knowing what they are talking about, I would simply point you to the incredible differences of opinion from registered dietitians and nutritionists.  I would also point out that much of what they preach is continually changing and evolving at a break neck speed.  Add to this the fact that very few of them have any knowledge of WLS and even fewer of them have knowledge of VSG and how that changes our anatomy and well....  You are free to chose to follow whoever you chose.  I wish you success with whatever diet you are choosing for yourself.  If it works to get you to goal and keep you there long term, yay for you.  If it doesn't, it helps to know other strategies. 

I know vegetarians who eat brown rice,  beans, dairy fruit, etc.....many are MO....This is not to say that isn't a "healthy way to eat....for some it may be fine....but for many "carb sensitive folks...brown rice, all-bran cereal are not "better" choices!  I was diabetic for 12+ years....switched to eating "whole grain" about 6 years ago......when I ate "organic brown rice" from Whole Foods....my blood sugars would spike.....just as if I drank a soda....sometimes over 350!  The only difference was it did it slower .....maybe 1/2 an hour as opposed to 10-15min.
   Again I am not against eating "healthy" carbs....like you mentioned....but for MANY of us...... even those "healthy" carbs do not work!  
    I would also "venture" a guess that MOST nutritionist....still advocate "old school" thinking.....like low to moderate fat (<30% of cals) and moderate carb intake(45-65% of cals) and 2200- 2800 cal per day This does NOT work for MO people.  Got to any regular "dietary guidelines" website......the numbers are way off for us!  Bariatric nutritionist are more educated on "our" needs....even some of them still "don't get it"  It is hard for them rethink the info they were given in school.  How many "medical professionals"  Have no clue about WLS   even the RNY which has been the "gold standard" for several decades.  There is a nutritionist on here (sublimate) ask her about the info she got while attending school.....If she got that info.....safe to say MOST other nutritionist have the same info!  Of course there will always be exceptions.....but I go with what is true for the majority (over 50%)