Simple or hard ?...You choose!

This is a topic that has been shared before, but I believe it needs to be shared again!

When I had my surgery (17 months ago...THANKS Marilyn), I really had to watch what I ate.  Being a newbie, I was scared of the food that was out there.  I hope that makes sense.  I did not want to "push the envelope" and try new things, simply because I was scared of what would happen.

I did the whole liquid diet before and after surgery.  Progressed to the pureed stage, the soft stage, and finally solids!  What a glorious day that was!  As the months went on, I started introducing more and more foods back into my daily regimen. 

My question is this...When is it too soon to introduce these foods?  By these foods, I mean soy/flax seed chips, protein bars and such.  I can't remember what my Dr. office actually told me about this.  I know that we need to make healthy and informative choices during this period.

I know that during the "weight loss stage", we are learning new habits.  We are learning new routines that will help us not only reach our goal weight, but move into maintenance phase as well.  My friend, the nurse, shared with me that she better not see one of her patents trying "protein bars" until they were at least 6 months out.

My concern is this...I see a lot of new folks (6 months or less), eating the same things I am eating at 17 months.  And I'm afraid, I'm the reason they are trying these things.  I'm scared that they look at me and say, "Wow, look at the success he is having, I guess it's all right to eat those things".

I don't want to be the person that contributes to someone else's failure to lose!  Yes, that's right, this is coming from the same person who has posted those sugar free desserts.  It has taken me a long time to realize that those same desserts are haunting me now!  When I should have been learning new things, I was actually cheating the system.

I apologize about this being long, but I don't want see anyone hurting themselves. 

So, here is my question...When should you be trying new things?  At what point post surgery should you be introducing new items into your daily plate?  And should those choices be different for people in the weight loss phase and the maintenance phase?

OK, enough ramblings from me!

Have a good day!

 Good topic, Scott!

IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!!  

You know, everyone is different and so are their surgeons, dietitians and post operative plans.  With the band, I was able to start mushies on Friday after my Monday surgery.  Some clinics do not permit you to do mushies for two weeks.  It just depends.  Surgeries are different too--with the band, as in my case, you just have a little belt in there to "cinch it."  You get back to a normal textured diet pretty quickly compared to other surgeries where things are cut and rerouted and need even more time to heal.

Then again, there are some of the Don't Quite Get It people who are eating salads the week after surgery.  I tried to give a little tough love to a gal who did that on the LapBand board, but she didn't take kindly to it.  A week later she was asking if it was too early to have a Diet Coke.  

I will confess to having had some of those yummy soy/flax seed chips and protein bars, as well.  For me, I realized the chips are too much of a trigger food and I won't buy them again any time soon.  I figure I'm better off eating a few bad for you traditional chips at a TexMex joint than to bring a bag into my house.

I'm faaaaar from perfect, which is probably why I've only lost about 20 pounds since surgery.  I haven't pushed the envelope as much as many, but I have pushed it a little.  I'm just grateful I can look at something as a learning experience and chalk it up as one.

I chose the band because I like sweets and want to have them OCCASIONALLY without horrific side effects, but mostly because I am a volume eater.  I just need extra help with portion control  And I wasn't comfortable with a huge weight loss very fast.  I thought my head would have a tough time keeping up with the physical changes brought about by a rapid weight loss.  

Ultimately, for me, I didn't want to live a life of total deprivation.  I just want to be able to have some things in moderation, where before I'd eat the whole thing and long for more.

I just love my experience so far--I'm learning how I operate mentally and what I can and can't do.  I know we touched on the trigger foods/what we can't have in our house at the spring picnic.  I have realized with great clarity that I'm much better off sharing a dessert with a table of people out than I am to bring the sweet stuff, like ice cream, home.  

Some stuff I'm better able to control myself around than others.  Ice cream?  Not so much.  Popsicles--I can do.  Things that are pre-portioned work for me better than bulk stuff.  Weighing stuff also works.  I haven't done pasta and only had a few spoons of rice since surgery (trying to leave out most of the white processed stuff).  But I do like something crunchy with my turkey and cheese roll ups.  I have had a bag of bagel crisps (6 servings) that I have been eating of of for well over a month!  I just weigh out 14g (half a serving), close the bag and I am okay with that.  Why I can do that with the bagel chips but not the soy chips is beyond me!

But as long as the weight slowly continues to drop, I'm pleased with where I'm at and the gentle poking of the boundaries.  I have had to push myself a little because otherwise I'd still be too scared to do anything but mushies and we HAVE to graduate to solids.  Especially with the band because if you don't eat solids, you are constantly stomach-growling hungry.  And that is annoying.

Ultimately, it is up to the individual as to when they try new things (and maybe even bad for you things).  None of us is perfect and hopefully when we do stray from the path, we at least learn something or see something beautiful in the process (it reminds me of this story of this guy who went to the park this weekend and got lost, but also took some incredibly gorgeous photos he otherwise might not have if he hadn't gotten lost!).

It's scary opening pandora's box, but sometimes you have to see what's in there and learn from the consequences of your actions.

And unless you're sitting on someone, force feeding them sweet treats Scott, the responsibility is not yours to feel guilty about.  It's not your choice--it's their choice, my choice and I will have to suffer the repercussions, learn from the experience or both.

Personally, when I see something like those strawberry thingies I wanna make, I don't think, "if he has success with these, so will I!"  I think, "Hmm, I wonder how these will work in my plan?  I'll give 'em a try and if I can control myself with them and I find 'em to be tasty, we'll add them to my plan.  If not, it was an experiment and I still got useful data out of it:  they're deliciously dangerous and don't make 'em again!"

I look at my whole WLS experience as an opportunity to learn.  Sometimes I'll make mistakes, but the most important lesson is to pick yourself, dust yourself off and keep on moving down the path.  There's a lot of trial and error involved.

I lived the first 38 odd years of my life as a perfectionist and to be honest, that sucked!  Once I started cutting myself some slack and realized it is okay to make mistakes, my quality of life became so much better.  I'm going to make mistakes and bad choices.  If I can learn from that and keep going, instead of giving up and freaking out and getting anxious, I'm a happy camper!

Just remember, Scott, you are a great role model and are very inspiring.  But in the end, what each person does on a day to day basis is of their own choosing.  It's okay to let us kiddies fall and scrape our knees.  We have to learn somehow.  Hopefully you and the rest of the "old timers," will be there with some band aids, if we need 'em!  Or a spanking for misbehaving!!!  

Hugs to you, oh wise one!!!!
Denise

"You know, everyone is different and so are their surgeons, dietitians and post operative plans."

I think that's the gist of what I was trying to say...everyone is different!  What's good for me, might not be good for you.  What's great for me at 17 months out, might not be the best choice for you at 2 months out.

Very well written and thought out response Denise!  That's what I love about this board, you can be honest as you need to be.

Thanks!

 You know you're a sweetheart, right?

Most days I have a hard time realizing I have even had WLS, Scott!  I have scars but am not 100% convinced WIlliams put anything in there!    And I  certainly don't feel like I'm a mere two months out.  It seems like I've been this way for ages.

It's great to have big brothers like you to help keep us from crashing into walls.  Sometimes, though, we still have to ding our bumpers a bit even with the best of the backseat drivers giving us advice!

Yesterday was a perfect dietary day for me.  No chips, no snacking, not even a protein bar!  I'm trying to come up with a plan to sort out my eating with minimal STARVING moments during the day plus my workouts at the gym.  And I'm trying to do it with minimal sliders (like yogurt or God forbid, junk food which I am good at avoiding), mainly regular texture food and minimal protein supplements.  I love protein (eggs, turkey, cheese, chicken), so I have no problems at all getting in my 70+g of protein with regular food.

I have to say that focusing on exercising is great for keeping me on the straight and narrow with food.  Who wants a flax-seed tortilla chip when I can feel the burn?!?  Today is upper body workout day--yippeeee!!!  I can't wait . . . sneaking over to the gym about 1:30 while our boss is at a meeting.  Heh heh.

Thanks for being so supportive and keeping an eye out for me!
HUGS!!!  
Denise

Yep, what Denise said! We're all adults, we know our own bodies, and if we can't figure out what works for us and what doesn't, then we really don't have our heads in the game. I love all of your ideas, Scott, and they have helped me tremendously, as well as many others who post. All experiences are different, and we should learn to just support and not preach.

Flattery is the best compliment you can get! 

If someone can learn from what I've gone through, then that is great. 

It's like the analogy I used when working with teens.  I can see the brick wall you are gonna run into, only because I've hit it a few times myself.  Guess what?  It's hurts, and I don't want you to get hurt!

You my friend are special!  I can't wait for the day when I finally get to meet ya!

Hi, Scott. I think you are too hard on yourself. A person's success or failure is really up to them. I think the problem is that some people just werent mentally ready for surgery. I haven't really seen this on the Tennessee board but on others definitely. People look for easier ways than sticking to their surgeon's plans and then look for food to eat without even checking to see how far out the person is who is sharing the recipe. People need to be responsible enough to check things out thoroughly before eating them. They need to pay attention to what stage people are when seeking advice or new foods. That is a personal responsibility. I read your sugar-free dessert recipes with interest and then file them away for future reference, but I know that I won't be trying those until much later in my journey. It is really up to each person to decide what is okay and when it is okay. When in doubt, I also check with my nut before adding things. I think you should keep sharing your ideas and recipes. They are really great for people who are farther out or are at goal. Us newbie can file them away for later.
Blessings,
Karen

I would like to share a story...  a friend of mine rents out half his house and has a roommate...  you get some real characters when you open your house up to strangers!  But, it seems that the Lord has really led some folks his way that had some real needs and they were ministered to while at his home.  Anyway... 

This last person turned out to be an alcoholic.  Once, he stayed out of work an entire week, was in his bedroom drinking, vomit left all over the bed, floor, wet vomit filled towels everywhere...  and my friend had to clean it up.  He wasn't sure what was going on, and was quite concerned.  His roommate disappeared for a week and no one knew where he was.  Come to find out, he knew he needed help and got into rehab.

He came back home, was doing great!  He gave his life to the Lord, was going to church, VERY involved in AA...  and then suddenly his job got so bad that he quit it.  And, once again, turned to drinking.  My friend confronted him and said, "You're drunk.  What are you doing?"  The roommate tried to make excuses but got the statement, "You said you could not handle just one drink.  You fell off the wagon and need help."

I cried when I heard this story. Not just because it was sad...  this young man does not see that he is destroying himself, hurting himself and ruining his chances for coming into his full potential in life.  He is bound by alcohol.  I cried BECAUSE it made me ask myself this question.  "Who are you accountable to, what keeps you on the wagon?"  Are there people in my life who, when they see me making bad choices, who can say "Melinda, you fell off the wagon! What are you doing to yourself?!"  We all NEED someone who can and will do that.  Do we like it?  WHY NO!

But, it's no secret.  We are all overweight for a reason.  The farther out I get from my surgery, the more issues I have with food, and the more I realize that I have a food addiction.  It's somethign I struggle with every single day.  I make a choice every single day whether or not I am going to stay on target or stray.  The only thing is, no one sees our eating.  We hide it.  We wait until the doors are closed, we're behind closed blinds, and then open up our fridges to see what lies inside.  

The point I am trying to make is this.  Yes, we do need to occasionally bring up the statement and remind folks of what stage of the journey they are in.  Folks who are just fresh out of surgery and have not met their weight loss goals don't need to be swapping one food for another (as in, swapping candy bars for protein bars, doritos for flaxseed chips, as an example).  They really DO need that time away from their addiction (food) in order to try to create those good habits.  They should'nt just move from one food to another, but need to cease those foods all together until they have met their goals.  Then, after the weight is gone, they can add those things slowly, learning moderation.  I mean, if we knew moderation, we would not have needed wls!  And a person who is right now fresh in the surgery stages should not have to learn moderation right now.  Save that for later AFTER the weight is lost.

I have been on support boards a long time now...  and seeing more folks who are saying "I'm gaining weight" and aren't even 4, 5, 6 months postop.  They lose 5, gain 3, lose 5, gain 2.  That kind of yo yo stuff is what I experience right now in maintenance....  I deal with the same 5 lbs weight/loss every month...  its not something that newbies should be experiencing.  Stalls, yes.  Plateaus, yes.  But not gain, lose patterns.

Scott, I am just unloading here my thoughts but I think we DO have a right to toss out the disclaimer.  How I eat is not the same as a newbie.  I have met my goals.  Let me say that differently.  I FAR exceeded my goals.  I am able to have things now, BUT I also struggle with foods and fight those demons while in the dark of my little abode, which most folks will never know about.  THIS IS THE GOOD, BAD AND UGLY, unfortunately.

"When in doubt, I also check with my nut before adding things."

Nice!  Always check with your Dr or Nut!  Cause I might be a nut, but I'm not a Nut! 

You are already a success!

 You're not to blame if people are eating things they shouldn't be, but I think it's good to point out to new patients like myself, that at the different stages people will be able to add things into their diet that others at earlier stages can't. I totally understand that, being that my mother had RNY in 2001. She can eat more calories than I can and many foods that I can't. If I try to eat the things that she can and should be eating, I'll slow my weight-loss and eventually stop it all together. We all are responsible for our own health, if we've went through the surgery and haven't taken it serious enough to educate ourselves and ask questions, then we only have ourselves to blame when we fail. The surgeons, nurses, dieticians and support group leaders that help us, do exactly that, they help us on our journey, they point us in the right direction, they point out to us when we are going astray, but it's up to us to do what we need to and what we've been taught and if we don't take it serious enough to do what we need to, then it's our own fault. We know when we've fallen off the wagon or need help, it's up to us to ask for help if we need it. We may get lucky and a friend or support group member may notice and help us out without asking, but we need to learn to ask for help.It may seem embarrassing to admit that we need help, but not as embarrassing as failing with our weight-loss and having the scale head in the wrong direction. We're all human and have had issues with food, we're gonna have issues again here and there, just don't let one bad day with food, turn into more than that.

This is one of the reasons that I think support groups are great and very important. As much as we no longer want to let food rule our life, we still need to talk about food. What we can and should be eating, what we can add back into our diets and when, what we're eating that maybe we shouldn't be. It's where we get support, help, encouragement and even help up when we've fallen of the wagon. No ones there to judge you and believe me, no one could judge you any harsher than we judge ourselves anyways. So if you're not attending a support group, please consider it, it may help you, or you may be able to help someone else, but they're very important for our success along with the surgery, dietary changes and exercise, they're all just tools in our weight-loss goals, without any one of them, we may fail at it.

Thanks Scott for pointing this out, you're an inspiration to us all, and some of us probably forget where others are in their journey, but none of us want to feel like we contributed to someone else failing. Bottom line is we all responsible for ourselves and need to think about what we're eating, if it's appropriate for us at where we are and take care of ourselves with the knowledge we've acquired from our doctors and dieticians.

Now for the questions you posted. From my program at Vanderbilt, once you're past your 3 months you are definitely safe to start adding back things, but that is their program, and it's as you're ready for new things. There are things they'll get on you about, such as, peanut butter, crackers and such, you know, high calorie and empty calorie foods. When you're only getting 600-900 calories a day in, these can quickly add up. And then also, the program at Vanderbilt wants us to try to get our protein from real food once we can, and not rely on protein shakes, other than we we have to, such as traveling and such. But we all know the routine, protein first, then complex carbs, from fruits and vegetables and so on. And most definitely it will be much different choices for people in the weight-loss phase and the maintenance phase. Now with that being said, there are cravings that we may satisfy every now and then, but in moderation and not often. We all just have to remember where we are and think about what appropriate for us with our surgery and the program we're in.