Calories at Odds with Exercise

Hi, Everyone!

I'm new to posting but I'm familiar with the Boards, coming to it periodically to glean information from real bariatric patients.

Background: I had RNY 10 years ago in February. I was at 306 at my highest. I lost 30 pounds before surgery and 40 pounds after. My lowest was 236. It's a REALLY long story, and one that is emotionally exhausting to share, but the short version is that while I've never reached my goal weight, I've had lots of giving up and starting over in the last 10 years, trying to figure out what works for my body. Thankfully, I've never gone back to my highest weight. I got back up to 285. I'm at 259 as of today and have lost almost 30 pounds since July through REALLY intense exercise with a trainer.

When I started in July, I had to do things differently. Scales make me OCD and they play with my head and my emotions. I didn't weigh myself or measure for months. I have just tried to focus on putting one foot in front of the other, changing my life and living my life. My signature is my own quote, and it sums up what has gotten me to where I am. I just started weighing recently, and I have almost reached the 30 pound mark.

All that said, here's my dilemma. I was eating low carb, and I was eating well, but I really didn't think the calories mattered since I was eating such low carb. I know different now. But about a month ago, I made some assessments of my progress. It seemed to me that 22 pounds in 5 months was dreadfully slow, and for all the efforts I was making with my exercise, I didn't feel like I was getting what I was "paying" for.

I assessed my food and on January 9th made some changes and decided to check to see where I was in two weeks. The first change I made was to alleviate my Quest protein bars. I realized they are twice the calories of my protein drinks and with even a few less protein grams. I saw immediate results. That was a drop of about 200 calories a day. Suddenly my skirts were getting bigger! I wasn't going to weigh, but my baggy clothes made me curious. Thursday is still 2 days away, and I have lost 4 pounds in 2 weeks from that one change. I went from 263.3 to 259.8.

I am cautious because I'm not trying to lose quickly. I just want to lose at a sensible and sane rate. Losing 4 pounds a week would be too much (I think), but I also feel like an average of 5 pounds a month is less than desirable. I decided if I lost too much in two weeks, I would increase my calories. I am keeping my calories between 1000 to 1100 calories a day, and it appears I'm losing about 2 pounds/week at that level. GREAT! But now my workouts are almost impossible to complete!! :( I had gotten up to over 400 steps on the Jacob's Ladder, pushing a 125 sled for 12 laps, using 25 pound weights, pushups, etc., and now I am SO, SO tired.

I can only surmise that my calorie level isn't giving me enough energy to continue the workouts I had been doing. I'm losing great at 1000-1100 calories! But how do I adjust my workouts so that I continue losing and continue building muscle?? I feel like if I start doing less, I'm slacking off. But I just don't have the energy to do everything I was doing before. And the change in my energy level makes me feel emotional in the middle of my exercise . . . I find myself want to cry because I want to keep going but can't. Before this, I had great energy and was super motivated, but my loss was slower than average.

So that's what I mean when I say my calorie level is at odds with my exercise. :( If there's one thing I've learned since having surgery is that everyone's body is different, and we all have to accept the reality of what our own body responds to - not what everyone says it should respond to.

Diet is 95% responsible for weight loss. Exercise can contribute.

Many people try to do as you - and they are finding out that the need more carbs when they exercise. Not only they get hungry, but also lack the energy.

In my 10+ years post op - when I want to lose weight, I need to really get dedicated to diet - as restrict calories and carbs. I can add very light exercise, like walking, hiking, dancing, etc. Every time I committed to working out very hard to build muscles - I gained weight. Every time. Very strenuous exercise cause steroids release and that makes me very hungry, and increase my insulin resistance. And when I try to limit carbs as I exercise - I often dealt with very low blood sugars. That I had to correct by eating more carbs and proteins.

I know there are bunch of programs for people on keto style diet, who are also trying to build muscles. From what I understand, they burn fat, they are fat addapted, but their exercise is rather slow, intense, but not aerobics. Toning, weight lifting, etc.

Btw: my body always reacted to Quest protein bars as if all the fiber was like sugar to my body. Some people can have specific bacteria in their gut that can convert the "fiber" into sugars and absorb almost as if they are easily digestible carbs. Some people only have that bacteria in the colon, but some people are "lucky", and gave the same bacteria all vet their digestive track.

Many years ago a friend told me that most protein bars are glorified candy bars. It took me app 2 years to verify that for myself, by measuring my BS a few times after eating some bars. I measured my BS in app 2 hour window after finishing the bar first thing am.

Awesome! Thanks so much for sharing your experience! I actually haven't been gaining weight from working out to build muscle, but I expected to, because that was my experience in the year or so after surgery. I'm not sure what I'm doing since July that makes that no longer true, except that my calories -- up until January 9th -- have been slightly lower than maintenance. My loss averaged out to about 4 pounds/month but my calories weren't low enough to lose 8-10 pounds/month.

In the last 6 months, I've pushed myself farther physically than I thought possible. I've constantly challenged myself on a weekly basis -- changing something, increasing a weight or reps. At one point I was bench pressing 80 pounds. It's been far from static. Though the loss has been slow, it's definitely loss, and it's not been affected by strength training.

The protein bars have only been a part of my diet since July. You know how you kind of choose the lesser of two evils? My rationale was that while the protein bars weren't the best, it was better than raiding the candy jar I'm confronted with every time I frequented certain offices in my building at work! If I ate candy at the rate that I ate the protein bars, I definitely wouldn't have lost the 22 pounds I did! Thankfully, they didn't prohibit my weight loss, but they definitely slowed it. Now I've found a better option in my protein drinks. It's not whole food, but it's better. Baby steps. Giving myself grace. Not perfect, but progress!

While I live a very happy life, I live a very intense life! Both my hubby and I work full-time jobs in educational administration at two different colleges. But, he is a Dean of Men, so his job is 24x7. His phone can ring at any time of the day or night, and many nights he has to go back to the campus for various things. We have two teenagers, the eldest of whom is graduating high school and will be going off to college 3,000 miles away 7 months from now; my son has had 2 surgeries in the last year; I'm getting home at nearly 7 pm after stopping at the gym to work out; building a repertoire of healthy recipes and learning to adapt them so we're all happy; coming home to cook . . .

As our kids fly the nest, I'm sure I'll find myself with the time to do the BEST thing -- make whole food protein snacks -- but for now, I'm doing the best I can with the time I have. Hey, I'm making progress, so I'm apparently headed in the right direction (down another 1.3 pounds this morning since my original post)!

I agree with Hala. Don't worry so much about the exercise part--as you've discovered, it's what you actually eat that matters the most. I also wouldn't worry about losing weight "too fast". Losing weight fast is basically the point of bariatric surgery and most people lose 100 lbs in 6 months which is an astonishing rate and one that's very difficult to reproduce once that initial honeymoon period is over.

If you're concerned about preserving muscle mass, keep your protein high, but be mindful of keeping your overall calories in a deficit. A super quick and dirty way to figure out your daily caloric needs is to multiply your bodyweight by 10 (12 for men). This gives you a ballpark of your BMR--how many calories you need to basically exist. As long as you're under that, you're good. It takes roughly a 3500 calorie deficit to lose 1lb a week. Right now you weigh around 260 lbs, so you need roughly 2600 calories a day just to maintain that. You say you're taking in 1100 a day tops--that's a DAILY deficit of 1500 calories. No wonder you're losing 4lbs a week. (1500 x 7 /3500 = 3) :D As you lose weight, that maintenance number will drop, but unless you top out at 110 lbs, you'll be fine with that level of intake--the weight will just come off slower as you get closer to your maintenance calories.

So yes, working out at that extreme of a deficit will be difficult and not recommended. I think you're at a point right now where you can focus on shedding the extra weight and when you're maybe down to losing a pound a week (a deficit of around 500 calories), look into starting up with your trainer again. That's not to say to sit on the couch the whole time! Get out, walk around, bike, hike--whatever you enjoy--but leave the really hard, intense workouts alone for now. As you've already found out, it might make you feel weak and frustrated and make you eat more.

Good luck in your journey and let us know how you get on!

Jen

I also wouldn't worry about losing weight "too fast". Losing weight fast is basically the point of bariatric surgery and most people lose 100 lbs in 6 months which is an astonishing rate and one that's very difficult to reproduce once that initial honeymoon period is over. I knew that there's a honeymoon period immediately following surgery, but like you said, it's hard to reproduce that, so I guess I never expected to lose even this quickly again! So the quick drop kind of worried me . . . people always say that losing weight that fast means you're losing muscle. The scale said this morning I'm even down another 1.3 lbs since my original post! Thanks for reassuring me it's okay to be losing at that rate!

If you're concerned about preserving muscle mass, keep your protein high, but be mindful of keeping your overall calories in a deficit. Excellent counsel!

I think you're at a point right now where you can focus on shedding the extra weight and when you're maybe down to losing a pound a week (a deficit of around 500 calories), look into starting up with your trainer again. I don't work one-on-one with my trainer right now -- he owns his own Wellness Center, and right now I pay for a monthly membership, and he creates my workout cards, changing things up every 3 months. I typically work within it and increase my reps or my weights to continue to challenge myself, but I think you're absolutely right -- he set up that workout at my previous calorie level. Now I need to tweak it to do what I can do, and not beat myself up because I physically feel too weak to follow the original plan.

Thanks for your encouragement and advice, Jen!
Sheryl

Hi there.

It looks like you committed to this dietary change two weeks ago? I think the culprit here is just that your body is still adapting to the calorie restriction. Try decreasing your exercise a little bit to allow your body to adjust to its new caloric intake and then slowly increasing exercise back to the point where you want it to be. Your body will get on board, you just need to be kind to it and give it time to get with this new program.

You might also consider changing out your shake(s?) for dense, solid protein as that will give you more sustained energy than what comes from a shake.

As for scale avoidance - I tend to obsess about numbers and the thing that has helped me is using TrendWeight (link in my signature). It syncs with FitBit, the Aria scale, and the Withings/Nokia scale. For me, this lets me weigh myself daily without the compulsion to get drawn into focusing on the specific number I see, and instead it lets me focus on the trend of my weight. It's been really beneficial.

You can maintain muscle at a caloric deficit. You can even gain muscle at a deficit. It's just harder and takes more awareness and effort. Give your body time to adapt to the new level of calories you're providing it - it'll get on board :)

Gwen:

I think the culprit here is just that your body is still adapting to the calorie restriction. Try decreasing your exercise a little bit to allow your body to adjust to its new caloric intake and then slowly increasing exercise back to the point where you want it to be. Your body will get on board, you just need to be kind to it and give it time to get with this new program. THANK YOU for that!! Follows so similarly and beautifully with what Jen said. Baby steps. Stay calm . . . listen to my body . . . tell myself it's okay to back off a little.

You might also consider changing out your shake(s?) for dense, solid protein as that will give you more sustained energy than what comes from a shake. I am using the shakes at work as part of my snacks to get my liquids in/increase protein at the same time. You're right -- on workout days, I used to eat a protein bar at about 4:00 before I leave work at 5. I get to the gym about 5:15, change, and start working out about 5:30. While my schedule won't allow me to make whole food protein snacks for every snack for every day, I'm more than certain I can manage to make 3 of them for the 3 days I workout.

As for scale avoidance - I tend to obsess about numbers I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one!!!

The thing that has helped me is using TrendWeight (link in my signature). It syncs with FitBit, the Aria scale, and the Withings/Nokia scale. For me, this lets me weigh myself daily without the compulsion to get drawn into focusing on the specific number I see, and instead it lets me focus on the trend of my weight. Interesting! I'll have to look that up! MyFitnessPal has a weight report on a chart that does that, too!

Thanks again!
Sheryl

I lost 61lbs of regain last year by going low carb (20-30g carbs per day) and around 1200 calories per day. Losing weight fast is not a problem - after the first week or two it WILL slow down and at your weight, there is nothing wrong with losing 2lbs per week.

Exercise is for health, not weight loss - and that calorie deficit should never be added in.

Not sure why you are drinking protein shakes or eating protein bars. Real, lean, simple proteins are what you should be eating at 10 years out. You can definitely eat enough to not rely on them at 10 years and they may be one of the reasons you never reached anywhere near your goal weight - they're excess calories you don't need!

I do believe in a small appropriate pre-workout meal (75 to 100 calories, eg yogurt or cottage cheese with nuts - and only if I'm working out hard and in the morning). If I workout later in the day - I rely on my normal calories/grams.... I don't bonk with that. I workout 2 to 2.5 hours hard 4 days a week and about an hour the other 3 days. On a hard day I'll hit Jacobs later for 1500 to 1800; then either do a full training session or take a boxing and bootcamp class. I'm likely burning 800+ calories during those sessions and never bonk. I also suspect you are too early the adjustment and are feeling those effects or have you considered your fluid levels consumed? I drink a minimum of 64 oz during my hard sessions and at least 32 ounces during my shorter sessions. If I ate my workout calories - I'd be eating way too much. I include my small snack in with my normal day plan - I don't add calories, just adjust the day slightly.

On a hard day I'll hit Jacobs later for 1500 to 1800; then either do a full training session or take a boxing and bootcamp class. WHOA!!! Hitting 400 steps on Jacob's Ladder has been a triumph for me! I remember when 50 was hard! I couldn't imagine getting to 1500 or 1800!

I'm likely burning 800+ calories during those sessions and never bonk. At the fitness level you're describing, I assume you're at maintenance, so how many calories/day do you take in and able to still finish your workouts successfully?? I do eat before my workouts, but it hasn't seemed to help much yet . . . so I think you're right -- I'm too early in the adjustment. I didn't even consider that my body might actually adapt later!

have you considered your fluid levels consumed? I'm so bad about drinking enough . . . that's one of the reasons I started drinking protein drinks; if it's flavored, I'm more likely to drink it, thus staying hydrated! I do alternate with lemon water, too, so I'm not drinking more than 1 protein drink a day.

Thanks so much, ScaleSkater!
Sheryl