PSA - The internet, public forums, and you!

Rocky, you are so right!  thanks for your insight and for sticking around long enough to be able to help people like me.  I struggle, and I really do look to you guys when I'm having a hard time.  

I learned some valuable lessons here from some people that I really didn't like.

Amen. This is my view-- before I started actively posting I formed opinions about folks-- as I progressed and kept reading - I think I learned the most from the ones my opinions were shaky on. 

Learning to separate the meat from the bones is key on any forum. 

To be clear: Milder does not mean better.  Just as there are some who are more sensitive, there are some that are more naturally aggressive.  That is not to say that everyone should have to do everything they can to keep themselves from offending someone but I have read several threads on here where people are honestly asking for help or support and what they receive instead is an enormous amount of "I do better than you so shut up and do what I do."  There is a time for modeling just as there is a time for compassion.  The reason many of us are here on this forum is because it is much easier and much more convenient to get help and advice than from a local support group--the internet is up 24/7 unlike the good people you may (or may not) seek help from.  It creates a diversity of opinion and perspective that helps, but which I have seen many people be shamed for.  I am not saying that this should be a safe place but many people come in her expecting that it will be and because of the diversity in culture, geography, experience, and placement in the programs ALL users need to take what they say and what they hear with a grain of salt.  Not any one of us is wholly right or wrong.

I believe you may have seen some posts that were a bit harsher than normal.  The reason they were is because the OP has posted similar issues, over and over again.  When someone posts something similar, and received solid advice but ignored it, or got defensive in earlier posts, then it's hard to hold hands and be nice.  You can walk into a room and assume you know what's going on, but if you're not around for the hours leading up to your arrival, you have no idea why the atmosphere is what it is.

We can all be sensitive to others feelings, but there comes a time when it's time to cut the bull**** and I personally refuse to coddle someone who has shown no interest in taking solicited advice.  

There is a lot to be said about that particular situation, no doubt.  I've been reading the forums the last ten months and you can see where some alliances, etc. have formed and not everyone is going to be friends/mesh/etc.   That is not what the issue is.  The issue is that many "vets" assume that there is a them v. someone else [which is HILARIOUS because most of the vets constantly talk about the individual nature of each person's journey].  There are absolutely, 100% and unequivocal truths that are going to apply to each RNY person, but not everyone posting in RNY has had RNY and that really makes it difficult for those struggling and trying to mete out issues that are not only unique to RNY but also their individual situations.  Not even every surgeon has the same idea of what a pureed diet looks like, so at two weeks out there are several of us who are already diverging on that path--which is what brings many people here.  The fact that you and many others are admitting to groups being formed along any lines--that there is a right and a wrong, ignorant and knowing, serious and the willfully stupid--says everything about the situation.  It perfectly juxtaposes why some have been made to feel to be in the out-group: the fact that it can be described that way is enigmatic and illustriative of why people are being made to feel less than.  Not everyone is well-spoken or clear--some people struggle to find the words (and, often, the punctuation) to communicate their respective issues. 

Everyone here defending their right to be as brusque, cold, to-the-point, impatient, and rightfully experienced while not respecting that difference of opinion that apparently entitles you to such remarks sits in the righteous indignation only a true hypocrite can enjoy.  To expect others to tolerate having their opinions or views excluded while championing your own is the definition of suffocation, not discourse.  Once any community, including this one, becomes so close as it feels it has the right to place the badges and incidents of past behavior without explanation, it becomes closed.  But in real life, this is a class that remains subject to open, to change, to constant infusion because new people are being added to it every day.  In order for this group, like any group, to remain vital, relevant, and healthy it cannot remain so close as to expect that others will be made to adjust and obey rules and regulations they should not be held against when the newcomers, themselves, were not the instigators of the hang-ups of the past.  In real life, we call that a hostile work environment--an actionable offense.  Again, the fact that is better now does not make it right and it is absolutely NO justification. 

I am not passing judgment because, as you say, I have not been in here day in and day out, much less year after year but, as this thread proves: God forbid anyone feel differently or offended than the "established" because all of "you" are now offended that someone else has had something else to say.  Again, it's not each individual's job here to care and coddle each person or to bite his or her tongue knowing that the 80% of communication that cannot be seen when words are transmitted over the internet.  However, there are some people on here who clearly depend on their imagined, relative position of this group.  Just the same, there are people here who truly are trying to get help or who are truly trying to provide help.  Not everyone here is going to be in a good mood with each post the same way that not everyone is having success when they are drawn here.  It is not your responsibility or your charge to be patient, kind, or caring.  However, I find it absolutely mind boggling that many on this board explicitly and implicitly demand respect because of their length of time on here or their past experience with others without showing the same care and consideration.  Call it what you want--short shrift, gruff, abrupt--but I have seen several people absolutely shocked and appalled over the last 10 months to be met comment-for-comment with increasing hostility.  Every conversation is going to devolve--sometimes into humor, sometimes into sadness, sometimes into anger; that's the generative nature of language, discourse, and culture.  However, there are those on this forum who pride themselves in being as short and to the point about how their opinions are so far above any novelty that it is inconceivable by them that anything else should be out there.

In short, really, it comes down to mutual respect.  If someone is out there asking the same thing over and over again, you're absolutely under no obligation to keep telling them the same thing again and again--let them get it out (maybe it's all emotional and they just don't have anyone else to hear them).  It's not your job to keep trying to make them feel worse about themselves or to keep correcting them.  Eventually they will tire themselves out, their posts will get buried, or they will be removed.  The fact that you can't see what some of these people are saying proves everything they are saying.  Hide all you want about the nature of the internet, etc. but, as it has been said, we all got fat because we were the best at making excuses.  I look at my father (also an RNYer) who is gaining back because of his excuses, and I look at his increasingly aggressive behavior online and on the internet because he never feels well--stemming from his poor habits and excuses) and I see the same thing here.  We all have our addictions--don't make yours establishing  hierarchy that doesn't matter.

So, in short, you think people should be nicer.

You know what I think would be nice? If people stopped trying to tell other people HOW to be nice, WHEN to be nice, and WHO to be nice too. And even exactly what NICE means.

I find you extremely bossy. I can live with that, and I would never dream of telling you to stop bossing others around. But holy crap, you are an extremely wordy thing, aren't you? If I were to suggest your path to self improvement, I would encourage you to become a model of clarity and concision.

First off, nobody is "establishing  hierarchy".  I would rather take advice from someone who has years of experience than someone that is newly post-op.  I have been here day in and day out for nine years.  Three of those years I was lurking and trying to figure out how to get out from under a VERY bad VBG surgery that I had in 1986.  Then I officially joined after I had my revision.  OH is my ONLY support system and I'm here reading EVERY DAY!  

The vets on this site are who I credit with keeping me healthy.  I would have trusted my doctor blindly.  I would have not known to keep a spreadsheet on my labs to watch trends.  My doctor told me my labs "were just fine" when my ferritin was at 13 and dropping. The vets sounded the alarm.  I ended up insisting on a referral to a Hematologist and was in for infusions that same week.

My nutritionist told me to "eat until I felt full" and that mashed potatoes and oatmeal were fine.  I have a food addiction.  I don't stop when I "feel full".  I always have head hunger and want to eat every hour on the hour.  The vets told me that I needed to measure my food and STOP EATING.  They gave me a list of foods I should be eating and those I should avoid.  I would have never reached goal with out that advice or maintained my loss for almost 6 years.  I still measure every bite.  I have seen MANY WLS peeps come back three years after surgery complaining of significant re-gain.  They "blazed their own trail" where eating is concerned.  Many of these folks screamed "meanie" when a vet tried to help them get on the wagon".  It hurts me to see this happen. 

A vet told me that "hunger is not an emergency" and that mantra has saved me every single day.  I repeat it every time I feel the urge to graze. I repeat it often in my posts to newbies because it's been a lifesaver for me.

I could list hundreds of examples.  A newbie does not have the experience or the insight to give a lot of advice.  They can share their experiences and learn from each other.  The vets who have lost hundreds of pounds and kept it off have the inside scoop on what works. They also have the inside scoop on many complications (reactive hypoglycemia, bowel obstructions, vitamin deficiency symptoms, etc).  Discounting their experience because you don't like their delivery is foolhardy.

The truth is, everyone's body functions the same way.  We all burn calories.  Some of us burn slower than others, but he basic function is the same.  If you eat simple carbs, you won't lose. We are all given the same basic rules of WLS.  Some of the meal plans may vary, but the RULES are the same.  If a newbie is eating birthday cake and donuts at three weeks out, and a vet is worried for their success, how would you have them react?  I took my second chance at life very seriously.  It pains me to watch people not take this life saving surgery seriously too.  

If my delivery is too abrupt... too bad.  I am here every day to pay it forward.  I don't appreciate being told how I should behave.  I know first hand the pain of WLS failure.  I would much rather try to get through to someone to help them succeed than pat their hand and give them a pass so their feelings are not hurt.

Hunger is not an emergency has been so important to me as well.

I repeat it often.