Interesting read taken from a lightweight board post

Someone posted this on the lightweight board and since it's about the pouch rules I thought it would be great to post here to read discussions about it. I think it's a great topic and would love to hear people's thoughts, esp. vets.

http://www.amylhwilliams.com/pouchrulesfordummies.html

Other than the water loading, the extended lack of liquids afterwards (I do 30-60 minutes) and the cottage cheese test, it's pretty much what I have done for the last 9 years ... 

I definitely think it's worth reading if people are rule followers (which I am).   There are always people who are exceptions, break lots of rules and are successful but most of us need structure to be long term successes.

I know quite a few people from here that are 8++ years out from RNY and DS and have never reached goal or had significant regain.   From my experience, I think the successful vets (5+ years) we have on here are probably the exception and not the rule to be honest.   

ETA:  Thanks for posting it!

I kind of giggled at the cottage cheese thing myself and thought at least we know where that test came from that is posted about!

reserving other thoughts I want to hear more from our readers and see their thoughts before I reread it with those in mind and comment.

I don't know the origin of the cottage cheese "test" but it just amazes me that people don't realize that, as a slider food, cottage cheese is only a step above yogurt in the battle for LEAST appropriate food to try to do a pouch size "test" with.  

It also amazes me that people ignore the fact that the pouch is supposed to get larger down the road (we would have a hard time surviving if we could only eat 2 ounces of food at a time for the rest of our lives!) and that they really think it matters whether their pouch can hold 6 ounces or 8 ounces or 5.5 ounces at a particular point in time.  If they exercise portion control, it doesn't matter if the pouch is two ounces bigger than it used to be!

Lora

Very interesting!!! It is now bookmarked! Thank you!

I strongly disagree with the statement that

"Trying to practice the "rules of the pouch" before six to 12 months is a waste. Learning how to delay hunger if the patient is never hungry just doesn't work. The real work of learning the "rules of the pouch" begins after healing has caused hunger to return."

That makes no sense at all!  Why waste 6-12 months of learning time for the various rules?!  Also, that statement makes it sound like hunger doesn't return until sometimes between 6 and 12 months out, which is NOT what very many people experience.  The only people I know who didn't have their hunger back by 6 months never got it back.  Also, what about those of us who never got our hunger back?  What if we NEVER learned to follow the rules?  Regain, of course.  

Lora

Well, I am no vet with only 4 1/2 months under my belt but I am down 73 lbs and I have never been this successful with weight loss before.  I am only 7 lbs from my goal.  I may revise the goal but at least I am pretty sure I will reach this first goal before 6 months.  

I actually liked the rules of the pouch and I am very intrigued by the water loading as I think it will help me in the future.  I am a natural born water drinker though and would have no problem with it.  I am going to bring all of this up with my Dr and Dietician at my 6 month appointment.

Thank you for reposting this.  I, too, am interested in reading the vets and others thoughts.  

I started to read it but the title is so offensive to me I could not continue, how any books or articles for dummies ever get published I do not understand, and for me what I read does not apply, I do not get hungry and I cannot eat a lot at each meal and I don't like feeling full so I never eat to that feeling.  I have always drank a lot of water, it does not make me feel full but it does give my mouth something to do.  I drink with meals as I need to because it makes no sense to me to eat bone dry chicken like I had today.  I stopped eating when the 4 ounces were gone.  I skip all meals during the day and just drin****d tea diluted down to plain water in the end.  My eating is unique to me, but I am highly successful and extremely motivated to maintain until I stop caring.  I stated in another post today that when I was getting dressed today I put on my after tt goal dress I bought in 2006.  It is nothing special but the fact it is still loose after all these years is pretty thrilling.  I set out to change my life and improve my health and I have.

I follow much of the recommendations listed as it fits for me. I'm a firm believer in eating protein first, meals shouldn't last more than 20 minutes and not drinking with meals or at least 30 minutes or more after.

I disagree with eating till full and stretching the pouch which causes a full sensation for some period of time. IMO eating to "full" especially early out will probably set up struggles long term as the pouch matures and then one will want to get that "Full" feeling and consume more food than necessary at one setting. Not sure I've explained myself well.

I agree. If people rely on feeling full to stop eating, what will happen when they eat slider foods or foods with a higher moisture conte is that they will overeat waiting to feel full.  Once they are 18 months or so out, and have a larger food capacity (and mig not always be making optimum food choices all of the time), the "just because you CAN eat xxx amount, doesnt mean you SHOULD" comes into play.

Relying on measured portions (whether actually measured or, down the road, "eyeballed") along with a full sensation is a far better approach IMO for long-term success.

Lora