Ok so riddle me this

 If you see that in me now, can you imagine how bad I was then?  I admit I still have issues, but it is nowhere near as bad as it was then.

I wouldn't even send my food back in a restaurant.  I'd make my hubby do it because I didn't want to call attention to the uber fat chick and her food.

Now, I'll send it back a few times if they don't get it right, and I order it to specifics.  I'm not afraid to substitute.

Put me in a room with strangers - I'm all over it.  Put me in a room with people (not close friends or family) that knew me "then" - super self conscious.  They still "see" me as the fat chick.  How can I be this cool new thin personna that has become the real me if they won't see me that way?  Yup.  Issues.

SO the INCREASED confidence is there, but there's still that other chick in there that comes out in certain situations.

I missed both threads, so I can only reply in this context.

I think part of it is cultural. Have you noticed that in America we like people to have some swagger, but not too much? Remember when Martha Stewart went to prison and people delighted in her downfall?

I blame it all on our Puritan beginnings. We seem to value false modesty over honest assessment. It's perfectly acceptable for us to emphasize our faults, but if we present our positives, we are bragging.

How many times have we seen a starlet with a gorgeous face and figure who obviously works very hard at being beautiful only to hear her say that her beauty routine consists of sunscreen and water?

 Now that's an interesting perspective.

I sometimes wonder if my self-centeredness is a blessing or a curse. I will admit I do lots of good things for people every day. And I do so partly because I feel I'm called to. But I also do so because it makes me feel good. That's totally selfish. And so is the way I outwardly proclaim myself. It's not that I totally don't care how my expression of self makes others feel. I just don't give that as much weight as how *I* feel about it. That and the fact that being "bad' confident (gaining confidence by putting others down) doesn't make me feel good. Simply stating what I know and believe to be true about me with no implications on how it relates to others? That to me feels more natural.

I consider the "feel good" part of tzedakah not to be a selfish motivator, but instead a natural consequence of the action.

"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction."
- Newton's third law of action

It doesn't seem logical, if you break it down semantically, that giving away our posessions or money or time to someone else would bring us happiness. After all, these are things we, as humans, covet. But everything has an equal and opposite reaction. Give something out, get something back, whether it's material or emotional. There's no fighting it, so you might as well accept and enjoy it and not think of it as selfishness.

It's just physics, and you can't fight physics. ;P

Just to answer the question - I think folks are self depreciating because that is what society deems is acceptable.  I think most folks are taught not to 'brag' about themselves from an early age.  If all someone does is brag about themselves I usually feel they are arrogant or have low self-esteem.  I didn't see the other posts but if the post was asking us to state a positive, I would have (PS, I have great teeth, a good sense of humor, and I am strong).  I don't think it is just spiritual people that think it is 'not good' to proclaim yourself....I'm an athiest and I think most of the time it comes off as arrogant, again, just because society dictates it.

My physical appearance has always been my achilles heel when it comes to any ego at all. For most of my young life I was "The smart one" while my brother and sister were beautiful to look at, the word always was "Well at least she's smart." I was always called short, fat, and ugly. Even by my parents. Sadly to me, I look back on the ONE photograph taken of me by my parents (actually my grandfather took the photo and sent it to my mom, they never took pictures of me as a child.... since I was the "smart" one aka the ugly one) and when I look at the photograph that my grandfather snapped, I see a very slender child, with a horrible hair cut, abysmal glasses, and hand-me-down clothing from the 1930s. My brother and sister got new clothing, but my sister couldn't stand to allow her younger sister wear her hand-me-downs so I usually got clothing from my grandmother from the multitude of boxes in her hoarder/packrat house. HER hand-me-downs from when she was a child. I might have been short and ugly is subjective, but I wasn't FAT. I had a genetically large butt, but I actually see a little mouse of a child trying to minimize her obnoxious ugly presence when in truth most of the epithets I was forced to live with as true were likely just not true.

Now I look in the mirror and I look to see if perhaps there might be something redeeming about my face. What is beauty? Can I claim any of it? I tend to think that personal beauty if visited upon most humans, and only the truly unlucky are given a face/features that make them appear less fortunate. But I can't quite picture whether I own any personal beauty for myself.

When going from standards of beauty to personal worth my opinion of self takes a radical change. I KNOW I'm good at what I do. I know, in fact, that I'm perhaps one of the BEST. My students (based on standardized testing) have a pass rate that is 20% points higher than other teachers in my district, and 40 to 45% points better than the pass rate for all sophomores in the state taking the same test the first time. Based only on the standardized testing I'm pretty damn good at what I do. I also know it. I accept it. I even proclaim it from time to time in the appropriate venues.

The administration figured out early on that I was doing just fine on my own and I've been pretty much left to get on with it without any interference. Most kids figure out that I'm pretty cool so long as they don't fight me over a few simple logical rules (don't disrupt the teaching, my only rule), and once they stop fighting me, they enjoy the class and learn from it. So I know I'm great at what I do.

So beauty? Beyond me to say. (or even to believe if someone else says it). Ability? I'm awesome. I know it. Administration knows it. Students know it. Coworkers know it (jealousy abounds).

Well - having seen pics of you on some of your posts....you have very symetrical features (cheek bones, eyes) and very clear skin so asthetically (all perceptions aside) you have beautiful aspects whether you beleive it or not.

Thank you I appreciate that. I don't wear makeup and my skin is clear and blemish free (most of the time). I've never noticed much BAD about my features, just nothing GOOD either. But symmetry and appropriately sized features are important, and for the most part I have a face that to me doesn't stand out as ugly or pretty or anything much but just a face. I did some modeling one summer and felt pretty that summer. For the camera I wore a lot of makeup, and would come home and my parents would tell me how ugly I was.

Last summer I spent a lot of time in reflection about my growing up. Not so much now, but then I was going through a lot, but even though it's not occupying my mind a lot this year, I'm still "discovering" things about my growing up years that I realize now had a big impact on the person I became (and I like myself a lot, so this is ultimately not something I consider with regret, but more about self-knowlege than regret). I realize things about my growing up that shaped the person I was. Realizing how under-valued I felt by my family has helped me to evaluate my self-perception and work towards rejecting the imposed self-value given to me by my parents. I'm 43, and you'd think I would have got there sooner, but It's been a process. I think it's also been an essential thing to do, as I've felt under-valued a bit in my job, and the feelings of low-self-worth which don't normally attack me as I'm usually pretty full of myself, have forced me to examine what goes on in my mind.

Ultimately I realize that I do NOT have to accept a value placed on me by others as being truth, and that the only value of self that matters is one that is generated from within. I'm working on that! 

Don't think I can ever be considered to be self depracating    - I am a strong, intelligent gorgeous woman and I KNOW it!   I have spent many years working on my head and really believe it has helped me be successful on many aspects of my life - even the more challenging ones.

 I love and respect myself and the people I have in my life.    I am a loving and supportive mother, girlfriend, daughter and sister and I expect nothing less from the people in my life - I truly believe that you teach people how to treat you and until you love and respect yourself, you cannot expect other people to truly love and respect you!  These head issues are well worth working on before, during and after WLS.

I haven't always been this strong - indeed, I have had two abusive marriages - but I KNOW that I am in a different place these days ...   

Therapy is the shiznay to get you started on this head stuff!

 Kim. I love you. Seriously. Just for saying that I love you. 

You are awesome!