OT- frustrated and just venting about food choices

I have indeed considered sticking to my current vegetarian lifestyle.  I have made some changes that I feel better about, like purchasing free range eggs and milk from a local farmer where I know the animals are treated well.  I have cut down on the amount of dairy I consume because I seldome buy dairy products from the store.   And I am getting the protein I need for good health on this diet. 

But my current lifestyle does really answer all the ethical questions I have.  I'm not sure all my current choices are really in line with my values and beliefs.  I'm having trouble reconciling that.

I'm sure that those moral and ethical questions are very complex and confusing. I wish there was a simple answer to your dilemma, but in the end, you need to do what is best for your health and happiness.

Jim

I mean this with all due respect but why do you want to go vegan?  Is it for health?  Or because of not wanting to hurt animals?  I am just asking because I am curious if it makes a noticeable difference in the way you feel or the quality of your life?  For me, I guess I am selfish or have no real strong convictions one way or another about saving animals.  Don't get me wrong.  I love animals.  I have four dogs and I am absolutely appalled at the thought that anyone would intentionally hurt an animal.
On the other hand, my boyfriend owns a dairy and I see how the cows are treated.  They are not mistreated in any way.  They have all their needs met and are very well taken care of.  Yes, they do use some of them for meat when they no longer are able to produce milk.  They have also raised pigs for food, too.  I don't have a problem with that because I don't put them on the same level as people, I guess.  I sure don't want to get into any debates because I am aware that everyone has different views about those things.  I feel that the animals are slaughtered in the most humane way possible and that they don't know what is coming and have no fear.  Others may feel differently and I respect that.
I also don't see where it would make a difference in the quality of my life, although, again, others may disagree.  Because of my health issues I know who important quality of life is and if it would make a noticeable difference in how I feel or my energy level or emotional wellbeing I would certainly entertain it.  I just, at this time in my life, don't see the benefit, but as I said, I don't have strong moral convictions one way or another.  Please don't throw tomatoes.  I sure respect people who do and support them 100%.  I just don't at this point.

 Obviously, I'm speaking for myself, not Kelly. To me it's largely an animal rights and cruelty issue, but I also feel healthier and have much better digestion when I don't eat meat or a lot of dairy.

Note that I haven't eaten meat since I had surgery, so that might be different now, but I don't intend to eat any meat just to see.

It is primarily an ethical issue for me about how animals are treated.  And yeah, I think it does make a noticeable different in how I feel and in the quality of my life when I do things I feel are ethically correct (at least for me, I'm not generally in the business of making ethical choices for other people) or responsible or... I'm having trouble finding the right words.  There are things we all do that make us feel good, things that make us feel like we are living in harmony with the world, right?  And things we do that make us feel like things are not balanced properly or make us feel uncomfortable and like maybe we are not doing the right thing.  Doesn't being in balance and harmony feel better to you?  I realize different people find that balance and harmony in different ways.

I'm glad your boyfriend's cows are treated well.  The cows at the farm where I get my milk from are treated well, too.  But you know that's not the case with most dairy farms, right?  And your boyfriend's cows may be slaughtered in a very humane way, but you know that's not the case in most slaughter houses, right?  In most slaughter houses, the cows are killed right in front of each other and they do see what's coming and they do show fear - they cry out and they try to get away.

I'm not throwing any tomatoes.  I appreciate your input.

I love animals, I have alot of them. I understand how you feel about the abuse some suffer in the hands of the wrong people, however you have already stated the problems with swiching to a vegan diet would do To do something that would be unhealthy for you just on the principal of what some people do to animals is kind of like shooting yourself in the foot because you dont like that some shoes are made in sweat shops by childeren. The sweat shops dont know or care that you shot yourself in the foot. Everyone has different beliefs. So I dont want to step on anyones toes, but God gave us some animals for nuritment. He says which are good and which aren't. That was for health reasons. Obviously you need cows milk and chicken eggs. You found places to get these that do not mistreat the animals. Thats all you can do. If you feel strongly about the other places go after them do something that they will notice and understand. But dont jeapordize your health to make a stand or a statement that the ones your against wont ever even know you did.

 I read the whole thing and I empathize. I would love to be able to switch from vegetarian to vegan but I just don't see how I can make it work. And yes, it is frustrating dealing with people *****fuse to understand that wls patients might actually have different nutritional needs.

See, I'm not sure how much it is that I can't see how I can make it work and how much it is that I'm just too lazy to do what it would take to make it work.  And I see those as two different things.

A few thoughts come to mind in thinking about what you said.

#1 - we tend to ostracize RNYers and other WLSers who go the vegan route or even vegetarian because they do not bow at the altar of animal-based protein. Hence, there's not a defined community where a WLSer can go and ask a WLSer about converting. That is a shame.

#2 - I think even vegans and vegetarians don't understand the concept of complete proteins. I find it's a widely misunderstood concept.

#3 - If we wanted to be accurate about the name of milk, we call human milk breast milk. So technically it should be "Teet milk"

That is all.

I wonder if this is something that can be done in small measures. The process of going vegan sounds daunting to me but like most things is probably more manageable in little steps.

Could you get enough protein from soy products? Is something like TVP considered vegan?  Are there vegan protein powders that we RNYers can absorb and get benefit from? I really don't know much about veganism.

Since this is an ethical dilemna for you, is it possible to narrow your protein choices to ones that do not involve pain to animals? For example, you now get free range eggs. Is it a violation of your ethics to eat those? Not trying to be dumb here or overanalyze your choices.