OT - the ethics of food
I know, sometimes I think too much. So be forewarned, I'm going to ramble here.
I know not everyone thinks through things like this. But if you do (well, even if you don't), I'd love to hear your thoughts. I've been thinking a lot lately about the ethics involved with the food we purchase and eat.
Like, I recently watched a documentary about the use of child labor on cocoa plantations and how major chocolate manufacturers like Nestle continue to buy cocoa from these plantations despite the use of child labor. Well, like most people, I am not in favor of ten year olds being forced to work all day long on a plantation of any kind. I don't really want to give my money to people that support this. I don't want to support it with my money. But, you know, I like my protein bars that have some chocolate in them.
I recently started buying eggs and milk from a local farm where I can see that the animals are treated well. But I can't really buy cocoa from a local plantation where I can see that there are no child laborers. I've started making my own yogurt with the milk I buy so I know it's coming from cows that are treated well, but I don't really want to buy a bunch of cocoa and make my own protein bars, anyway.
And honestly, I have some questions about the farmer from whom I've chosen to buy milk and eggs. The laying hens and dairy cows are treated well; I've seen them and I believe that. But he also raises cows and pigs for meat. I'm sure those are treated well, too, up to the point they are killed. And they are probably butchered in the most humane way possible, but how humanely can you butcher a creature, honestly? So am I supporting the killing of animals by buying my milk and eggs from him? But that's really the best alternative I've found so far and I can't imagine I'll find something better.
You know, I think what we eat and what we spend our money on says a lot about our values. And I'm not passing judgment on anyone else's values if they make different choices than I do, I think we all have to make our own choices. But I think it's good to think about what our choices say about us and to think about whether or not our choices are really in line with the things we value or things we want to value. Anyone else think about this stuff?
I know not everyone thinks through things like this. But if you do (well, even if you don't), I'd love to hear your thoughts. I've been thinking a lot lately about the ethics involved with the food we purchase and eat.
Like, I recently watched a documentary about the use of child labor on cocoa plantations and how major chocolate manufacturers like Nestle continue to buy cocoa from these plantations despite the use of child labor. Well, like most people, I am not in favor of ten year olds being forced to work all day long on a plantation of any kind. I don't really want to give my money to people that support this. I don't want to support it with my money. But, you know, I like my protein bars that have some chocolate in them.
I recently started buying eggs and milk from a local farm where I can see that the animals are treated well. But I can't really buy cocoa from a local plantation where I can see that there are no child laborers. I've started making my own yogurt with the milk I buy so I know it's coming from cows that are treated well, but I don't really want to buy a bunch of cocoa and make my own protein bars, anyway.
And honestly, I have some questions about the farmer from whom I've chosen to buy milk and eggs. The laying hens and dairy cows are treated well; I've seen them and I believe that. But he also raises cows and pigs for meat. I'm sure those are treated well, too, up to the point they are killed. And they are probably butchered in the most humane way possible, but how humanely can you butcher a creature, honestly? So am I supporting the killing of animals by buying my milk and eggs from him? But that's really the best alternative I've found so far and I can't imagine I'll find something better.
You know, I think what we eat and what we spend our money on says a lot about our values. And I'm not passing judgment on anyone else's values if they make different choices than I do, I think we all have to make our own choices. But I think it's good to think about what our choices say about us and to think about whether or not our choices are really in line with the things we value or things we want to value. Anyone else think about this stuff?
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
Animals slaughtered in big slaughter houses (like most of the meat you would buy at the store) are usually not stunned before slaughter. It costs a couple pennies more to stun them first and takes a minute of extra time, so they skip the stunning to save time and money. There is no question that animals killed in most slaughter houses feel pain - they hang the cows upside down by one leg, which has to hurt, then slit their throats. They usually bleed to death pretty quickly but they feel some pain - they kick and squirm before they die.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
I can understand how you feel as well. I have tried vegetarianism in the past, but staryed away due to time and convenience.
It is probably more expensive, but perhaps you can research online for cocoa manufacturers that are in the US and don't employ child laborers.
I worry about animals too. I kind of feel "Who are we to think that animals are here just for us?" When I eat dairy, I wonder why humans do that. I mean- what other animal/mammal ingests the mother's milk of another animal? Cow'smilk is intended for baby cows to grow strong and big- why do we need it?
As a health concern, I also am concerned about the anitbiotics and hormones given to animals- can that be good for us?
Right now- I am going to just focus on getting protein in by probably using milk and yogurt- until I get to the point where I can eat normal food again.Then I am going to make aconscious effort to learn how to prepare tofu, quinoa, and other humane sources of protein.
I don't know if I helped you, but I can understand your feelings.
It is probably more expensive, but perhaps you can research online for cocoa manufacturers that are in the US and don't employ child laborers.
I worry about animals too. I kind of feel "Who are we to think that animals are here just for us?" When I eat dairy, I wonder why humans do that. I mean- what other animal/mammal ingests the mother's milk of another animal? Cow'smilk is intended for baby cows to grow strong and big- why do we need it?
As a health concern, I also am concerned about the anitbiotics and hormones given to animals- can that be good for us?
Right now- I am going to just focus on getting protein in by probably using milk and yogurt- until I get to the point where I can eat normal food again.Then I am going to make aconscious effort to learn how to prepare tofu, quinoa, and other humane sources of protein.
I don't know if I helped you, but I can understand your feelings.
I agree, it is weird that we drink milk from another animal. We don't need it - we like it and it has some nutrients that benefit us, like protein, but we don't need it.
The antibiotics and hormones in milk are absolutely not good for us. That's another reason I started buying milk from a local farmer - the cows eat an organic diet, they are mostly grass fed, just supplemented with some organic grain in winter when there is not enough grass to eat, and are not given antibiotics (unless they get sick, but their milk is not sold then until they are well) or hormones.
Do you think raising cows for milk is inherently inhumane? Or do you think if the cows are treated well, raising them for milk is OK?
The antibiotics and hormones in milk are absolutely not good for us. That's another reason I started buying milk from a local farmer - the cows eat an organic diet, they are mostly grass fed, just supplemented with some organic grain in winter when there is not enough grass to eat, and are not given antibiotics (unless they get sick, but their milk is not sold then until they are well) or hormones.
Do you think raising cows for milk is inherently inhumane? Or do you think if the cows are treated well, raising them for milk is OK?
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
I don't really give much thought to the slaughter of my meats. I will admit that I generally dont cook much at home (I'm trying to change this), because raw meat generally grosses me out. But...with that being said, I hate to see documentaries where animals are treated cruely, like that one where the cow is on the ground being sprayed by a hose and lifted by a fork lift. That made me sad regardless if I ate that particular cow or not. And the clips that they've recently shown where the chickens are swung around like a lasso by their wings. That also makes me sad.
As far as child labor is concerned, I have mixed feelings about it. As an American, of course I would hate to see chiildren working all day instead of being educated. However, there are countries that are so very poor that child labor assists in that child getting fed. Not all countries can be run with American ideals and ethics. American ideals and ethics were formed as a result of us being in the position to care for our youth (ie. foster care, public assistance), and it took many years for America to be in such a position. In many other countries if the child doesn't work, they don't eat, and if they dont eat, of course - they die. There are many children on the streets begging and left to their own devices in some very poor countries, there is no "safety net" for them like we have in this country. So, I am more concerned with "forced" child labor, than child labor. If a child knows that they must help out in order for everyone to eat, thats a little different than a parent sending their child off to some sort of a sweat shop away from their families so that the families can capitalized on their labor.
There are generations still alive today in this very country where children were not educated, but instead had to work on the farm to help out the family. In this country that is totally unacceptable now. Ideally, I would pray that every child be afforded with a quality education, and not have to work; however it continues to happen.
As far as child labor is concerned, I have mixed feelings about it. As an American, of course I would hate to see chiildren working all day instead of being educated. However, there are countries that are so very poor that child labor assists in that child getting fed. Not all countries can be run with American ideals and ethics. American ideals and ethics were formed as a result of us being in the position to care for our youth (ie. foster care, public assistance), and it took many years for America to be in such a position. In many other countries if the child doesn't work, they don't eat, and if they dont eat, of course - they die. There are many children on the streets begging and left to their own devices in some very poor countries, there is no "safety net" for them like we have in this country. So, I am more concerned with "forced" child labor, than child labor. If a child knows that they must help out in order for everyone to eat, thats a little different than a parent sending their child off to some sort of a sweat shop away from their families so that the families can capitalized on their labor.
There are generations still alive today in this very country where children were not educated, but instead had to work on the farm to help out the family. In this country that is totally unacceptable now. Ideally, I would pray that every child be afforded with a quality education, and not have to work; however it continues to happen.
I love your posts - we have a similar thought process I think!
As you may recall, I was a vegetarian for about ten years. I returned to eating meat because my body began to crave it again. I do not eat beef - never will again. I am freaked out by Mad Cow disease, don't laugh. If there were Mad Chicken or Mad Turkey, they would be off limits, too. Anyway...I still have major ethical hangups about eating meat again. I am an animal lover and still support animal rights. I often have guilt when I eat meat. But, I think about a lot of things around this topic. I believe we orignially evolved from a hunter and gatherer society. I think we are omnivores, not herbivores. I do think we are meant to have some (but not a lot of) meat in our diets, even if just on occasion.
I think we have to choose our battles and make choices in life within the best of our abilities. I think your farmer is doing something honorable - he offers humane, as close to natural as possible animal products for purchase. Not many farmers these days do this or can afford to do this. And you supporting him is honorable. I would suspect the animals he raises are as humanely slaughtered as possible, but like you said, how humane can slaughter be? It's a tough internal debate. For me, I try and buy the best I can - like you. I buy free range and humane meats, as humane as they can be for what they are. I don't drink milk and don't eat many eggs, so, again, I go as natural and humane as possible. I think if more farmers were able to raise animals and vend their products as this farmer does, we'd all be a lot healthier and happier. More people would demand humanity for animals. I think we'd eat less meat if there was more convenience in healthier eating - I do believe most Americans eat unhealthy meats and too much of them. Farming is an important part of that picture. I'd like to think someday I will go back to vegetarianism - it often does seem to be where my heart is. But, being only six months out postop, and not a huge fan of soy products, I stay with meat for now because I need to consider my health at the moment. It's the choice I have made.
I think in the bigger picture, continuing to support this farmer is what I would do if I was in your shoes. Again, just my take, but I know what you are feeling. Sometimes we have to endure and experience things in the short term to make the long term better or until a better option presents itself. Do I like that we do? Not always - but I try and think about the rewards in the end. Perhaps your support of him will lead to more people following in your footsteps and buying from local farms like you. You have a lot of respect on this board and that can go a long way. Does that mean that you should make your choices because you might influence others? No way - but perhaps it will spread awareness to others, and continue to spread. Every little bit of what we do counts.
I hope that made the slightest bit of sense. I reread it and I'm not sure I conveyed what I was trying to, but it's late and I am ready for bed.
As you may recall, I was a vegetarian for about ten years. I returned to eating meat because my body began to crave it again. I do not eat beef - never will again. I am freaked out by Mad Cow disease, don't laugh. If there were Mad Chicken or Mad Turkey, they would be off limits, too. Anyway...I still have major ethical hangups about eating meat again. I am an animal lover and still support animal rights. I often have guilt when I eat meat. But, I think about a lot of things around this topic. I believe we orignially evolved from a hunter and gatherer society. I think we are omnivores, not herbivores. I do think we are meant to have some (but not a lot of) meat in our diets, even if just on occasion.
I think we have to choose our battles and make choices in life within the best of our abilities. I think your farmer is doing something honorable - he offers humane, as close to natural as possible animal products for purchase. Not many farmers these days do this or can afford to do this. And you supporting him is honorable. I would suspect the animals he raises are as humanely slaughtered as possible, but like you said, how humane can slaughter be? It's a tough internal debate. For me, I try and buy the best I can - like you. I buy free range and humane meats, as humane as they can be for what they are. I don't drink milk and don't eat many eggs, so, again, I go as natural and humane as possible. I think if more farmers were able to raise animals and vend their products as this farmer does, we'd all be a lot healthier and happier. More people would demand humanity for animals. I think we'd eat less meat if there was more convenience in healthier eating - I do believe most Americans eat unhealthy meats and too much of them. Farming is an important part of that picture. I'd like to think someday I will go back to vegetarianism - it often does seem to be where my heart is. But, being only six months out postop, and not a huge fan of soy products, I stay with meat for now because I need to consider my health at the moment. It's the choice I have made.
I think in the bigger picture, continuing to support this farmer is what I would do if I was in your shoes. Again, just my take, but I know what you are feeling. Sometimes we have to endure and experience things in the short term to make the long term better or until a better option presents itself. Do I like that we do? Not always - but I try and think about the rewards in the end. Perhaps your support of him will lead to more people following in your footsteps and buying from local farms like you. You have a lot of respect on this board and that can go a long way. Does that mean that you should make your choices because you might influence others? No way - but perhaps it will spread awareness to others, and continue to spread. Every little bit of what we do counts.
I hope that made the slightest bit of sense. I reread it and I'm not sure I conveyed what I was trying to, but it's late and I am ready for bed.
"Keep a green tree in your heart and perhaps a singing bird will come" 
You do make sense and I won't laugh about the mad cow disease.
Perhaps the best thing to do would be for me to go vegan but I'm not willing to do that at this point. My reasons for not being willing to do that are sort of selfish, but if I'm really honest with myself, I'm just not willing to do it right now. (I'm not willing to give up toilet paper in order to save trees, either. I gave up paper napkins, paper towels and disposable maxipads, but I'm sticking with the toilet paper, at least for now.)
I also think we evolved from a hunter/gatherer society and I think our bodies are designed to eat small amounts of meat. I don't think our bodies are meant to eat the large amounts of meat many people eat, though. I always say that if I were stranded on an island and had very few food choices and had to eat a wild pig to survive, I'd eat the pig. But I'm not going to eat it now because I have other food choices that I feel better about. If I felt like I really needed the meat for my health, I would eat it, purchased from a humane source.
Perhaps the best thing to do would be for me to go vegan but I'm not willing to do that at this point. My reasons for not being willing to do that are sort of selfish, but if I'm really honest with myself, I'm just not willing to do it right now. (I'm not willing to give up toilet paper in order to save trees, either. I gave up paper napkins, paper towels and disposable maxipads, but I'm sticking with the toilet paper, at least for now.)
I also think we evolved from a hunter/gatherer society and I think our bodies are designed to eat small amounts of meat. I don't think our bodies are meant to eat the large amounts of meat many people eat, though. I always say that if I were stranded on an island and had very few food choices and had to eat a wild pig to survive, I'd eat the pig. But I'm not going to eat it now because I have other food choices that I feel better about. If I felt like I really needed the meat for my health, I would eat it, purchased from a humane source.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
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