Informed consent, medical ethics and more rambling
Did your wife get her program fee back? I think that was such a good idea to ask for it back. I wish I had thought of doing that myself.
I've been wondering what came of that meeting that were going to hold. I assume that's already happened by now.
I've been wondering what came of that meeting that were going to hold. I assume that's already happened by now.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
These are all good points. I picked my current doctor out of the phonebook on the theory that it was just as efficient as my HMO assigning me to someone. I went to him with a small problem. He didn't know it, but that was his test run. If he hadn't been open and willing to listen, I would have found someone else.
I was pleasantly surprised when I met him. We work really well together, and he actually listens to my questions and responds to me like an adult.
That being said, I have had heinous doctors in the past, especially in their reactions to my obesity. I think that medical schools should have more courses in how to talk to patients like people. Let's take the god complex out of doctors and have patients be treated as partners and participants instead of small, naughty children.
I was pleasantly surprised when I met him. We work really well together, and he actually listens to my questions and responds to me like an adult.
That being said, I have had heinous doctors in the past, especially in their reactions to my obesity. I think that medical schools should have more courses in how to talk to patients like people. Let's take the god complex out of doctors and have patients be treated as partners and participants instead of small, naughty children.
Maybe if 90% of the patients didn't act like naughty, small children..............
I don't know about the doctors that you have met, but most of the Physicians that I know (minus a few surgeons ;) )do not have a "god complex"
It takes an extraordinary amount of confidence to walk into 30 rooms a day not knowing what is to be encountered. Sure, its a sore throat here and a twisted ankle there, all of which would get better without a doctor, but "hey I pay for insurance and it's only a $10 copay, so what the heck?".
Often, though, there is tragedy on the other side of the door - a marriage failing, a teen suicide attempt, a wife with cancer, or a child with leukemia.........The potential amount of pain that a Family Physician encounters can be suffocating.
Multiply that by 20 years and see how that feels.
Sometimes I'm afraid to start crying out of fear that I might not be able to stop.
I'll give you that there are so many new meds and new treatments being released every month that it is mind numbing. often we are asked to use them by patients without having enough time to learn them as well as someone that has all day to page thru the PDR with a magnifying glass.
Couple that with the ads telling you to "Ask your doctor if XYZ is right for you", and there is no end to the academic challenge put before a doctor.
As for the money, I have made less and less every year with my peak earnings being about 1998. I see the first 18 patients a day to keep the lights on and pay the staff.
Hopefully I see more than that.
I'm not saying that doctors are better than anyone else. I'm not saying that they are all knowing, or have the empathy of Christ, or that they get a cape as hey cross the stage to get their diploma. We're humans. Often having paid several hundred thousand dollars in tuition, and kicked in the decade of our 20's to get a massive target painted on our chest for plaintiff's attorney.
We tend to work our asses off and assume a greater than average amount of liability to make a better than average income.
Please remember that when starting or joining in on a thread that rips the very ones that have given you the tool that probably will save your lives, or at least make them a little more active.
I don't know about the doctors that you have met, but most of the Physicians that I know (minus a few surgeons ;) )do not have a "god complex"
It takes an extraordinary amount of confidence to walk into 30 rooms a day not knowing what is to be encountered. Sure, its a sore throat here and a twisted ankle there, all of which would get better without a doctor, but "hey I pay for insurance and it's only a $10 copay, so what the heck?".
Often, though, there is tragedy on the other side of the door - a marriage failing, a teen suicide attempt, a wife with cancer, or a child with leukemia.........The potential amount of pain that a Family Physician encounters can be suffocating.
Multiply that by 20 years and see how that feels.
Sometimes I'm afraid to start crying out of fear that I might not be able to stop.
I'll give you that there are so many new meds and new treatments being released every month that it is mind numbing. often we are asked to use them by patients without having enough time to learn them as well as someone that has all day to page thru the PDR with a magnifying glass.
Couple that with the ads telling you to "Ask your doctor if XYZ is right for you", and there is no end to the academic challenge put before a doctor.
As for the money, I have made less and less every year with my peak earnings being about 1998. I see the first 18 patients a day to keep the lights on and pay the staff.
Hopefully I see more than that.
I'm not saying that doctors are better than anyone else. I'm not saying that they are all knowing, or have the empathy of Christ, or that they get a cape as hey cross the stage to get their diploma. We're humans. Often having paid several hundred thousand dollars in tuition, and kicked in the decade of our 20's to get a massive target painted on our chest for plaintiff's attorney.
We tend to work our asses off and assume a greater than average amount of liability to make a better than average income.
Please remember that when starting or joining in on a thread that rips the very ones that have given you the tool that probably will save your lives, or at least make them a little more active.
Docd, you made a great point about the "ask your doctor if xyz drug is right for you". Even the drug companies will tell you that's not a great tool as far as getting their drug used, etc... It's the reason we see so many drug reps pushing more than just the drug but education and programs, etc... Sure they want to see the drug but they also know that just getting a patient on a drug isn't the whole game considering what our health system is changing to in the coming years. They know outcomes are going to be important for reimbursements so keep the doctor happy because his patients are doing the proverbial right thing helps keep their foot in the door and it becomes a win for all involved. It just helps reiterate my point about we as patients need to be involved in our care and not just on the receiving end.
You think 90% of all patients that see doctors act like naughty small children? What do they do exactly that is like naughty small children?
I don't think I'm ripping anyone. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by ripping, so maybe I am, though.
I think many doctors do an excellent job. Yes, doctors have saved my life more than once. I don't see how that negates the need for informed consent, though.
I don't think I'm ripping anyone. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by ripping, so maybe I am, though.
I think many doctors do an excellent job. Yes, doctors have saved my life more than once. I don't see how that negates the need for informed consent, though.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
docd - I certainly can feel your pain! I'm a therapist in private practice and have felt the pinch of survival vs quality of care for my clients. It's a hard balance, but we get into this to serve people so it helps to keep that focus when all the other pressures weigh down.
Kelly - A theme that others have brought up is taking a collaborative approach. If the HCP doesn't fit with you, they just don't fit - nothing personal. I've had a couple drs be very insulting to me and some that I am blessed to have worked with. I pay it back by recommending the good ones and just chalk the bad ones up to a learning experience. To "teach" someone ethics and what they should be doing to patients is to take on more than is one's responsibility; if a dr doesn't measure up to the care one expects, the closing door is more than sufficient.
Kelly - A theme that others have brought up is taking a collaborative approach. If the HCP doesn't fit with you, they just don't fit - nothing personal. I've had a couple drs be very insulting to me and some that I am blessed to have worked with. I pay it back by recommending the good ones and just chalk the bad ones up to a learning experience. To "teach" someone ethics and what they should be doing to patients is to take on more than is one's responsibility; if a dr doesn't measure up to the care one expects, the closing door is more than sufficient.
First ultra: Stone Mill 50 miler 11/15/14 13:44:38, First Full Marathon: Marine Corps 10/27/13 4:57:11, Half Marathon PR 2:04:43 at Shamrock VA Beach Half-Marathon, 12/2/12 First Half-Marathon 2:32:47, 5K PR Run Under the Lights 5K 27:23 on 11/23/13, 10K PR 52:53 Pike's Peek 10K 4/21/13, (1st timed run) Accumen 8K 51:09 10/14/12.
I'm all for taking a collaborative approach and that works for me with my current doctors. I'm not suggesting that we should try to teach our doctors ethics. Perhaps they covered that in medical school? Or in their pre-med courses? I had to take medical ethics in college and I majored in social work.
I'm asking how we can encourage doctors to collaborate with patients and to provide complete and accurate information to patients so that patients can give informed consent. Perhaps that's not really our responsibility, but if no one makes an effort to change things, then things probably will not change. Now, if you're not interested in seeing things change, that's perfectly OK. I don't expect everyone in the world will agree on what things in the world should change. But for those that are interested in seeing some changes here, I'm wondering how we might go about that.
I'm asking how we can encourage doctors to collaborate with patients and to provide complete and accurate information to patients so that patients can give informed consent. Perhaps that's not really our responsibility, but if no one makes an effort to change things, then things probably will not change. Now, if you're not interested in seeing things change, that's perfectly OK. I don't expect everyone in the world will agree on what things in the world should change. But for those that are interested in seeing some changes here, I'm wondering how we might go about that.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
You know, I'm not sure about the ethics course thing! I'd be interested to hear from anyone who knows but I'd really be shocked if that wasn't required. Or maybe dismayed and shocked.
If we light a fire under dr's butts and demand informed consent, demand information, do you think that would help to change? I guess that implies consumer-driven change, and realistically that may not be sufficient, so maybe enough advocacy at the individual and systemic level is something we can work towards? Not just speaking out with one's individual dr but bringing it up in support groups, to patient liasons in surgeon's offices.....
If we light a fire under dr's butts and demand informed consent, demand information, do you think that would help to change? I guess that implies consumer-driven change, and realistically that may not be sufficient, so maybe enough advocacy at the individual and systemic level is something we can work towards? Not just speaking out with one's individual dr but bringing it up in support groups, to patient liasons in surgeon's offices.....
First ultra: Stone Mill 50 miler 11/15/14 13:44:38, First Full Marathon: Marine Corps 10/27/13 4:57:11, Half Marathon PR 2:04:43 at Shamrock VA Beach Half-Marathon, 12/2/12 First Half-Marathon 2:32:47, 5K PR Run Under the Lights 5K 27:23 on 11/23/13, 10K PR 52:53 Pike's Peek 10K 4/21/13, (1st timed run) Accumen 8K 51:09 10/14/12.
I think that if enough patients let doctors know that they expect the information they need in order to consent to treatment, things will start changing. I don't think we need to do it in a loud obnoxious way but just to say "This is the type of health care I am looking for."
I'm going to make the assumption that most doctors care about their patients. I'm sure there are lots of reasons people become doctors, but I do realize that the process of becoming a doctor is time consuming, difficult and costly. And yes, some doctors make very good money, but they generally have lots of student loans to repay and most work very hard for their money. It seems to me that if someone didn't really care about helping patients, there is a good chance they'd decide to go into another, easier line of work.
So if doctors care about their patients, I think they will probably listen to what their patients want, especially if they hear the same thing from many different patients. I don't think it's really as simple as that, and I know that people often resist change, but I think that's a start.
I'm going to make the assumption that most doctors care about their patients. I'm sure there are lots of reasons people become doctors, but I do realize that the process of becoming a doctor is time consuming, difficult and costly. And yes, some doctors make very good money, but they generally have lots of student loans to repay and most work very hard for their money. It seems to me that if someone didn't really care about helping patients, there is a good chance they'd decide to go into another, easier line of work.
So if doctors care about their patients, I think they will probably listen to what their patients want, especially if they hear the same thing from many different patients. I don't think it's really as simple as that, and I know that people often resist change, but I think that's a start.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
Most Active
Recent Topics