Empathy, sympathy, apathy...

Merriam Webster defines empathy as:

 

the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this

 

Sympathy is defined as:

 

an affinity, association, or relationship between persons or things wherein whatever affects one similarly affects the other

 

Apathy is:

 

lack of feeling or emotion

 

I point this out not to be the grammar police, but I noticed there was mention of empathy in Lithia’s support thread.

Empathy means recognizing someone is going through something WITHOUT having gone through it.

 

Sympathy is saying “because this affects you, it affects me…"

 

Apathy is “I don’t care."

 

I don’t think most folks here are looking for empathy, but sympathy. And I think that SYMPATHY can be delivered in many ways. I deliver sympathy in the form of “this is what would have been useful to me when I went through this." That sometimes doesn’t read touchy feely, but I care more about you moving forward in your individual processes more than I care about helping you wallow in your feelings or justifications (and yes, that sounds harsh but it’s the truth. I respect you all too much to lie to you).

 

I say all THAT to say that support can be sympathetic and empathetic while at the same time giving you that extra push. Many times I’ve seen folks here who have or are about to give up on themselves. You can’t do that if you want to be successful. YOU have to be a member of your own team. My advice is often a kick in the butt aimed at getting YOU back on YOUR own side.

 

I recognize when you’re new out it’s hard to see this because you’re going through a lot. But that’s an excuse just like every other excuse. We can pretty well tell what is someone being mean and what is someone being constructive (even factoring in the fact that tone is ill expressed in writing I think most of us are intuitive enough to pick up on the distinction. At least from what I've seen of the folks here). Take constructive criticism in stride. Block mean people. But in the long run, the folks who are out further than you can see more of the big picture than you can at this point. It was and is true for me and it is true for you.

 

But I think this place is a great springboard for dealing with the world at large. Life is often very unkind. You have to be your own advocate. Here’s as good a place as any to learn how to do that.

Once again, you've provided me with sound advice and another quote that I'm gonna keep.

"Life is often very unkind. You have to be your own advocate. Here’s as good a place as any to learn how to do that."

I don't seek out mean people, but some times there are kernels of good advice in their perspective.  However, I do seek out people that put a positive spin on problems and get their ass in gear to solve those problems.  I applaud people who have had WLS because they have done this.  I like this forum for that reason.  Plus I can selectively choose who to listen to, and the amount of time I want to devote to them.  Win, Win I think.

See, that's where my distinction of a mean person comes in (for my own purposes). It's someone who is saying something harsh simply for the sake of saying something harsh.

I know I strive (don't always succeed) to shape my responses around some sort of action. I like to challenge people to think about themselves in a different way. I'm a writer so I often challenge people to re-write their own stories.

Mean people? To me they are the ones who don't offer anything BUT criticism. And as my grandma used to say, "If you complain, you should be willing to be a part of the solution, not just part of the problem."

I always get caught up ni those words. I don't UNDERSTAND some things, and therefore have trouble empathizing..... for example, I have never been addicted to alcohol so I have trouble empathising with those who are alcoholics. To me it's just "say no" but I KNOW that it isn't that easy (sympahty?) even if I don't understand WHY it's not that simple (lack of empathy?)

In any case.... I agree with your post.

I too have trouble with empathy. Not because I haven't been there but because I am sort of stoic in nature.

I'm the child of a formerly abusive drug addict and alcoholic who got taken out of my home many times for abuse. I grew up into an emotionally neutered person in a sense. I had this teflon sheet of fat wrapped around me that kept me from feeling much of anything, good or bad.

Having shed that, I still get kind of annoyed when people complain too much. You might notice there are a great many posts I don't respond to and it's for that very reason. Because I am at least empathetic enough to know that the problems I see here are very real for the people experiencing them (even if they are not to me) and that it would NOT be helpful for me to say "SUCK IT UP!!!!"

So I just walk on by...

So I guess you're trying to tell me that perhaps there are those here that wouldn't take kindly to me telling them "Life's rough, get a helmet" huh? 



Ummm, OK, OK, I'll behave. You, as usual, have hit the nail on the head, m'dear Nikki. Just because you don't necessarily like the words someone uses doesn't mean you shouldn't hear what they have to say. 

I agree with you! I haven't had my surgery yet, but I kind of get mad at people who complain about problems they are having often because they didn't follow the rules or tried to cheat. I read it and think to myself, "Why would you even go through the surgery only to end up wasting yours and everyone else's time?" Then I have to remember that we all have our own demons to battle and food can be just as powerful as drugs or alcohol.

I can't speak to whether most people are looking for empathy or sympathy, but I can speak for myself.  When I am on here, I am looking for empathy.  I would like to hope that someone *****sponds to my posts understands what I am feeling whether they have been there or not.  Maybe as a therapist, I have a different understanding of empathy than some do.  We are educated and trained to feel emapthy, not sympathy for our clients (yes, I know we aren't clients on here).  Empathy is an act of letting another know that they have been heard and understood.  It does not require feeling sorry for them or supporting them in a pity party.  Empathy goes a long way in helping another to hear a perhaps painful message.  I have often had to let a client know that I heard and understood their pain, just before I confront them on their role in creating that pain.  Taking this out of the realm of therapist/client and bringing it home to family and friends, I can tell you that those folks also appreciate knowing that they are heard and understood.   They want to know that I "got it". 

So, I guess Nik, you and I have a somewhat differing opinion of empathy and sympathy, but I may well be in the minority.

Yes, I agree with you. But the minute someone gives some folks here constructive advice they are quick to say, "how can you be so mean??? haven't you been where I was once???"

That, to me, denotes the desire for sympathy. I can appreciate the desire for empathy. I'm not always good at it but I get it. But what I see here from some folks is NOT the desire for empathy, but rather a pity party wherein everyone excuses their poor behavior because it would hurt their feelings to point out the self destructedness of it all.

To me, it's like telling an alcoholic "it's ok you went on a bender. you're still a good person..." Is that true? Maybe. Is it helpful? Not particularly (in my humble opinion). I think I've made my stance clear in that I will not coddle. And I've been accused of being un-empathetic because of it.
So no...I don't think you and I have very different views of sympathy and empathy. I still stand by what I said. Many here want sympathy.  I don't do that. Some do. I leave it to those who do.

Well, we aren't far apart after all.  Thanks for clarifying, and I think you are right that some, maybe many want sympathy.  Sympathy is good at funerals, but not so much otherwise in my (maybe not humble) opinion.  I don't really give sympathy either, I do aim for empathy if the situation call for it.