Fed Up!

I think I have figured this one out. I have been observing for a while and it all finally clicked. The other day I noticed someone posted that they just had the RNY. A DSer congratulated her and then of course added that they HOPE things continue to go well. Translation....OMG! you got the dreaded RNY. The RNY Boogieman is coming to get you with all kinds of horrible complications. Why would someone have a need to make another person feel bad about their surgery choice? I have not seen a RNYer post that to a DSer. But why would they? The DS is the most wonderful surgery in the whole wide world. You are destined for failure with the RNY! You'll need a revision in a couple of years. Do you really think people are that naive? Believe it or not a lot of people who have the RNY do really well with it. Some may have complications but it's usually easy to fix. Some may gain some weight but it's okay if you weigh more than a hundred pounds. Some RNYer's move on and get a life. So I have witnessed a lot of santimonious behavior from DSers. Why is that? Why are they trying so hard to convince me how great there surgery is? Why are they trying so hard? The reason is a lot of us know they are lying! You are not being honest with us! The reason is that a lot of DSer's are miserable people. You'll lose weight, sure but there is something about the DS that makes people very unhappy. You guys are showing your true colors every time you bully a RNY person. Why do you have that need? Why are yoiu intolerant and see the world in black and white.Why are you defensive, what are you hiding from us? This is not normal behavior.  I have felt right from the beginning that something is not right. Too many Ds'ers are hostile and bullying. People who are at peace and content in this life don't have a need to act that way towards others. A lot of us are going to get our RNY and hang out on the board a while, and then we're going to leave and get a life. Here is the key. A life. There are a lot of DSers on this board. The group is active and people seem to spend hours trolling other boards berating people for their choices. You do not have a life! You all love to talk about how great your life is since you've had the DS, but you are at the computer all the time hurting people and making them feel bad. Happy people get a life and don't have a need to bash others. 
have not noticed on the RNy board. People don't talk at great length about how bad other surgeries are and we are so amazing. We are so superior. So guys there it is. Your posts are not posts from a person who is at peace. There are a higher percentage of intolerant mean-spirited individuals on the DS board. Some of you would have made great Nazis. So, no keep your surgery and all your amazing statistics. After all you have the best surgery in the world and no one has complications and no one dies, and everything is just perfect. The only problem is it makes you mean. I have not noticed snarky sarcastic remarks to other people from the RNY folks. You bully them and they take it. But I figured a lot of you out now. It is obvious to us! the DS is a very painful surgery to live with or you wouldn't have a need to hurt people. Rally RNYer's our surgery does not make us mean people and I'll take that over glorious weight-loss an yday. Let's argue that one baby!

Lol, I have wondered the same thing myself. It is almost like used car salesmen. I did have the DS and had a terrible experience. People on this board are afraid to say anything negative about their DS because they are bullied so bad. There are other boards where people are more honest. The truth is a lot of DSers have problems with gas, especially very smelly gas. Some, like me, have chronic diarrhea. Some, like me, even have accidents and have to consider wearing adult diapers. No one hear likes to admit that. I know I had a crappy DS surgeon and that probably didn't help things but I have heard from people with very respected surgeons who have had complications. It can affect people socially when they have to worry about others noticing their smell or if they have to use a bathroom in public and didn't bring along an air freshener. I have heard people say that they have had others in the public restroom retching and gagging from the smell.
The other thing people hear dont like to talk about is the number of post ops that aren't compliant with their vitamins and suffer from health issues because of that. Of course, they blame the person for their problems but the truth is we are all humans and not everyone is perfect at following the rules. That is why many former DS surgeons won't perform the surgery any more, because of the high number or non compliant patients. That is a reality. The risks are very great if you aren't on top of your lab work and vitamins. I am sure that most people who post regularly are but what about those who don't post, who just go on to their regular life and don't take things too seriously? I just read a post from a 10 year post op on another board who lost his legs from malnutrition.
I am sure the millitant DSers will flame me and blame me and my poor choice of surgeons for all my problems. Fine if that makes you feel better and immune from any future complications because you are so perfect and choose a perfect surgeon.

Ladytazz,

I'm not saying this to flame or to cause any problems, but you've put the DS down before, but didn't mention that you'd had one and were looking to revise from it. I checked your profile and there's no info. I think that it's really important to get information out to people, since it's what I do for a living. I think that if you had a bad experience you should document it and show it - name the doctor, talk about what went wrong, etc. Why would it be your fault? That's ridiculous, you're not the surgeon.

I don't have any statistics on the number of surgeons who stopped performing the surgery. It doesn't go along with the information provided in the journals and through the ASBMS. I also don't have statistics on things like gas, accidents, etc - the only time I had any problems was with the c. diff. Since that's over I don't have anything like what you describe.

I chose a well-respected surgeon the first time around (RNY) and as I said to Kimberley, I wound up severely anemic and vitamin deficient, even though I was following the prescribed protocol. It happens. I don't think the medical profession is immune from mistakes and I think that even now, with the DS, I'd rather follow vitalady's vitamin schedule rather than my surgeon's.

It says in my post that I had the DS.  It says under my name that I had a revision on 7/23/10 and that my surgeon was Dr. Clifford Deveney.  I haven't filled out my profile because I had an old one on OH and never got around to updating it.  I figured I could tell people anything they want to know.  It is a long boring story but the short version is I had a DS, loved, loved, loved it for the first 2 or 3 years then I started regaining and because of my embarrassment stopped going to support groups and posting on message boards.  I blame myself because of my poor food choices.  I had progressively worse problems with diarrhea and gas and thought I would just have to live with it.  I wasn't dilligent with my supplements but I did get my labs done every year and was told they were fine.  I was given post op instructions to take a multivitamin and 2000 mg of calcium and that was it.  I heard that I needed ADEKs, too and I took those.  I had the mistaken opinion that if I was absorbing calories I must be absorbing nutrients, too.  I did have a problem with low D and got in Vitalady's dry D and it went up.  I had low ferritin and had an iron infusion.  Other then that my labs were good but I didn't know that they weren't looking for a lot of things that needed to be looked for.  If I hadn't have been so embarrassed at my weight gain I might have been willing to get the support I needed.
I found out after my revision that my surgeon was, well, just a lousy DS surgeon.  I know he left my stomach way too large.  I don't know if he even did my surgery correctly to be honest.  The problems I had seem like the same problems people with the ERNY and BPD have, chronic diarrhea and bloating gas and awful smelling gas and stools.  I had no way of knowing this when I had my surgery in 2002.  If I knew then what I know now I would  have chosen a better surgeon but there is nothing I can do about it now.
What finally got my attention was the terrible fatigue I started suffering about a year ago.  After going through multitudes of tests I felt that my surgery was the cause because I didn't follow the supplements as closely as I should have.  Even after I went to my PCP and gave her a list of labs to be run that were given to me by Dina M. they still didn't run them all.  I finally just had enough and went back to my surgeon and begged for a reversal.  He was all too happy to do that since he never liked the DS to begin with and stopped doing them, as did the hospital that I went to.  They did this because of all the problems they were seeing with malnutrition and non compliance.  I guess they were afraid of being sued.
My surgeon suggested I get a RNY pouch and not wanting to gain any more weight I agreed.  I am doing well and have no problems.  My labs are much improved.  My protein level has gone from the bottom of the range to the top of the range.
If there is anything else you want to know I'll be happy to tell you.  I am not bashing the DS.  I think it is the best WLS there is available right now.  But it is also a dangerous surgery for those who can't comply.  And there are possible side effects that some of us have that are hard to live with.  People have a right to know the good and the bad.

I wasn't sure if Dr. Deveney was your first or second surgeon, since it said revision. I wound up changing my profile to read DS instead of revision after awhile, mostly because "revision" isn't a surgery type on it's own. I think OH should have a better choice of wording.

If you had your surgery in 2002, you probably did have the BPD/DS, which is different from the way the DS is done now.  No one should still be doing the BPD. My primary care doc told me that she has a BPD patient who is so unable to gain weight that they had to prescribe narcotics to slow down her system. She said that I am the opposite - that I am the picture of health compared to that woman, and she's happy that my weight loss slowed down.

I agree completely with you that people should know the good and the bad - that's why I'm glad that people post everything. I had a very long PM convo with someone before my surgery, because I wanted to know all about her complications since I was going to the same surgeon.

We all go into this wanting to believe that the medical community has our best interests at heart and that they are doing the right things, but that's not always the case. I'm glad you have reversed the deficiencies that you were having, it's important to keep the levels up.  I'm now taking proferrin to get my iron levels up, I'll be tested next month to see how things are going a year out.

I read my surgical report and I was supposed to be having the bpd/ds like it is currently performed but I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't have some kind of old type procedure because of my side effects were like those that I have read about who had the old bpd and ERNY and very distal procedures.  I wish I knew better and was able to have a good DS surgeon check me out and see if it was performed correctly.  I just found out that someone I know that had her surgery at the same place but by a different surgeon was told that she didn't even have a DS. 
Oh well, there is nothing I can do about it now anyway.  I may just be one of those unlucky people that gained weight and had bad side effects no matter who did my surgery.  Fortunately I am having no problems now.  I tolerate all foods that I have tried.  I am scared of reactive hypoglycemia though.  To tell you the truth if I had known about the possiblity of getting that I might not have had the pouch done.  It was only 8 days from seeing my surgeon until I had my surgery so I didn't have time to research it.  That scared me more then gaining weight.
I hope that you continue to do well and that you don't have any more problems with your iron.  Have you had an infusion?  They are no fun but it took care of my problem.  My ferritin is now 239.  It was 7 before the infusion.

Hey -didn't get notification of this. OH can be wonky sometimes.

You know, I've heard about people who thought they had the DS or some other surgery, and then found out they didn't have anything of the sort. You might have had the bpd without the ds and wouldn't know it. There's a lot of crazy stuff out there.

I was sent to the hematologist about a month after surgery, and she wanted me to try iron therapy before going through with an infusion. I've been borderline, although I think things are getting better. I just have to get tested next month.

Kimberley,

I'm sorry you feel that way. I know from reading your posts on here that you've been back and forth on what to do since you had the problems with your band, and I feel like you're under a lot of pressure.

I would like to think that I have been very honest about my own experience. I lost weight with RNY and kept most of it off, but had severe reflux which damaged my esophagus. That reflux was due to a band around my stoma, and I needed to have it removed. I revised to the DS because it was the best choice for me - not for anyone else. Everyone has to do their research and figure out what will work for them. Nothing else really would have "cured" the esophageal erosion, except maybe going for a sleeve instead of the full DS, but since I still had weight to lose and my body is very efficient at holding onto weight, I felt the DS was the best choice.

My RNY surgeon was one of the top guys around back when I had it done (2003). He ran a tight ship, had a large support group, and really addressed the group all the time. He was honest - he told us then he was appalled by the lap-band because it was already showing great rates of failure. He said that it was a real money-maker, and that the surgeons who performed it joked about making double the money because people (or insurance) would pay to have the band removed.

Ironically, this same doctor used a prolene mesh band around his rny patients' stomas to prevent stretching and regain. This band or ring is what caused my problems. I'm still in contact with a bunch of people from the support group, and many of them have the same problems I had - reflux, vomiting after eating solid protein sources, foaming, etc.

Now on to vitamin deficiencies. I always took my calcium & multivitamins post-op as instructed. In Nov. 2008 I woke up the day before Thanksgiving with severe swelling in my hands, and pain shooting down my arm. After I left work I went to the walk-in medical because my own doctor's office was closed. The doctor said it looked like arthritis pain swelling, and it had nothing to do with water. He sent me for blood tests to see if that was the case.  Well, I didn't have arthritis, but I was severely anemic. When he got the results he called me in immediately, and showed me that I was deficient in many areas, and that I was so anemic that my red blood cells were large and misshapen.   He figured I had some internal bleeding due to the rny, and sent me for an endoscopy and colonoscopy. There wasn't any internal bleeding, but lots of esophageal scarring.

So, here I was, more than 5 years post-op, and I had a body that couldn't lose weight anymore, I had the esophageal problem, and I had severe anemia. Turns out that although the malabsorption of the RNY ends after 2 years (hence the bounceback) most patients will continue to malabsorb supplements. One of my best buddies found out that she was in severe danger because she was not absorbing any calcium. She was diagnosed with breast cancer & it was spreading to her bones. I am very thankful to report that she has been in remission for over a year and is doing well.

I guess my point about that is that even with RNY, you need supplements for life, and I don't think that many doctors give you a complete list of what you'll need. The bariatric vitamin companies seem to market items that don't always jibe with what we need. I give Vitalady a great deal of credit for getting the info out there on what people need post-surgery and how to maintain healthy levels.

I think the RNY can be a useful tool, but I don't think it's perfect. The DS isn't perfect, either, but in some cases it's probably a much better fit. I have a lot of friends who are happy with their RNY, a few who are in the same boat I was and wish they could revise but can't for one reason or another (usually money/insurance problems) and a few *****gained all. The ones *****gained all don't follow an eating/exercise plan of any sort.  I would NEVER recommend a lap band. Of the 6 friends I have who got them, only 1 hasn't had complications, and she never reached a normal goal weight. All the others have had complications like slippage, a port flip, leaks, etc.

People die. People die from the DS revision, people die from ERNY revisions, people die from simple surgeries. On here we have Renfairewench, who has been suffering for over a year. She's in the hospital now recovering from surgery to repair her leak, and she has been very open & honest about her difficulties. Doodles (Faith) on the Ds board died after surgery. Bariatric surgery always has risks. It's not like people who are morbidly obese are going into this the picture of health, and surgery will always be more difficult on larger individuals. The memorial board on OH is sobering to read. There are so many people who have died from complications.

I think I've been lucky. I didn't have any surgical complications post-DS, and this year has gone very well. I would like to have lost a bit more, but my main concern was removing that ring and getting on with life - and that's happened. I did have one complication - I caught c. diff, and after a few months of flagyl and vancocin, I'm happy to say I don't have it anymore. I could have caught that with any surgery, since it comes after being given antibiotics which weaken the body's defenses against c. diff. Other than the c. diff it's been a breeze, so if I sound like a DS cheerleader, it's because I'm glad things have gone so well. No pain other than post-op, no problems, no more reflux, and I'm happy I can eat. I did some really positive things for myself this year - got a new job, took dance lessons with my husband, and ended the year by buying a house. None of that had anything to do with the surgery, but I think that if the surgery had been bad for me I wouldn't have been able to do any of those positive things.

I've had people say snarky things to me on the main board, some people act like if you've had a revision you're a failure. Others act like you've committed a sin picking the DS because there's a lot of misinformation out there. I'm a research librarian, and I researched heavily before making my decision.  Hell, I've had people attack me because I dared to speak out about bad plastic surgery. A couple of people didn't believe me even though I was honest, showed pictures, and had links to other peoples' profiles who'd also had bad surgery. Why? Because they chose the same doctor and didn't want to hear anything negative about him. Hey, it's their choice. They asked my opinion, I gave it, and yes, their mileage may vary.

Anyway, I don't know if you've decided on RNY or on not having any wls revision at this point, but no matter what, I do wish you well, and I hope that you'll continue to post and help others out. Happy New Year.,
Adele