RNY reversals? How about Revisions? Who was your surgeon?
(deactivated member)
on 10/26/09 1:18 am
on 10/26/09 1:18 am
Dr. S. has said that he plans to reattach the stomach to the pouch, as that is what I asked for.
He did say that there is the chance that the pyloric valve will not function, since it has been 7 years since it last "worked".
Also, there is the chance that the intestines may not absorb. This could be a short-term problem, as they begin to "awaken" over time. But, it may not be an issue at all.
For me, it is the right thing to do. I think another major concern I have is the medications I need to take now and in the future. Doctors prescribe medicines based on tests and trials done with people who have "normal" absorption (not bypassed). They do not know the proper doses, due to our diminished absorption, of any medicine that is typically absorbed in our bypassed intestines. That in and of itself is enough reason to have it reversed, in my opinion.
Thanks for your post!
Good luck to you & all the best,
Christine
He did say that there is the chance that the pyloric valve will not function, since it has been 7 years since it last "worked".
Also, there is the chance that the intestines may not absorb. This could be a short-term problem, as they begin to "awaken" over time. But, it may not be an issue at all.
For me, it is the right thing to do. I think another major concern I have is the medications I need to take now and in the future. Doctors prescribe medicines based on tests and trials done with people who have "normal" absorption (not bypassed). They do not know the proper doses, due to our diminished absorption, of any medicine that is typically absorbed in our bypassed intestines. That in and of itself is enough reason to have it reversed, in my opinion.
Thanks for your post!
Good luck to you & all the best,
Christine
Christine, I agree with Michele it appeared to me you were attacking Michelle also. Michelle does have her business that helps lots of WLS patients....she has helped me in so many ways but has NEVER pushed her vitamins on me, NEVER.
I've bought some from her, others from various other people. Michelle is a long-term post that has been through the various deficiencies and has researched, learned, and has the information/support to back up what she shares with each of us.
I have no idea where I'd be today without Michelle....maybe the same place you are with deficiencies since my surgeon also said I'd have to take multivitamins, B-12, calcium and iron ONLY for the rest of my life....not the additional vitamins we are finding necessary due to other deficiencies we didn't realize would affect RNYers (namely Vitamin D and Vitamin A).
I wish you the best in your pursuit of a reversal.
I've bought some from her, others from various other people. Michelle is a long-term post that has been through the various deficiencies and has researched, learned, and has the information/support to back up what she shares with each of us.
I have no idea where I'd be today without Michelle....maybe the same place you are with deficiencies since my surgeon also said I'd have to take multivitamins, B-12, calcium and iron ONLY for the rest of my life....not the additional vitamins we are finding necessary due to other deficiencies we didn't realize would affect RNYers (namely Vitamin D and Vitamin A).
I wish you the best in your pursuit of a reversal.
Proximal RNY Lap - 02/21/05
9 years committed ~ 100% EWL and Maintaining
www.dazzlinglashesandbeyond.com
Christine,
I'm so sorry for all the problems you have. You make some very valid and thought provoking points about the uncertainty of malabsorbtive procedures. Have you been to the Yahoo WLS Gone Wrong group? It is a forum for people with similar issues. There's been some recent discussion on Dr. Schlesinger. He was not my original surgeon, I've consulted him for an ERNY but have not gotten insurance approval.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OSSG-gone_wrong/
But why did you feel it was necessary to attack Michelle? She was just trying to help. Yes, she sells vitamins but she never, ever tells any one to buy specifically from her. Her advice is always freely given without any expectation of profit. Without her counsel over the years, I know I wouldn't be as healthy as I am today.
I hope Dr. S will be able to help you and you regain your health.
Michele
I'm so sorry for all the problems you have. You make some very valid and thought provoking points about the uncertainty of malabsorbtive procedures. Have you been to the Yahoo WLS Gone Wrong group? It is a forum for people with similar issues. There's been some recent discussion on Dr. Schlesinger. He was not my original surgeon, I've consulted him for an ERNY but have not gotten insurance approval.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OSSG-gone_wrong/
But why did you feel it was necessary to attack Michelle? She was just trying to help. Yes, she sells vitamins but she never, ever tells any one to buy specifically from her. Her advice is always freely given without any expectation of profit. Without her counsel over the years, I know I wouldn't be as healthy as I am today.
I hope Dr. S will be able to help you and you regain your health.
Michele
(deactivated member)
on 10/26/09 1:49 am
on 10/26/09 1:49 am
Thank you for your kind wishes. I hope that you, too, are able to find what you seek in your lifetime. 
I don't feel that I "attacked" Michelle. I apologize to all who felt that it was an attack.
My original post was asking for opinions on surgeons. Michelle asked what my specific complications were, and offered to help find the "fixit guy" if she had that info. When I listed my complications, she asked me about my vitamins. No info on a "fixit guy". Just an attempt to bring vitamins into the conversation (which is about opinions on surgeons, not vitamins). I told her about my current vitamins. She began telling me about the "right" vitamins. Gee, I wonder where I could find those??? (It's a common sales tactic....offer a cure & people will buy....that's why Gary Trudeau is a millionaire). Anyway, still no "fixit guy". But she did manage to discredit a dx I'd gotten from a physician. Because she attendted a seminar on it. I didn't ask for a second opinion on my dx's. I asked for opinions on a surgeon.
I realize that she never said I should buy from her. And, she didn't give "bad" advice (unsolictied, unwarranted, & unwanted, yes. but not necessarily "bad"). She did, however, give opionions and made statements that had nothing to do with the original post, but rather all about vitamins. So, did that raise a marketing flag in my head? Yes, it sure did. A best marketing practice is to plant a seed and let it grow. Another, offer a cure (doesn't matter for what) and people WILL BUY. Now, who do you think a person would ask the question, "Where can I buy these vitamins?" Probably from the person giving their advice/opinion. **"SALE"**
So, if it came off as an attack, I'm sorry. I was just irritated with the unsolicited sales pitch. (I've seen it happen before. There's a person who had ERNY, and is not doing well at all. This person is seeing Mayo Clinic experts in nutrition and endocrinology. She's been told she needs a PICC line placed so her body can get some nutrition before she has the reversal surgery that all her doctors have said she needs to have to save her life. Michelle told her all about her vitamins & supplements. Then told her "not to give up yet. she can still come through this." That did annoy me too. Here's a woman who's been told by teams of doctors that she's going to DIE if she doesn't have a reversal. But Michelle told her she could "come through ths" with some vitamins and supplements.
I do honestly think that it's a great thing that Michelle does so much research on supplements, and that she's willing to disseminate that info to people. However, it needs to be done in the proper way, and in the proper forum. In both cases, she gave unsolicited advice on vitamins. And in both cases, it was inappropriate (the other person responded to her posts and indicated irritation in Michelle's advice & inappropriateness). This is just my opinion, though.
Again, I do sincerely apologize if it seemed (or seems) I was attacking Michelle....or anyone else for that matter. I just was expressing my sentiments & thoughts. I am not usually one to be demure, or beat around the bush. I am sorry if I offended you, Michele (and you too, Michelle/Vitalady). That was not my intention.
Christine
(I'm also sure that Michelle/Vitalady sells the highest quality products. So, if someone IS looking for supplements, I honestly believe she's the person to contact.)
I don't feel that I "attacked" Michelle. I apologize to all who felt that it was an attack.
My original post was asking for opinions on surgeons. Michelle asked what my specific complications were, and offered to help find the "fixit guy" if she had that info. When I listed my complications, she asked me about my vitamins. No info on a "fixit guy". Just an attempt to bring vitamins into the conversation (which is about opinions on surgeons, not vitamins). I told her about my current vitamins. She began telling me about the "right" vitamins. Gee, I wonder where I could find those??? (It's a common sales tactic....offer a cure & people will buy....that's why Gary Trudeau is a millionaire). Anyway, still no "fixit guy". But she did manage to discredit a dx I'd gotten from a physician. Because she attendted a seminar on it. I didn't ask for a second opinion on my dx's. I asked for opinions on a surgeon.
I realize that she never said I should buy from her. And, she didn't give "bad" advice (unsolictied, unwarranted, & unwanted, yes. but not necessarily "bad"). She did, however, give opionions and made statements that had nothing to do with the original post, but rather all about vitamins. So, did that raise a marketing flag in my head? Yes, it sure did. A best marketing practice is to plant a seed and let it grow. Another, offer a cure (doesn't matter for what) and people WILL BUY. Now, who do you think a person would ask the question, "Where can I buy these vitamins?" Probably from the person giving their advice/opinion. **"SALE"**
So, if it came off as an attack, I'm sorry. I was just irritated with the unsolicited sales pitch. (I've seen it happen before. There's a person who had ERNY, and is not doing well at all. This person is seeing Mayo Clinic experts in nutrition and endocrinology. She's been told she needs a PICC line placed so her body can get some nutrition before she has the reversal surgery that all her doctors have said she needs to have to save her life. Michelle told her all about her vitamins & supplements. Then told her "not to give up yet. she can still come through this." That did annoy me too. Here's a woman who's been told by teams of doctors that she's going to DIE if she doesn't have a reversal. But Michelle told her she could "come through ths" with some vitamins and supplements.
I do honestly think that it's a great thing that Michelle does so much research on supplements, and that she's willing to disseminate that info to people. However, it needs to be done in the proper way, and in the proper forum. In both cases, she gave unsolicited advice on vitamins. And in both cases, it was inappropriate (the other person responded to her posts and indicated irritation in Michelle's advice & inappropriateness). This is just my opinion, though.
Again, I do sincerely apologize if it seemed (or seems) I was attacking Michelle....or anyone else for that matter. I just was expressing my sentiments & thoughts. I am not usually one to be demure, or beat around the bush. I am sorry if I offended you, Michele (and you too, Michelle/Vitalady). That was not my intention.
Christine
(I'm also sure that Michelle/Vitalady sells the highest quality products. So, if someone IS looking for supplements, I honestly believe she's the person to contact.)
Well, I'm thinking I will not respond to every point. But just a few.
I LIKE Dr. S. If your problems had been all mechanical (blockage, vomiting). He is who I had in mind.
With nutritional issues, not all the answers lie in any one place.
Classes. WEll, I attend the ASMBS, which is a week every year. Been attending since 2000. I also work with MD, RN, RD's, and it works back 'n forth.
I usually can cite back up info for what i say, sometimes WLS world, sometimes that speciality, so for example, Vit D2 in oil (rx) vs Vit D3 (dry) is rampant in endo journals. So, the sourcing might not be all WLS stuff, but from the original speciality.
What I got from you mainly is that you are unhappy with the "unnatural" way of malabsorption. I get that. Most intact adults do take a multi, vit D3, B12 and calcium. So, I guess that doesn't seem so odd to me.
So, even you had a simpler, less malabsorptive surgery, you would be irritated that you cannot get all your nutrition from food. I understand that. It doesn't apply to me, because I prefer a ton of vites to a ton of RX, but that was MY pre-op life. Not everyone went into their WLS as a basket case.
So, with your point of view in mind, a reversal is probably where you should be looking. Since you are in AZ, I would refer you to Dr. S. He has my two requirements in any surgeon: brain + heart.
I LIKE Dr. S. If your problems had been all mechanical (blockage, vomiting). He is who I had in mind.
With nutritional issues, not all the answers lie in any one place.
Classes. WEll, I attend the ASMBS, which is a week every year. Been attending since 2000. I also work with MD, RN, RD's, and it works back 'n forth.
I usually can cite back up info for what i say, sometimes WLS world, sometimes that speciality, so for example, Vit D2 in oil (rx) vs Vit D3 (dry) is rampant in endo journals. So, the sourcing might not be all WLS stuff, but from the original speciality.
What I got from you mainly is that you are unhappy with the "unnatural" way of malabsorption. I get that. Most intact adults do take a multi, vit D3, B12 and calcium. So, I guess that doesn't seem so odd to me.
So, even you had a simpler, less malabsorptive surgery, you would be irritated that you cannot get all your nutrition from food. I understand that. It doesn't apply to me, because I prefer a ton of vites to a ton of RX, but that was MY pre-op life. Not everyone went into their WLS as a basket case.
So, with your point of view in mind, a reversal is probably where you should be looking. Since you are in AZ, I would refer you to Dr. S. He has my two requirements in any surgeon: brain + heart.
Michelle
RNY, distal, 10/5/94
P.S. My year + long absence has NOTHING to do with my WLS, or my type of WLS. See my profile.
On October 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM Pacific Time, vitalady wrote:
Well, I'm thinking I will not respond to every point. But just a few.I LIKE Dr. S. If your problems had been all mechanical (blockage, vomiting). He is who I had in mind.
With nutritional issues, not all the answers lie in any one place.
Classes. WEll, I attend the ASMBS, which is a week every year. Been attending since 2000. I also work with MD, RN, RD's, and it works back 'n forth.
I usually can cite back up info for what i say, sometimes WLS world, sometimes that speciality, so for example, Vit D2 in oil (rx) vs Vit D3 (dry) is rampant in endo journals. So, the sourcing might not be all WLS stuff, but from the original speciality.
What I got from you mainly is that you are unhappy with the "unnatural" way of malabsorption. I get that. Most intact adults do take a multi, vit D3, B12 and calcium. So, I guess that doesn't seem so odd to me.
So, even you had a simpler, less malabsorptive surgery, you would be irritated that you cannot get all your nutrition from food. I understand that. It doesn't apply to me, because I prefer a ton of vites to a ton of RX, but that was MY pre-op life. Not everyone went into their WLS as a basket case.
So, with your point of view in mind, a reversal is probably where you should be looking. Since you are in AZ, I would refer you to Dr. S. He has my two requirements in any surgeon: brain + heart.
(deactivated member)
on 10/26/09 12:22 pm
on 10/26/09 12:22 pm
Hi Karen,
What I said was that I've taken literally thousands of vitamins over the last 7 years. And I've been compliant. I am still anemic & have the other listed complications. I wasn't a "basket case" before the surgery. I was thrilled for the first 2 years. Then I started feeling sick. And sicker. And sicker.
I did my research. 7 years ago our surgeons told us that we'd need a multi-vitamin, calcium & some iron. They did not tell us we'd need dozens of different specialized vitamins....this is probably because no one knew that, at that time.
I'm not sick due my "lack of research" or non-compliance or my "basket case" problems before surgery. I'm sick because I don't absorb things. No, I don't want to spend $100 per month, every month for the rest of my life just to feel barely okay. That wasn't part of the original plan. Back when I had my surgery done, everyone pretty much thought a multi-vitamin, calcium & iron would take care of us. They didn't know that wasn't the case. So they couldn't tell you what they didn't know. Nor could you research the facts that weren't known yet.
"Swallowing vitamins everyday" has been part of my life for 7 years. I am NOT healthy.
I'm really sorry I answered the first question regarding vitamins. I did not want vitamin advice. This thread was for opinions on surgeons. When I said I didn't appreciate the pushing of vitamins, lots of folks got their panties in a wad. I'm sorry that my opinion wasn't popular. However, belittling me for my opinion IS an attack. So is inferring a person is or was a "basket case".
I think Michelle/Vitalady should continue to "peddle her vitamins". But not when the peddling is unsolicited and not in the proper thread/discussion.
If you want to go on believing that I attacked someone, when that was not my intent, and I have apologized several times for seeming that way (even though I never intended or thought of "attacking" anyone), then go right ahead. I don't really care how much of a wad your panties are in over this.
I was a member of this site for about 2 years. Before and after my surgery in 2002. I left because of all the cattiness on these boards. I thought I'd come back to see if I could get some opinions/advice on surgeons. I did get some great emails/pm's. I also got sales pitched. And I also got attacked. I was called "non-compliant" and a "basket case". Please show me my exact words where I called anyone names? I only voiced my irritation with what was clearly not the advice/opinions I was asking for in this thread. If that's more than the folks on this board can deal with, well, I will happily leave again.
When a person apologizes, generally people with some degree of social decorum accept the apology and move on. And after an apology (or two or three, even!), most people with basic social skills do not continue to disparage the person who apologized.
I do sincerely appreciate the people who emailed & pm'ed with their wonderful words & advice. I will leave this forum with yet another apology to those who were/are offended by my directness of speech. I am sorry. But I am happy to be leaving...again.
What I said was that I've taken literally thousands of vitamins over the last 7 years. And I've been compliant. I am still anemic & have the other listed complications. I wasn't a "basket case" before the surgery. I was thrilled for the first 2 years. Then I started feeling sick. And sicker. And sicker.
I did my research. 7 years ago our surgeons told us that we'd need a multi-vitamin, calcium & some iron. They did not tell us we'd need dozens of different specialized vitamins....this is probably because no one knew that, at that time.
I'm not sick due my "lack of research" or non-compliance or my "basket case" problems before surgery. I'm sick because I don't absorb things. No, I don't want to spend $100 per month, every month for the rest of my life just to feel barely okay. That wasn't part of the original plan. Back when I had my surgery done, everyone pretty much thought a multi-vitamin, calcium & iron would take care of us. They didn't know that wasn't the case. So they couldn't tell you what they didn't know. Nor could you research the facts that weren't known yet.
"Swallowing vitamins everyday" has been part of my life for 7 years. I am NOT healthy.
I'm really sorry I answered the first question regarding vitamins. I did not want vitamin advice. This thread was for opinions on surgeons. When I said I didn't appreciate the pushing of vitamins, lots of folks got their panties in a wad. I'm sorry that my opinion wasn't popular. However, belittling me for my opinion IS an attack. So is inferring a person is or was a "basket case".
I think Michelle/Vitalady should continue to "peddle her vitamins". But not when the peddling is unsolicited and not in the proper thread/discussion.
If you want to go on believing that I attacked someone, when that was not my intent, and I have apologized several times for seeming that way (even though I never intended or thought of "attacking" anyone), then go right ahead. I don't really care how much of a wad your panties are in over this.
I was a member of this site for about 2 years. Before and after my surgery in 2002. I left because of all the cattiness on these boards. I thought I'd come back to see if I could get some opinions/advice on surgeons. I did get some great emails/pm's. I also got sales pitched. And I also got attacked. I was called "non-compliant" and a "basket case". Please show me my exact words where I called anyone names? I only voiced my irritation with what was clearly not the advice/opinions I was asking for in this thread. If that's more than the folks on this board can deal with, well, I will happily leave again.
When a person apologizes, generally people with some degree of social decorum accept the apology and move on. And after an apology (or two or three, even!), most people with basic social skills do not continue to disparage the person who apologized.
I do sincerely appreciate the people who emailed & pm'ed with their wonderful words & advice. I will leave this forum with yet another apology to those who were/are offended by my directness of speech. I am sorry. But I am happy to be leaving...again.
I took it as an attack as well.
While you (and a surgeon, cause let's face it -- surgeons like to cut rather than treat medically) may see your issues as being surgical, Michelle may see them as being medical, and thus possibly being fixable with correct supplementation.
And as someone else, someone who does not sell anything, makes no money off anything to do with supplementation, I agree 100% with her statements. So take that as you will. Adults DON'T convert beta-carotene efficently into retinol in the body, and that conversion rate goes down even more as we age and with the lowered amount of intestine.
As for 10 supplements per day.. well, that's nothing. Am I sorry you were misled about the amount of supplements WE would need? (Yes, I was as well, but I got over it rather than whine about it).. sure I'm sorry about it.. but 10 is minor. I take a great deal more than that just to maintain.
I do think you owe Michelle a great deal of an apology.. especially given the amount of time she spent going over your post for you.. even if you feel it was unsolicited. You simply could have said, "Thank you, but I still feel a surgical option is the best option for me at this juncture in time" and let it go but you did not. Rather, you accuse her of trying to solicit you for business. That was quite rude, despite the time and energy she spent on you, without a single reference to her business.
It is posts like this that make me think about not helping as well.
Have a nice evening, and good luck on your journey, wherever it may take you.
While you (and a surgeon, cause let's face it -- surgeons like to cut rather than treat medically) may see your issues as being surgical, Michelle may see them as being medical, and thus possibly being fixable with correct supplementation.
And as someone else, someone who does not sell anything, makes no money off anything to do with supplementation, I agree 100% with her statements. So take that as you will. Adults DON'T convert beta-carotene efficently into retinol in the body, and that conversion rate goes down even more as we age and with the lowered amount of intestine.
As for 10 supplements per day.. well, that's nothing. Am I sorry you were misled about the amount of supplements WE would need? (Yes, I was as well, but I got over it rather than whine about it).. sure I'm sorry about it.. but 10 is minor. I take a great deal more than that just to maintain.
I do think you owe Michelle a great deal of an apology.. especially given the amount of time she spent going over your post for you.. even if you feel it was unsolicited. You simply could have said, "Thank you, but I still feel a surgical option is the best option for me at this juncture in time" and let it go but you did not. Rather, you accuse her of trying to solicit you for business. That was quite rude, despite the time and energy she spent on you, without a single reference to her business.
It is posts like this that make me think about not helping as well.
Have a nice evening, and good luck on your journey, wherever it may take you.
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