Anyone fail with lapband and RNY?

I'm just wondering are there any of you out there who had lap band and it wasn't successful and also not successful at a revision to RNY?  Thanks

There are many on the DS board who have revised from bands and RNY, so you may want to ask this over there.

On March 7, 2009 at 4:02 PM Pacific Time, Bearmom wrote: There are many on the DS board who have revised from bands and RNY, so you may want to ask this over there.

 
I agree with Bearmom.  You can get ERNY but it sure doesn't seem very safe.

You can get a band after bypass but you've already traveled that road. ;o)  You can get ERNY (dangerous) or DS.  I'd really look at your DS options.  A sleeve is not a likely option for you due to the fact that you already have RNY.  They would have to take down your RNY and then do a sleeve.  I doubt you'll find a surgeon that would take that risk assuming he even could in your case.

Why are you telling someone ERNY isn't  safe? You do not know what you are talking about.
And the question was if anyone had had both lap band and  RNY, and hadn't reached goal or had regained  weight afterwards.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.

 I think she is saying that the ERNY isn't very safe because the one person who was successful with it, has such severe malabsorption (because of the 50 cm common channel), that she is continuing to have horrible side effects over one year out..  

The others (whose progress I and others have been closely monitoring) with the 75 cm common channel have been less successful in terms of weight loss, and for several of them it seems to have stopped at 6 to 9 months out, leaving some with 100+ lbs of excess weight that they still want to lose.  

So, in order for the procedure to be effective for a person with more than 50 lbs to lose, their common channel needs to be made dangerously short (under 75 cm) and this results in severe vitamin, mineral and protein deficiencies which have been difficult for experienced WLS veterans to manage as well as continuing bowel problems which still require meds (a year out).  And,  one person has written that she can no longer work in an enclosed office because of the stench which now  seeps through her pores.  Unfortunate, but true - based on what ERNY patients have written.  These same symptoms are some of the reasons that the old BPD/DS (Scopinaro) procedure is no longer performed.

The ERNY success stories are with those who only had 50 lbs or so left to lose, not 150!   So, whether or not to chose that method of revision hinges on how much the person has left to lose.   I've seen quite a few people think this ERNY was going to be  the answer to their prayers for losing the remainder of weight (100 -150 lbs+) left over when their RNY stopped working for them.  It must be heartbreaking to go through such  major open surgery, only to lose 50 lbs or so (mostly because of the pre and post-op restrictive diet)  and then have the surgery stop working again.  Theoretically, a large amount of weight could be lost with the ERNY, however, the person's common channel would have to be shortened to the point where the surgery would result in such severe side effects as to render it "unsafe".

I wouldn't venture to guess why she brought up the ERNY (maybe because there's been such much promotion of it on this board as a "panacea", but it's important for people to know about the various revision types available to them in the event both their lap bands and RNYs fail them, no?

I don't think you know every person who has ever had ERNY. You certainly don't know my story .
Tell me how you're " monitoring" people with ERNY? You have acess to people's medical files?
If you mean from the few who post here, I haven't seen the problems  you are claiming. In fact, other than VitaLady who is how many years out? 15-20? ...I think at 3 years and 7 months out, I am the oldest who posts here.

The newer revisions to ERNY have been posting postiive results, with satisfaction as far as I have read. Feel free to send me all those files that show the terrible outcomes you claim.

And let me inform you that I have lost to goal, in fact below goal and had to up my calories to gain back to the weight I liked best. I maintain with no problems and my labs are good. Like any surgery with malabsorption, attention to vitamins and supplements is key, with the neccessary tweaking now and then.

Why don't you post about your own experiences and let those with ERNY post about theirs?

Do you know that many of those with DS have a common channel of anywhere from 50cm to 200cm? Try the lab rat data for information on common channels and the malabsorption that is the entire point of DS and ERNY. 

There are sometimes personal or medical reasons WHY someone would choose or need to go to ERNY, or may choose DS if medically possible, and the person feels good about their own health risks for the DS.

Informing someone of surgical  options is all good, education is a good thing, but you should stick with what you know....did YOU have ERNY?

 First of all, I remember you have written that your RNY was done distal the first time around - you didn't revise from proximal to distal or extended.   You are NOT a revision from proximal to distal RNY.  You are not an ERNY.  I don't believe you have a 50 or 75 cm common channel.   I think you posted it was 100 to 150, which is equivalent to most who have the modern DS.   Yours is also a "fresh" distal RNY - first time RNY surgery.  I didn't follow your story because your situation does not interest me.   

I am ONLY interested in  following revisions from the failed basic proximal RNY to other surgeries - particularly the outcomes of the ERNY vs. "lapband over RNY" vs. sleeve vs. DS.   I am comparing how much excess weight is lost with each option over time.    I've noticed that the ERNY is not doing so well for those who have over 50 lbs of excess weight to lose, the jury on the lapband over RNY is still out, no one is getting RNY to sleeve revisions, and the DS is winning HANDS DOWN.  So much so that I predict many ERNY patients who still have considerable weight to lose will either be looking into revising AGAIN to the DS in a couple of years or they will give up entirely.  

You have been successful with your surgery and I mean you no disrespect.   I expect you to have a better long term outcome than those with the basic proximal RNY because you have more malabsorption to take care of any regain resulting from an increase in food intake once your pouch stretches out.   Although at only 3 years from your surgery, your "jury" is still out.   One woman on here kept her weight  off for 15 years, but then her pouch stretched out and her intestines adapted to the malabsorption and she gained back 100 lbs.   There are many more examples of this, if you take the time to read people's profiles.  It happens all the time. 

Sorry, I do not know very much about Vitalady, except that she knows her stuff regarding supplements.   She is one sharp cookie!! Like you say, she is many years out and does not post currently about how she arrived at her surgical situation on OH, like everyone else does.  She tends to concern herself with advice on how to keep one's vitamins in check.   I do believe, however, that I read on another board that she had complications that REQUIRED a lot of her intestines to be surgically altered, which resulted in her shortened common channel.    I don't think she intended to ******NY, but again, I don't know much about her personal situation.   I may be very off base.   You would have to ask her.   

I have been watching the outcomes of those who have posted on OH that they were revised from proximal RNY to distal or ERNY as a REVISION (not the first time around) - where else could I possibly get personal information on outcomes except from what people write about themselves?   (How would I possibly have access to personal medical files?  What a stupid question!!)  Maybe you think it is a good outcome to have only lost around 50 lbs at almost a year out of major open surgery, when you wanted/expected to lose 150?   Or, how about losing DOUBLE the weight you wanted to, but now you can't work in an enclosed office anymore because of the stench that you give off?   That's a success?  How about working really hard to  balance your vitamins and proteins and still coming up short at lab time?  And, this is for WLS veterans, not newbies! 

If you want to gain the same knowledge that I have, I suggest that you do your due diligence and read back through the last 2 years on the revisions board, follow some of the patients to their home boards to read more and maybe THEN you will know all that I do.   Don't forget to read all of their individual profiles too.  Then bookmark everything on your computer so that you can make comparisons over time.  Then, see if you can find them on other boards to learn more.  And, find out all about bougie sizes and how they affect weight loss success.   I will not do your homework, that is up to you.   If you are really interested, you will do it.   If not, then I guess you will continue to pick on others who DO!

I have already posted on many threads pertaining to the recent ERNY'ers progress (or lack of it).   So have others, as well as the ERNY'ers.  This is to provide non-biased info for newbies - which many of the ERNY'ers were not doing.   They have been side-stepping direct questions. They were posting on OH that they were the picture of good health, while talking about their problems elsewhere.   The actual quotes were posted by someone else - all you had to do was read them, which apparently you did not do or you would know what I am talking about!

While there are personal reasons for why someone might choose the ERNY, I have found just by reading these boards, that few patients actually do choose it.   It gets chosen for them, but in a way to make them "think" it was their decision alone.   VERY misleading!  They go in to their doctor requesting the DS and the doctor, for reasons other than the patient's best interests, uses his/her status, knowledge and powers of persuasion to manipulate the patient into the surgery that the doctor performs.   It's done every day all over the country.  

Doctors also confuse the patient using the statistics from the old BPD/DS surgery (aka Scopinaro procedure), which caused side effects similar to the short channel ERNY - in fact the woman on OH who has the 50 cm common channel was found posting on a DS problems forum off of OH and it turned out that ALL of the others posting on there about their problems had the old Scopinaro procedure (pouch and short common channel), not the MODERN DS PROCEDURE.   The ERNY is very similar to a Scopinaro procedure except  the blind stomach left in, which explains the problems some are having with it.   (The Scopinaro procedure left a larger pouch and removed the rest of the stomach.)

I just read on OH tonight where a doctor gave the patient a "choice" between the DS and the RNY, and he scared her by telling her about all the vitamin deficiencies and malabsorption she would have with the DS - so SHE chose the RNY - or so she thought.   He made her a distal, which has pretty  much the same malabsorption issues as the typical modern DS.   He used the Scopinaro procedure to scare her.   Turns out he doesn't even DO the modern DS.   She didn't even know there was a difference.  So, did she REALLY even have the "choice" he told her she had?   NO!

I just want people to become educated on how the surgeries work and know the lingo and be able to talk to their doctor using his/her terms, so that the person  knows what he or she is getting into with ANY surgery.   WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS A BAD IDEA?  

Medicine is a business, like any other and with people losing their jobs and insurance in this economy, the competition for patients is fierce and doctors aren't the altruistic people everyone thinks they are.   

BTW, my personal situation is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.  That is why I have a private profile.   I feel that  personal experiences regarding surgical outcomes are counter-productive because everyone's situation is different.    I've seen where people have nearly died from getting a lapband installed and others come through the DS with no complications at all and an easy recovery.   Some people lose 150+ lbs from a mere lapband, and others only lose only 75 from an RNY over the same length of time and starting with the same weight.   To me, one individual's personal experience is irrelevant from a research standpoint.  Therefore,  I only give out information which I have gleaned from reading and researching many outcomes.    

YOu need to stop posting period. You post nonsense, and then have nothing except " ERNYers have posted XYZ" .
 
I have read the posts by ERNYers, and I don't see what you claim. I see satisfied post-ops who are pleased with how their losses are going. And the majority are VERY EARLY OUT, only a few weeks to months. The jury is still out for most of them.

I have seen the group you refer to off of OH, and the posters are BY and LARGE BPD/DS, not the " old" BPD.

In fact, you have gone beyond whatever small sense you used to make into full-fledged lies.

From a research standpoint, reading posts from you with NO documentation means nothing. From a research standpoint, people should do their own, and not take the word of someone who says " my personal situation is none of your business". 
 

You claim to be using 'OTHER'S PERSONAL EXPERIENCES REGARDING SURGICAL
OUTCOMES"  yet think your own is irrelevent????

You wrote "To me, one individual's personal experience is irrelevant from a research standpoint.  "  yet you beat ONE  woman's supposed story to death as proof that what you keep posting is true.

I am not a revision, but the malabsorption is the same. The theory of the short common channel is the same. Also, as I have mentioned- check out the DS lab rat site, and see common channels from 50cm to 200cm. This is not an exception, but the norm. Why are you trying to mislead people about how DANGEROUS a short common channel is?  Those educated in their preceedures involving short common channels will very  well with complying to a good regimen of supplementation.

I hope you know that regardless of what I say here, or what you spread around, the people who come here have the common sense and the ability to see that you have some sort of agenda, and it has nothing to do with educating on surgical or revision options. If it were, you'd mention what they are, and then let these intelligent people read for themselves, and do the research and come to their own perfectly valid conclusions. Your opinions aren't research data, nor is it valid from that standpoint.
 

~~YOu need to stop posting period.~~

By any chance are you a Schlesinger patient?  It seems that only the Schlesinger Cheer leaders have it in their wee heads that they have some sort of ability to dictate who may and may not post in the revision forum.  What's that all about anyway?

Let's get one thing clear here, you don't have the right to tell anyone on this board who may or who may not post.  You do not own OH, you are a member here and telling others that they NEED to stop posting is beyond your ability to enforce.  Manners.... they go a long way.

StacysMom can post any damn thing she wants and you can deal with it or not, makes no difference.

~~In fact, you have gone beyond whatever small sense you used to make into full-fledged lies.~~

And another trait Schlesinger Cheer leaders seem to have in common... they need anger management class.

Seriously, it isn't wise to stomp those feeties or ball up those fisties.  It doesn't make you look very good.

I had surgery in India several years ago, and I am not a revision.
And you can whine all you like. My opinion that she needs to be accurate or go home remains the same. I don't need to enforce anything, I just put it out there.
And when you display good manners, you might be rewarded with the same.