I'm clueless.....about DS who can enlighten me....
Hi Carole,
To learn more about the DS have a look at www.dsfacts.com
For revision surgeons have a look at Vicki's list, or at the DS surgeon list here http://www.dsfacts.com/duodenal-switch-surgeons.html
If you have questions about life after DS, head on over to the DS forums, or feel free to PM me.
Best of luck,
Bev
To learn more about the DS have a look at www.dsfacts.com
For revision surgeons have a look at Vicki's list, or at the DS surgeon list here http://www.dsfacts.com/duodenal-switch-surgeons.html
If you have questions about life after DS, head on over to the DS forums, or feel free to PM me.
Best of luck,
Bev
I am unhappy.
I failed to maintain the weight loss from my rny, so I went to Dr. Schlesinger, who performed a StomaphyX. (of course, he had my permission to do so)
I am unhappy because:
He never mentioned any other method of revision was available to me prior to the Stomaphyx.
I never felt any restriction whatsoever from the start from the Stomaphyx.
I now realize that the StomaphyX has many unhappy recipients.
One year after the StomaphyX, I consulted with him about a DS. He clearly tried to dissuade me from the ds in favor of the enry. In contrast to our interaction prior to the StomaphyX, he discussed in a long conversation the numerous reasons I should not have the ds. However, he did say if I insisted, he would do a DS on me.
Now, that is his prerogative. Every surgeon has his/her opinion of what is best. And they are free to advocate for what they believe is best. However, it is clear that while Dr. Schlesinger may be an excellent revision surgeon, he is not a rny to ds advocate surgeon. He is a rny to erny surgeon-and judging from the numbers he as performed-likely an expert in that sub-specialty. (no small accomplishment) !
Within the revision to erny sub-speciality, he seems to have many happy patients. In fact, If someone was looking for a revision to the erny, they should definitely consider Dr. Schlesinger.
However, if someone wants to consider a revision from a rny to ds, they should consider a different sub-specialist-one who advocates for that procedure.
Best of luck to you in your search for a revision that suits you. And don't worry about traveling, most of us who need the services of a sub-specialist need to travel.
I failed to maintain the weight loss from my rny, so I went to Dr. Schlesinger, who performed a StomaphyX. (of course, he had my permission to do so)
I am unhappy because:
He never mentioned any other method of revision was available to me prior to the Stomaphyx.
I never felt any restriction whatsoever from the start from the Stomaphyx.
I now realize that the StomaphyX has many unhappy recipients.
One year after the StomaphyX, I consulted with him about a DS. He clearly tried to dissuade me from the ds in favor of the enry. In contrast to our interaction prior to the StomaphyX, he discussed in a long conversation the numerous reasons I should not have the ds. However, he did say if I insisted, he would do a DS on me.
Now, that is his prerogative. Every surgeon has his/her opinion of what is best. And they are free to advocate for what they believe is best. However, it is clear that while Dr. Schlesinger may be an excellent revision surgeon, he is not a rny to ds advocate surgeon. He is a rny to erny surgeon-and judging from the numbers he as performed-likely an expert in that sub-specialty. (no small accomplishment) !
Within the revision to erny sub-speciality, he seems to have many happy patients. In fact, If someone was looking for a revision to the erny, they should definitely consider Dr. Schlesinger.
However, if someone wants to consider a revision from a rny to ds, they should consider a different sub-specialist-one who advocates for that procedure.
Best of luck to you in your search for a revision that suits you. And don't worry about traveling, most of us who need the services of a sub-specialist need to travel.
StacysMom
on 2/23/09 4:02 pm
on 2/23/09 4:02 pm
lauralisi,
Thought you would be interested in seeing this;
www.obesityhelp.com/forums/AZ/3868559/Revision-RNY-to-DS/#31 076769
See, you're not the only to whom he tried to do the ol' "bait & don't switch" ! He did the same thing to "2xacharm" from Georgia. She didn't fall for it either. But, sadly, many many others have.
Thought you would be interested in seeing this;
www.obesityhelp.com/forums/AZ/3868559/Revision-RNY-to-DS/#31 076769
See, you're not the only to whom he tried to do the ol' "bait & don't switch" ! He did the same thing to "2xacharm" from Georgia. She didn't fall for it either. But, sadly, many many others have.
StacysMom
on 2/21/09 2:49 pm, edited 2/21/09 2:51 pm
on 2/21/09 2:49 pm, edited 2/21/09 2:51 pm
You are absolutely correct in your assessment! This doctor is an ERNY expert. From everything I have read here, it is the surgery he knows the best, feels comfortable with and wants to do.
IMO, he was just placating you by telling you he would do the DS revision as part of a ploy to "turn" you. I'll bet he thought you would eventually be convinced to get the ERNY and he needed more time to work on you, so he was telling you what you wanted to hear. It's a common negotiating tactic, used in business world every day.
When patients call his office asking about possible revisions, the staff gives out the info that he does EVERY kind of revision and that he does the DS. They do this to get the patient in the door. Once the patient goes into his office or even has a phone consult with him, he starts the process to convince that patient that the OPEN ERNY is the ONLY safe procedure for him/her. (It's called the "bait & don't switch") He tells ALL of them that the RNY to DS Revision is just too dangerous because he would have to reconstruct the pouch! I have read over and over again on these boards where he has done this! And it probably IS too dangerous with HIM because HE is not experienced in doing it! I also believe that it is more difficult to get insurance to pay for the RNY to DS revision than an ERNY revision.
Some of his patients who posted on this board last Fall thought Schlesinger had given them the DS, when they really had gotten an ERNY. They seemed confused. Don't know if they are happy or not. They stopped posting.
The ERNY is a "poor man's" DS. It is what RNY patients who did not know about the DS (or they would have had it the first time around) get stuck with after their RNY stops working for them. They get it because their surgeon convinces them that it's "just as good" and because it's the surgery that they do. It's not "just as good". By constructing the "sleeve", the DS surgery decreases Grehlin (hunger hormone) production by removing the greater curvature of the stomach where this hormone is produced. The ERNY leaves the blind stoma*****hurning out Grehlin 24/7, so those patients will want to eat as much as ever, they will just malabsorb more of what they eat (having even MORE stool and vitamin issues than a full-on DS'er because the ERNY common channel is made even shorter than the DS one).
There ARE doctors who specialize in RNY to DS revisions and are on the cutting edge of bariatric surgery. They reconstruct the pouch all the time. They present papers at bariatric conferences and are highly sought after. They are even pioneering possible WLS surgeries of the future, like VERGITO. These are the doctors to be seen if someone wants an RNY to DS revision. The DS board knows who they are - they have a list.
It is unfortunate that he did not inform his Stomaphyx patients (who were all self-pay, because insurance did not cover that procedure), that there were other options available to them at that time.
I wish he were the only doctor who manipulated his patients in this way, but unfortunately, he is not. There are many others. That's why it's so important for everyone to do their own research and get the surgery THEY want, not want some doctor is willing to give them.
IMO, he was just placating you by telling you he would do the DS revision as part of a ploy to "turn" you. I'll bet he thought you would eventually be convinced to get the ERNY and he needed more time to work on you, so he was telling you what you wanted to hear. It's a common negotiating tactic, used in business world every day.
When patients call his office asking about possible revisions, the staff gives out the info that he does EVERY kind of revision and that he does the DS. They do this to get the patient in the door. Once the patient goes into his office or even has a phone consult with him, he starts the process to convince that patient that the OPEN ERNY is the ONLY safe procedure for him/her. (It's called the "bait & don't switch") He tells ALL of them that the RNY to DS Revision is just too dangerous because he would have to reconstruct the pouch! I have read over and over again on these boards where he has done this! And it probably IS too dangerous with HIM because HE is not experienced in doing it! I also believe that it is more difficult to get insurance to pay for the RNY to DS revision than an ERNY revision.
Some of his patients who posted on this board last Fall thought Schlesinger had given them the DS, when they really had gotten an ERNY. They seemed confused. Don't know if they are happy or not. They stopped posting.
The ERNY is a "poor man's" DS. It is what RNY patients who did not know about the DS (or they would have had it the first time around) get stuck with after their RNY stops working for them. They get it because their surgeon convinces them that it's "just as good" and because it's the surgery that they do. It's not "just as good". By constructing the "sleeve", the DS surgery decreases Grehlin (hunger hormone) production by removing the greater curvature of the stomach where this hormone is produced. The ERNY leaves the blind stoma*****hurning out Grehlin 24/7, so those patients will want to eat as much as ever, they will just malabsorb more of what they eat (having even MORE stool and vitamin issues than a full-on DS'er because the ERNY common channel is made even shorter than the DS one).
There ARE doctors who specialize in RNY to DS revisions and are on the cutting edge of bariatric surgery. They reconstruct the pouch all the time. They present papers at bariatric conferences and are highly sought after. They are even pioneering possible WLS surgeries of the future, like VERGITO. These are the doctors to be seen if someone wants an RNY to DS revision. The DS board knows who they are - they have a list.
It is unfortunate that he did not inform his Stomaphyx patients (who were all self-pay, because insurance did not cover that procedure), that there were other options available to them at that time.
I wish he were the only doctor who manipulated his patients in this way, but unfortunately, he is not. There are many others. That's why it's so important for everyone to do their own research and get the surgery THEY want, not want some doctor is willing to give them.
Stomaphyx was exciting to many of us who were in on the promise of "it's miracle" and Dr. Schlesinger joined with Dr. Overcash and Dr. Garber in leading the way when it first hit the U.S.. From my experience, Dr. Schlesinger encouraged stomaphyx over major surgery because of it's promise for repair with such a minor fix to the patient. If it would have done the miracle claimed by the company then any doc would have been irresponsible pushing major surgery over a quick endoscopic procedure. He tried every way possible to get insurance to cover it but codiing was not available. I was scheduled for it myself when some medical issues came up that threw me into the o.r. for "open" surgery. I'm so glad I didn't bother with it or with the expense.
It is pitiful that some promote their surgery of choice and their list of fabulous surgeons by discrediting another popular surgeon. How silly to suppose that a group of people are receiving some kind of kick back for sending shout outs about a surgeon they have been impressed with. That doesn't make them deft or cheerleaders; but rather, committed to paying it forward in their own way. That the cheerleaders are cirticized is funny really. It reminds me of high school when the unpopular gals found reasons to put down the happy gals. It's soooooo time to get over ourselves!
As for the age old question that someone feels the need to keep asking on various support forums, "what about Joyce?" ....well, here's Joyce with an update: .. I have consulted with 2 other Bariatric surgeons regarding my post revision issues. One of said surgeon's is on the famous list. While he was willing to take my case; he wondered out loud why I would go elsewhere when I was already with an excellent surgeon. Those of you who have read my profile and have seen my posts in various other locations, know that I have struggled. Some of you feel like it proves some great point to repost my posts? Please know that I do not make decisions lightly and I spent 3 years prior to my revision hunting for the perfect answer to my dilema. With my specific health issues, my Erny was the best solution and I am so thankful I found an expert to take care of my procedure for me. The decision was not from his baiting me at all but from 2 other bariatric surgeon's recommendations. That I have compared my lower half to a DS is not of my creation but comes from DS surgeon's, their websites and from DS friends on other websites. A shortened common channel is similar, in spite of length differences; to either a DS or an Erny. The grehlin, the Nsaid options, the non-dumping, etc is defnitely unique to a complete DS and I have never even hinted that the Erny had those same characteristics.
Share your opinions. Post your DS lists. Invite people over to the DS forum for facts about the DS! .....Save your witch hunts for those who have truly done something evil and not for surgeon's who are committed to improving people's lives in the manner they feel is best! Or, with those of us who find positives to share about a surgeon or pcp that we have had a good experience with.
And...in case somone feels the need to throw out the tired accusation that I work for Dr. Schlesinger.....just know that I am excited to announce that I just volunteered to work "with him" by faciliating his Revision Support Group (which will be open to ANY revisions from the state of AZ)! .... With that "volunteer" position, I also facilitate a graduate support group for his competition: Dr. Jilario Juarez and Dr. Daniel Fang. I also facilitate a support group at another program and have been asked to run a group for a Banner hospital program. They are all competitors of one another. I do not receive any payment other than my "pay it forward" quota getting filled! ..... I am employed however by one of the most amazing plastic surgeon's in the state of AZ: Dr. Mazaheri! My apologies if that is too "cheerleady/positive" for some of you! ....And...if someone feels the need to point out that I have changed jobs in the past 6 years; thus supposedly making me less credible....I'm like, WHAT? I am over 50 years old and work in areas that I LOVE. If some door opens that looks better and fun and is with my population of people then I'm not going to hesitate! I'm not building a resume any longer. I'm following my heart and that leads me to working with WLS buds!
Would I have an Erny again? (never as my 1st surgery but absolutely as my Revision).....Do I wish I had DS? YES! as my 1st surgery but not possible as my revision soooo.....oh well....so glad I had the Erny option with an expert!
Anyway....just throwing my take on the same old negative chatter that seems to resurface. It's my right to share my .02 whether it's too perky or not!
It is pitiful that some promote their surgery of choice and their list of fabulous surgeons by discrediting another popular surgeon. How silly to suppose that a group of people are receiving some kind of kick back for sending shout outs about a surgeon they have been impressed with. That doesn't make them deft or cheerleaders; but rather, committed to paying it forward in their own way. That the cheerleaders are cirticized is funny really. It reminds me of high school when the unpopular gals found reasons to put down the happy gals. It's soooooo time to get over ourselves!
As for the age old question that someone feels the need to keep asking on various support forums, "what about Joyce?" ....well, here's Joyce with an update: .. I have consulted with 2 other Bariatric surgeons regarding my post revision issues. One of said surgeon's is on the famous list. While he was willing to take my case; he wondered out loud why I would go elsewhere when I was already with an excellent surgeon. Those of you who have read my profile and have seen my posts in various other locations, know that I have struggled. Some of you feel like it proves some great point to repost my posts? Please know that I do not make decisions lightly and I spent 3 years prior to my revision hunting for the perfect answer to my dilema. With my specific health issues, my Erny was the best solution and I am so thankful I found an expert to take care of my procedure for me. The decision was not from his baiting me at all but from 2 other bariatric surgeon's recommendations. That I have compared my lower half to a DS is not of my creation but comes from DS surgeon's, their websites and from DS friends on other websites. A shortened common channel is similar, in spite of length differences; to either a DS or an Erny. The grehlin, the Nsaid options, the non-dumping, etc is defnitely unique to a complete DS and I have never even hinted that the Erny had those same characteristics.
Share your opinions. Post your DS lists. Invite people over to the DS forum for facts about the DS! .....Save your witch hunts for those who have truly done something evil and not for surgeon's who are committed to improving people's lives in the manner they feel is best! Or, with those of us who find positives to share about a surgeon or pcp that we have had a good experience with.
And...in case somone feels the need to throw out the tired accusation that I work for Dr. Schlesinger.....just know that I am excited to announce that I just volunteered to work "with him" by faciliating his Revision Support Group (which will be open to ANY revisions from the state of AZ)! .... With that "volunteer" position, I also facilitate a graduate support group for his competition: Dr. Jilario Juarez and Dr. Daniel Fang. I also facilitate a support group at another program and have been asked to run a group for a Banner hospital program. They are all competitors of one another. I do not receive any payment other than my "pay it forward" quota getting filled! ..... I am employed however by one of the most amazing plastic surgeon's in the state of AZ: Dr. Mazaheri! My apologies if that is too "cheerleady/positive" for some of you! ....And...if someone feels the need to point out that I have changed jobs in the past 6 years; thus supposedly making me less credible....I'm like, WHAT? I am over 50 years old and work in areas that I LOVE. If some door opens that looks better and fun and is with my population of people then I'm not going to hesitate! I'm not building a resume any longer. I'm following my heart and that leads me to working with WLS buds!
Would I have an Erny again? (never as my 1st surgery but absolutely as my Revision).....Do I wish I had DS? YES! as my 1st surgery but not possible as my revision soooo.....oh well....so glad I had the Erny option with an expert!
Anyway....just throwing my take on the same old negative chatter that seems to resurface. It's my right to share my .02 whether it's too perky or not!
Joyce Rny 2/11/03-> ERny 12/26/07-> Duodenal Switch 5/12/2010
www.dsfacts.com , www.dssurgery.com , & www.duodenalswitch.com
Hi Carole!
This seems like kind of a hijack because I'm not going to tell you which surgeon to go to - being on another continent I'm not really much help in that department!
I did have a lap band though, and after a couple of years of no restriction, too much restriction, reflux etc etc I decided to look elsewhere. In my case I chose DS because it has the best results for long term weight loss - it is a bigger surgery than the band, but second time round I wanted to be sure that it would work. It was 98% sure of curing my diabetes as well, which was important to me.
I had the band taken out first, then waited a few months for my stomach to heal (not all surgeons do it this way), then had the DS last April. What it involves firstly is having your stomach made into a smaller size, like a banana shape. The excess goes in the bin (unlike the RNY where it hangs around still). Mine had a 1oz capacity, and this felt really tiny at first - true restriction (a few mouthfuls) at last! Despite being a lightweight and revision I lost 25% of my excess weight in the first month, which is encouraging after what we've been through.
The second part of the op is the duodenal switch part. Basically you're replumbed so that your food goes one way and the enzymes that can break it down go another! They meet at a common point, in my case for about 100cm (normally they mix for 1000cm). Because they only have a short time to mix, you only digest 20% of fat, 50% of protein and 80% of complex carbs. This makes most normal, fatty food (like bacon) diet food without you having to try. And things like meat and eggs will go down ok, even in the mornings...
I can't pretend it isnt a scary op - it takes quite a while and you need a really good surgeon, but you have the comfort that around 80% of people are considered 'successes' even five years out. This is because you always have the replumbing - even when your stomach gets bigger (like the RNY pouch and the VSG does) you have that to rely on.
If you want a better idea of peoples experiences come over to the DS board and ask any question you like - there are quite a few ex-bandsters on there and we would be happy to help because is seems much harder second time round!
This seems like kind of a hijack because I'm not going to tell you which surgeon to go to - being on another continent I'm not really much help in that department!
I did have a lap band though, and after a couple of years of no restriction, too much restriction, reflux etc etc I decided to look elsewhere. In my case I chose DS because it has the best results for long term weight loss - it is a bigger surgery than the band, but second time round I wanted to be sure that it would work. It was 98% sure of curing my diabetes as well, which was important to me.
I had the band taken out first, then waited a few months for my stomach to heal (not all surgeons do it this way), then had the DS last April. What it involves firstly is having your stomach made into a smaller size, like a banana shape. The excess goes in the bin (unlike the RNY where it hangs around still). Mine had a 1oz capacity, and this felt really tiny at first - true restriction (a few mouthfuls) at last! Despite being a lightweight and revision I lost 25% of my excess weight in the first month, which is encouraging after what we've been through.
The second part of the op is the duodenal switch part. Basically you're replumbed so that your food goes one way and the enzymes that can break it down go another! They meet at a common point, in my case for about 100cm (normally they mix for 1000cm). Because they only have a short time to mix, you only digest 20% of fat, 50% of protein and 80% of complex carbs. This makes most normal, fatty food (like bacon) diet food without you having to try. And things like meat and eggs will go down ok, even in the mornings...
I can't pretend it isnt a scary op - it takes quite a while and you need a really good surgeon, but you have the comfort that around 80% of people are considered 'successes' even five years out. This is because you always have the replumbing - even when your stomach gets bigger (like the RNY pouch and the VSG does) you have that to rely on.
If you want a better idea of peoples experiences come over to the DS board and ask any question you like - there are quite a few ex-bandsters on there and we would be happy to help because is seems much harder second time round!
DS revision from failed lapband
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