Failure and research - slightly OT
Fellow revisioners...
I've been catching up on the posts (been a bit busy in the real world this week) and I have two unrelated questions to ask you.
The first, is where do you think the failure/blame lies in your need to have a revision? I had lap band first time round, and would put it at 60:40 - 60% the bands fault (for not filling properly, being awkward) and 40% me for not always trying hard enough...Just wondered what you thought about yours.
Secondly, something that strikes me from listening to this board is how clueless we all are, doctors included, about revisions and long-term success. There seems to be a shortage of proper research - one lady on here said she felt like a wls experiment, so many things had been 'tried out' on her over the years. Considering that there are so many overweight people in the world you'd think someone would want to invest in finding the best surgery and best combination of revisions - not like the half-baked program that seems to be going on for ROSE and Stomaphyx ('does it work/doesn't it work...oh well we'll give it a whirl and charge you anyway'). Do you feel short-changed again by the medical profession?
Sal (I'll stop frothing now...)
I've been catching up on the posts (been a bit busy in the real world this week) and I have two unrelated questions to ask you.
The first, is where do you think the failure/blame lies in your need to have a revision? I had lap band first time round, and would put it at 60:40 - 60% the bands fault (for not filling properly, being awkward) and 40% me for not always trying hard enough...Just wondered what you thought about yours.
Secondly, something that strikes me from listening to this board is how clueless we all are, doctors included, about revisions and long-term success. There seems to be a shortage of proper research - one lady on here said she felt like a wls experiment, so many things had been 'tried out' on her over the years. Considering that there are so many overweight people in the world you'd think someone would want to invest in finding the best surgery and best combination of revisions - not like the half-baked program that seems to be going on for ROSE and Stomaphyx ('does it work/doesn't it work...oh well we'll give it a whirl and charge you anyway'). Do you feel short-changed again by the medical profession?
Sal (I'll stop frothing now...)
DS revision from failed lapband
I am not a revision patient, however, I just wanted to chime in on this.
I think the failure/blame rate is 50:50. 50% my fault because I jumped into having RNY without really researching all my options. Though at the time I was only given 2 options and I knew I would muck up the lap band and fast. I was so Morbidly Obese and miserable, I thought this would be my ticket to feeling halfway normal. I never thought about fitting into normal sized clothes, or worried about fitting into a booth. My health was my top priority, I was in such severe pain I couldn't work, couldn't stand, sit or lay comfortably. The thought of regain never once crossed my mind. I was one of those "100 lbs gone forever" people. I will give this surgery full credit for helping me better my health. 50% surgery. I hate the stoma and the idea it's so easily stretched out, I hate the thought of planning meals, etc.
I was 20 years old, and perhaps not thinking long term............... I wish I would've waited to make sure this was the best thing for me....
I really wish the surgeon would've told me the facts, about regain, and about how even if your surgery is perfect we all have a small bounce back weight gain. I think if surgeons are honest with us, it only helps long term. I hate when I see a surgeon recommend lap band for a patient who has a lot of weight to lose. I think if you have a BMI of 50 or above you do not need a lap band. If you're gonna go under the knife, go all out.. lol make it work ya know........
Sorry for rambling,
Katrina
I think the failure/blame rate is 50:50. 50% my fault because I jumped into having RNY without really researching all my options. Though at the time I was only given 2 options and I knew I would muck up the lap band and fast. I was so Morbidly Obese and miserable, I thought this would be my ticket to feeling halfway normal. I never thought about fitting into normal sized clothes, or worried about fitting into a booth. My health was my top priority, I was in such severe pain I couldn't work, couldn't stand, sit or lay comfortably. The thought of regain never once crossed my mind. I was one of those "100 lbs gone forever" people. I will give this surgery full credit for helping me better my health. 50% surgery. I hate the stoma and the idea it's so easily stretched out, I hate the thought of planning meals, etc.
I was 20 years old, and perhaps not thinking long term............... I wish I would've waited to make sure this was the best thing for me....
I really wish the surgeon would've told me the facts, about regain, and about how even if your surgery is perfect we all have a small bounce back weight gain. I think if surgeons are honest with us, it only helps long term. I hate when I see a surgeon recommend lap band for a patient who has a lot of weight to lose. I think if you have a BMI of 50 or above you do not need a lap band. If you're gonna go under the knife, go all out.. lol make it work ya know........
Sorry for rambling,
Katrina
starrgirrl
on 12/19/08 12:24 am - los angeles, CA
on 12/19/08 12:24 am - los angeles, CA
Sal-
I hear your frustration about the knowledge base available regarding long-term data for WLS (including revisions). The reality is that the data is being assembled as we go. Each of us is contributing to the learning curve. I've been reading the bariatric medical journals over these last few months, and the bariatric community continues to evolve.
For something like open heart surgery or knee surgery, there are reams of data about long term effectiveness. But for bariatric surgery -- it's just not there yet. These boards are filled with enthusiastic people that are just getting their first WLS... and they usually continue posting over the next 18 months or so. That time brings with it tremendous success (for most, at least). However, there are not very many long-timers that come back here to report their results. I suspect it is because a good percentage are struggling with weight regain. I had my surgery in 2004, I've checked in with several other people I know that had their surgery around the same time as me, and we've all experienced weight regain of some sort (between us we've had bypass and banding).
It's unclear how much data the medical community is collecting. For instance, I know my original doctor doesn't know about my band removal and subsequent weight regain, so I'm not part of his stats. I tried calling to let his office know, but they seemed uninterested.
I'm now considering the sleeve... The longest study found in the bariatric journals reflects upon patients that are 3 years out of surgery -- that's not a very long time for a surgery that will hopefully be effective for the next 30 to 40 years of our lives.
The truth is, each of us is a pioneer of medical science. We are helping the bariatric community (ourselves included) learn how to help heal the experience of obesity. It is a complex matter that is part chemical, physiological, emotional and environmental.
Every bariatric surgeon I've met is truly committed to helping their patients experience freedom from obesity. However, we're just not at the place yet where there's a long-term solution that has been proven to be successful ten or twenty years after the initial surgery -- that's what we're all helping them discern.
There's still lots to learn. Every year results in new insights and improvements.
All the best with your journey!
I hear your frustration about the knowledge base available regarding long-term data for WLS (including revisions). The reality is that the data is being assembled as we go. Each of us is contributing to the learning curve. I've been reading the bariatric medical journals over these last few months, and the bariatric community continues to evolve.
For something like open heart surgery or knee surgery, there are reams of data about long term effectiveness. But for bariatric surgery -- it's just not there yet. These boards are filled with enthusiastic people that are just getting their first WLS... and they usually continue posting over the next 18 months or so. That time brings with it tremendous success (for most, at least). However, there are not very many long-timers that come back here to report their results. I suspect it is because a good percentage are struggling with weight regain. I had my surgery in 2004, I've checked in with several other people I know that had their surgery around the same time as me, and we've all experienced weight regain of some sort (between us we've had bypass and banding).
It's unclear how much data the medical community is collecting. For instance, I know my original doctor doesn't know about my band removal and subsequent weight regain, so I'm not part of his stats. I tried calling to let his office know, but they seemed uninterested.
I'm now considering the sleeve... The longest study found in the bariatric journals reflects upon patients that are 3 years out of surgery -- that's not a very long time for a surgery that will hopefully be effective for the next 30 to 40 years of our lives.
The truth is, each of us is a pioneer of medical science. We are helping the bariatric community (ourselves included) learn how to help heal the experience of obesity. It is a complex matter that is part chemical, physiological, emotional and environmental.
Every bariatric surgeon I've met is truly committed to helping their patients experience freedom from obesity. However, we're just not at the place yet where there's a long-term solution that has been proven to be successful ten or twenty years after the initial surgery -- that's what we're all helping them discern.
There's still lots to learn. Every year results in new insights and improvements.
All the best with your journey!
That is a great point..
Most of the time after 18 months - 2 years you don't see/hear from a lot of the regulars you saw before.
Weight regain is so scary and disappointing.. It's like "here I went and put myself through surgery and I'm gaining.." It almost makes you feel hopeless.
I believe bariatric surgery will keep getting better and better, with new improvements and procedures. WIth continuined procedures, they will learn what works and what simply does not work. In a sense we're like a learning curve.....
Most of the time after 18 months - 2 years you don't see/hear from a lot of the regulars you saw before.
Weight regain is so scary and disappointing.. It's like "here I went and put myself through surgery and I'm gaining.." It almost makes you feel hopeless.
I believe bariatric surgery will keep getting better and better, with new improvements and procedures. WIth continuined procedures, they will learn what works and what simply does not work. In a sense we're like a learning curve.....
Hmm, well, I understand what you say but I still don't think its good enough. It seems very piecemeal and disorganised.
What particularly annoys me is that in the UK at least the government bangs on and on about the evils of obesity/how we are all doomed etc etc but they won't pay for research into things that work rather than spend their time lecturing us about calorie intake and exercise.
Surgeons themselves I have no argument with, its more the philosophy behind it - possibly still the idea that fat people a) deserve what they get and b) will blame themselves rather than be critical of medical knowledge. Bugs me. A lot.
What particularly annoys me is that in the UK at least the government bangs on and on about the evils of obesity/how we are all doomed etc etc but they won't pay for research into things that work rather than spend their time lecturing us about calorie intake and exercise.
Surgeons themselves I have no argument with, its more the philosophy behind it - possibly still the idea that fat people a) deserve what they get and b) will blame themselves rather than be critical of medical knowledge. Bugs me. A lot.
DS revision from failed lapband
I can only relay my experience with a VBG from 1994. Lost 120 lbs, but due to daily vomiting, tearing of staple line, and scarring/adhesions- I developed worsening stomach pain and severe GERD with aspiration. My research led me to studies regarding VBG failure and revision to RNY. One study showed an almost 30% failure raterequiring revision. I was shocked when on my first post op visit the surgeon asked me how many times I was vomiting daily- he NEVER told me it was EXPECTED! I am extremely happy with my RNY as I can eat comfortably and healthily again. My revision is directly related to procedural complications-NOT non compliance. I was able to maintain over 100 lb loss for 14 years- but it was misery. I was also amazed to touch base with others on this site who experienced the exact same issues.
starrgirrl
on 12/19/08 9:39 am - los angeles, CA
on 12/19/08 9:39 am - los angeles, CA
Hi Sal-
I can appreciate the frustration -- especially when faced with a doctor that recommends diet and exercise... Oy!
Now more than ever, I truly beleive that a big component of obesity is body chemistry. I'm currently reading Kay Sheppard's book on Food Addiction -- it reads like a roadmap of my relationship with food and weight. She is a part of the Food Addicts Anonymous movement. She believes that food addiction stems from the brain's response to highly processed foods. Her approach (and the approach of others in the movement) preach abstinence from the addictive foods. Here's a link if you care to check it out: www.kaysheppard.com/articles/whatisfa.htm
It's so hard to know what to do. The reason I'm researching this so much is that I've already had one surgery (the band). I figure I have one more shot at surgery -- if that doesn't work, then I don't expect that they'll let me have a third. So I'm contemplating if I want to try and hang in there for a few more years to see how the VGS patients do over time.
For some reason it's harder for me the second time to say yes. The first time I was pumped and enthusiastic. I loved my band and the freedom it provided! However, now that I know that surgery may not be a "forever" solution -- I'm a bit more cautious. I'm 46 years old... so I need a solution that will take me gracefully into my 80s cuz I'm planning on hanging around for a long while.
Whew~! God bless us all.
I can appreciate the frustration -- especially when faced with a doctor that recommends diet and exercise... Oy!
Now more than ever, I truly beleive that a big component of obesity is body chemistry. I'm currently reading Kay Sheppard's book on Food Addiction -- it reads like a roadmap of my relationship with food and weight. She is a part of the Food Addicts Anonymous movement. She believes that food addiction stems from the brain's response to highly processed foods. Her approach (and the approach of others in the movement) preach abstinence from the addictive foods. Here's a link if you care to check it out: www.kaysheppard.com/articles/whatisfa.htm
It's so hard to know what to do. The reason I'm researching this so much is that I've already had one surgery (the band). I figure I have one more shot at surgery -- if that doesn't work, then I don't expect that they'll let me have a third. So I'm contemplating if I want to try and hang in there for a few more years to see how the VGS patients do over time.
For some reason it's harder for me the second time to say yes. The first time I was pumped and enthusiastic. I loved my band and the freedom it provided! However, now that I know that surgery may not be a "forever" solution -- I'm a bit more cautious. I'm 46 years old... so I need a solution that will take me gracefully into my 80s cuz I'm planning on hanging around for a long while.
Whew~! God bless us all.
On December 18, 2008 at 1:47 PM Pacific Time, PekinSal wrote:
Fellow revisioners...I've been catching up on the posts (been a bit busy in the real world this week) and I have two unrelated questions to ask you.
The first, is where do you think the failure/blame lies in your need to have a revision? I had lap band first time round, and would put it at 60:40 - 60% the bands fault (for not filling properly, being awkward) and 40% me for not always trying hard enough...Just wondered what you thought about yours.
Secondly, something that strikes me from listening to this board is how clueless we all are, doctors included, about revisions and long-term success. There seems to be a shortage of proper research - one lady on here said she felt like a wls experiment, so many things had been 'tried out' on her over the years. Considering that there are so many overweight people in the world you'd think someone would want to invest in finding the best surgery and best combination of revisions - not like the half-baked program that seems to be going on for ROSE and Stomaphyx ('does it work/doesn't it work...oh well we'll give it a whirl and charge you anyway'). Do you feel short-changed again by the medical profession?
Sal (I'll stop frothing now...)
I blame the band 100% for my issues. I lost weight well. I lost it all and fairly quickly with proper diet and a ton of exercise. I did all the right things. The reason I had a revision was because I just couldn't stand the band one more day. Getting stuck on WATER with an unfilled band.
I think for me the issue was simple. You know how some people get a little extra restriction during TOM, stress, weather, etc? I didn't just get a little more restriction, I'd obstruct. It was always an extreme compared to others. I never had a sweet spot. I kept my band underfilled or unfilled my whole weight loss journey. One day I could eat an entire steak and the next day I would get stuck on water. It was insanity.
I knew I needed WLS but bypass just wasn't for me. Sleeves didn't have any solid studies at the time I had my original surgery, as soon as I discovered the band and did my research, I was all over it. While I say that I blame the band 100% for my revision to a sleeve I have to clarify that I pretty well knew I was a guinea pig to some degree. The band hasn't been around for an entire generation to see what will happen long term. With that said, Inamed was, and still is, hiding a great deal of information and studies. They are not fully honest about what they know with the band. That company has the morality of a stray alley cat.
I am among those who are not having any problems with regain at this point. I'm 3 years and 5 months out and maintaining easily. I'm not a revision.
I have a distal RNY, what's now being called an extended RNY with a 200cm common channel. I lost weight easily and dropped a little too low for a few months and have been at my current weight for months.
I rely on the surgery to help me with portions but have to check myself on calories and resist sweets because they trigger an urge to overeat in huge amounts. Huge for me means eating constantly once I start on trigger foods.
I credit the surgery with my loss, but myself with keeping it off. Keeping trigger food out of my house and out of my mouth is my job now. Remembering how awful my life was for years helps me. The pain, and poor health and how others viewed me keeps me on track. I recal how people looked as I walked down the aisle of an airplane, knowing they were praying I wasn't going to sit beside them and take up their space.
I'm not being arrogant, because I haven't yet left this world as a smaller, healthier person, so I know it's not over and done yet. Regain can happen, so I am vigilent.
I have a distal RNY, what's now being called an extended RNY with a 200cm common channel. I lost weight easily and dropped a little too low for a few months and have been at my current weight for months.
I rely on the surgery to help me with portions but have to check myself on calories and resist sweets because they trigger an urge to overeat in huge amounts. Huge for me means eating constantly once I start on trigger foods.
I credit the surgery with my loss, but myself with keeping it off. Keeping trigger food out of my house and out of my mouth is my job now. Remembering how awful my life was for years helps me. The pain, and poor health and how others viewed me keeps me on track. I recal how people looked as I walked down the aisle of an airplane, knowing they were praying I wasn't going to sit beside them and take up their space.
I'm not being arrogant, because I haven't yet left this world as a smaller, healthier person, so I know it's not over and done yet. Regain can happen, so I am vigilent.
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