Mom's of Older (5+ yr old) girls....

So I am curious. There is a problem. Well I think its a problem. I have no where to ask but here....

My sister has a six yr old daughter.  She has never been "mom of the year" as the baby daddy left her shortly after she was born and sis relyed on everyone else to "raise" the kid. Well that isnt the point just had to give you some history...

For the last year or so, I have noticed a behavior that I feel to be inappropriate (sp?) for a 6 yr old. She is "humping" pillows/dolls/blankets, whatever.  Now I know that children explore their bodies and even as infants they "find" things...but, I am catching her doing this more and more. I feel like at her AGE this "masturbation" is coming a little early and her innocence has been taken a bit. Her mom told me that she has asked her where she learned this to which her reply was "her aunt ( her dad's new wifes little sister - who is 12) taught her this 'game' and it made her feel good".

Normally (I baby sit her 3 days a week while her mom is at work) if I see her doing this, I tell her to stop and go about my business, as I feel it isnt my place. Today, that was not the case, my daughter who is 13 months old was standing not 3 feet from her while she was on my kids bed doing this!! I LOST MY STUFF! I told her to go to the kitchen, picked up Claudia and took her into the nursery to change her diaper while I thought of how to handle it. (Of course my first reaction was to spank her ass and tell her this is not acceptable - Im very proud to say I didnt do that!)

Instead I explained to her that it is her body and if she wants to do things like that in the privacy of her own room at her house, that was up to her mama, but at MY house, this was NOT an acceptable behavior and she was NOT to do it at all. To say the least, her feelings were a little hurt not only that I caught her, but that I was talking to her and she was embarrased. Well she was not crying, but sulking and when her mom came to the door to get her, boy did she turn on the water works.  Went home to tell her mother how I called her a liar, and she hated me and never wanted to come to my house again etc. (she is in this stage of playing people against others, the other day in walmart when i wouldnt carry her *im 7 months pregnant* she said she was going to "tell her mama" to which my reply was, tell her, shoot, we can call her right now")

So anyway, the main reason for this REALLY LONG tangent is to get your opinions. Do you think I am out of line for talking to her about this since it did happen at my house, with my child who likes to mimic everything her cousin does standing no more than 3 ft from her. Or should I have just said "stop" and told her mom and *trusted* that she would do something about it (this has been the route before and it hasnt stopped yet) ?

You are a better woman than me LOL. I would have sat down with my sister/brother/cousin/friend and had a good ole' Southern "Come to Jesus" meeting. Lay it all out there, and let her know what is going on and that it is inappropriate. Children need boundaries for all situations.

I should add that I have a 13 yr old son, and he NEVER did any of this stuff. He "touched" himself in that normal, exploratory manner when he was younger, but nothing sexual. I am pregnant with a girl for my second, and I am in full agreement with you that the extent of her behavior is far too advanced to just be considered"normal". She's already stated that it's been a learned behavior. You are in the "right' here to be concerned and your sister can not see that this 12 yr old has taught her 6 yr old daughter something and doesn't question why the hell a 12 yr old is teaching a child this behavior, then your sister has a huge problem.

Your house, your rules.

well thanks. I am glad to see someone respond.

Sister and I did have a round of SEVERAL emails (as its easier for us to communicate without it being a screaming match) and the ENTIRE time she is trying to find a way to make me feel bad for reprimanding (Sp?) her daughter as to the potention 'damage' her daughters actions could have on my daughter. ugh, its annoying. she wants me to be concerned with her child, yet she doesnt have to be with mine?

i did tell her it was best for her to find other childcare. i wont be doing it. as you said, my house my rules.

btw i am as far along as you, except this is my boy!

I'm not surprised that your sister is trying to deflect her responsbilities to address her daughter's inappropriate behavior. Honestly, whoever this 12 yr old girl is that taught her this "game" sounds like the source of the issue. And, I would be highly concerned.

For situations like this, I really believe this quote is so "right on".
"Acknowledgement is a no-kidding, unvarnished, bottom-line, truthful confrontation with yourself about what you are doing or not doing, or what you are putting up with in your life that is destructive. It's not some pious, phoney-baloney, half-hearted rendition of what you think they want to hear. Nor is it a watered-down, politically correct 'confession' that you think will buy you closure at the expense of truth. I mean brutal reality: slapping yourself in the face and admitting what you are doing to screw up your life. This also means admitting that you are getting payoffs for what you're doing, however sick or subtle those payoffs are." Phillip McGraw from Life Strategies

She is getting some payoff for NOT confronting this other 12 yr old girl's family, and getting to the bottom of it. I know way too many women that tolerate things especially when they rely on other people to "parent/raise" their children. There is a payoff somewhere, be it she doesn't want to cause issues, or she's getting childcare from them, or some other payoff that is NOT willing to let go of in the event she was to confront the situation/parties involved.

Honestly If I were her mom I would be getting to the bottom of this usually when a 6yo is doing things of this sort other inappropriate things have happened. Most normal 6yo's do not do this and I have heard of a little girl who was playing or doing this sort of thing and molestation being the reason. I understand you being upset and would not want my child around this sort of behavior either.

I agree w previous poster....this sexual behavior sounds far to advanced to not consider molestation. What 12year old teaches a 6 year old how to masterbate....and how did she "teach" her? All sounds very suspect to me. BTW... I think u handled the situation perfectly...that is something one does in the privacy of their home and your niece needed to hear that. Good for u.

 well maybe i'm completely ignorant because i don't have children yet. but from what i remember of my old childhood and of other little kids i've seen, its normal for young kids to "masturbate". they don't see it as sexual. they're exploring their bodies and they find something that makes them feel good. i did it as a kid, my mom caught me (in my own bed) and made me feel very dirty for having done it.  i remember a friend of my parents had a young daughter and she was always doing inappropriate things that seemed sexual. i wouldn't blow this out of proportion. go online and read up on it.

i think the worst thing you could do, this is just my opinion, is to make them feel shameful. because let me tell you that sticks with you your whole life. its good that you sat and explained this was not ok behavior for your house. its a really rough position for the parents because you can't have your kids acting that way, it makes others feel really uncomfortable. but you have to tread that thin line as to not make them feel what they're doing is wrong. i think you just have to calmly explain that you don't do those things around other people. there's a time and a place.  maybe in the bath or maybe at bedtime. just let them know its not wrong to ever do it, but there's a proper time. 


also i wouldn't jump to her being molested or anything. kids do that stuff with each other all the time. how many of us played house?? pshh i can't even tell you all the things i did back then. i didn't know what the hell i was doing. i just knew it felt good. i'm not saying don't be vigilant. definitely keep an eye on it because you never know where it could be coming from. i'm just saying don't jump to that right away.

but again, this is just my two scents. take it for what its worth. 

I tend to agree more with Meli T. on this. My sister used to "hump" the furniture when she was really young... like between 4 and 6 because it felt good and was a stress reliever for her. I never did. My mom used to make her feel very ashamed and she has major issues with her sexual identity and body image to this day. Its having a terrible affect on her marriage. She claims it all goes back to how dirty our mom made her feel. And as far as both of us know, neither one of us was ever sexually abused. It is normal for some kids to be more sexualized than others.

On the other hand though, it is also a parent's responsiblity to protect their children and make sure they are safe. Its not ok for your neice to masterbate in front of your little one, because that can also have a lasting affect on her.

Good luck with this situation...

I agree that masturbation is NOT the problem. and in NO WAY did I make her feel bad for "humping" anything... I did however express my dissatisfaction with her choice of location, and that my daughter was present. I have asked several of my "mom" friends as well as my MIL who is a nurse (not that it makes a difference) but all of them agree that I did great in handling the situation. I have a copy of our (my sister and my) convo from yesterday....this is how it goes...

its all from facebook so please, weigh in your opinions after reading...let me know if they change.

Marla Miller

    well staci, i was NOT cruel to her. i calmly explained to her that i dont want claudia to learn that behavior, and if she wanted to do that at home, that wasnt up to me. she was more hurt that I caught her and was talkin to her about it than she was "ashamed" of doing it. and she was NOT crying when you came up, she was sulking...but she turned on the water works and played you like she always does when someone else is getting onto her.

    what would you have done had the role been reversed, and your 1 yr old wanted to mimic EVERYTHING my older child does? I dont think me saying, "that is something you do in private at your own home" is a bad thing. it was better than me spanking her...which was my first initial reaction, but instead i sent her to the kitchen while i gave myself time to calm down.

Staci Adkins

    what would you do if you child was crying in hysterics telling me she hated your sister and never wanted to go back that her lala called her a lier? You would have been mad as well what you should have done is just told me. that is what i would have done to you. there are some things that a parent has to do. Marla she rarely does it at my house because i have talked to her about it. i feel like in that instance it is my job as a mother to handle this. i have talked to her about not teaching her friends the "game" like she was taught. but like i said that is my job as a parent and i felt as a parent i had every right to you to say something i am not getting into a ******g contest with you regarding this or drawling this fight out. i am saying lets both me mature about this.

Marla Miller

    staci, she cries in hysterics to you all the time. she tried to play that "im telling my mama" **** with me the other day at walmart. I get that its your job as a parent to punish if need be, but its my job as Claudia's mother to protect her. and Im not sorry that i think this is something that isnt appropriate for my daughter to see or mimic. I dont think its okay that a "game" was taught to victoria.

    I feel like a part of her innocence has been taken and SOMEONE should be held responsible for it. be it the other little girl, her sister, mother whoever. I feel very strongly about it and will NOT allow it to happen in my house. Like i said, I have done what you said to this point, and told her to stop (almost twice a day since I started watching her) and today I had just had enough.

    and if she is "scared" of me or doesnt want to be around me, that is something her and i need to talk about and figure out. she knows i love her, i was scolding her and it hurt her feelings....i NEVER hurt her, and never would! and if you dont know that, then you are crazy. I even told her while i was talking to her "victoria, I love you, but i cant let you teach that to claudia because I could never forgive you" and now thinking about it, i prob could have worded that differently...and I will talk to her about it and let her know that i will always love her...but some things, I just cant let go. and if claudia were to learn that...i wouldnt forgive myself.
Staci Adkins

    exactly you should have worded it differently and not told her she was lying! if you say something like that marla she will always think you think she is lying. and maybe you should read up a little about this because i have talked to Victoria's doctor about this and i have done a lot of research on it. and it is normal for children to do this. we may not like it and trust me i dont but it is something that happens. and it is my place to say something to her. but i am over this like i said i will not get in a ******g contest with you. noone is perfect and we both have our faults but it is my place as victorias parent to handle this not yours as an aunt. there are things you wont let me do with Claudia hell you wont even let me baby sit her and i a more than capable to do that so i think you should respect my wishes when i say this is something i should handle and if you can't then you its best that you don****ch victoria anymore.

Marla Miller

    ok, so what would you have me do if she does it again...sitting her in the living room doesnt work, cause she does it there too. should i make her sit in a chair and not move if i have to take the baby to the bath tub, or whatever?

    and its your call on if i watch her, I could use the money, but honestly...I do it more for having Claudia around Victoria and her not seeing her as something she has to be jealous of. I want her to realize Claudia isnt the enemy and trying to take her place with everyone, like she does...

Staci Adkins

    i will have to think about it at this point you embarrassed victoria so much by this and really really hurt her feelings i dont know what to do she doesn't even want to go to your house and she told her dad about it even after i talked to her and told her not to. he texted me and asked me what happened. i told him not to worry about it. he is not involved in her life enough to worry about what happened. i dont need anymore stress or drama. i have a lot on me as it is. so i will think about what i want and need to do and what is most of all best for my daughter. and btw i think i have always respected your wishes as a parent and have done what you asked me to when i had claudia. I joke and act like i am going to feed her junk food but i never do. for the most part all i do is play with her and yes i even changed a poopy butt of hers. so maybe you shouldnt worry about someone who "parents" like you nobody is perfect and everyone makes mistakes even you. and look for someone to watch victoria that respects your wishes and will do what you ask when taking care of your daughter. and you should also know that the "best" day cares arent always the best. we have worked in some pretty good day cares and i am a firm believer in its not the day care that should be judged but the teachers themselves. and it is hard to put your child in a day care especially when they cant express what is going on and how there teacher treats them. so no matter how good the day care is you will always worry about your children because until they are around 3-4 it is hard for your child to really tell you what is going on in day care.

Marla Miller

    well im sorry i embarrassed her, but I dont know what other way to get my point across with her. I dont think anything I did was out of line, as that is how I would have handled it if it had been my daughter. I am actually quite proud of myself that I didnt just spank her which was my first reaction to want to do. But i actually gave myself time to cool down....(which was better than what ever happened to either of us) and I even explained to her that if she wanted to do things like that she could do it in private...it was something that needed to be done in private. She shouldnt be afraid to explore her body or what have you she just needs to know a time and a place.

    I do apologize for not "bringing it to your attention sooner" but I assumed you had already spoken to her about it, and maybe she just figured since all I ever did was say "stop" that she could keep doing it cause everyone else lets it happen.

    I am honestly ANGRY that Tonis allowed this to happen. Like I said I feel like she has lost some of her "childishness" and its his fault for allowing it to happen in the first place. SO PLEASE KNOW that where I am coming from is as Claudia's mom and not wanting her to have that taken away from her. When Victoria was doing it not 3 feet from my daughter....I just lost it and saw red. Again, I did allow myself to calm down.

Maybe it is best she have another care giver until this is under control and I dont have to worry about Claudia being exposed to it.

if you notice, throughout our entire convo, she basically blames me for being cruel, and how I should "fix" her daughters feelings, yet she cares NOTHING about what effects this could have on my daughter.