Bush Won't Pull Troops in Iraq

This is a beautiful post. And I can't help but notice that not one person who disagrees w/ your position has offered a counter-argument. There was a congressman on the news last night who put the "if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops" argument in its place. That argument uses the soldiers to score political points ( and thank goodness, it's not working). I think the soldiers are worth more than that. If "freedom" truly is what this war is about, then the soldiers know full well that they are fighting so that this long-overdue discussion can take place in Congress. After all, what point is there in fighting for freedom if no one ever exercises that freedom?

I was interested in something you said, and forgive my ignorance about this (I'm asking in all sincerity), but how does this war make money?

Well, there are a lot of companies that have gotten contracts for rebuilding infrastructure in Iraq. Most of these contracts have been obtained without any formal bidding process (which is standard for government contracts). So in other words, where companies would normally have to bid for contracts, these companies have not had to do so. Halliburton, who has ties w/ V.P. Cheney, has gotten a lot of these contracts, as well as one of their subsidiaries, Kellogg Brown & Root. Oh, and there's about $12 billion that's completely unaccounted for. Yep, that's $12 billion.

Wow........that is really eye opening!! It's a shame. There's such crookedness going on. Makes me sick. I never said I was a Bush fan. I really used to be like in 2000 but not so much anymore.

Believe it or not, the exit polls from November's (2006) election did not show that the Iraq invasion was the #1 issue among voters. The number 1 issue of people going to the polls in November of 2006 was "corruption." Iraq came in second place.

More info on the fraud seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/303946_iraqwaste16.html this needs no "www"

I'm on my way out to the gym. If you aren't being sarcastic I'd love to share the articles I've read about this. PM me about it. It's more complicated than what I feel like writing on this board; I wrote my mini novel on an earlier post and I'm still exhausted from it! lol I'm honestly surprised I'm even wasting my time here... it feels like deaf ears most of the time. None of us seem to want to change our minds... just spout out our opinions, myself included. I see very few questions as to what and why people have these opinions, and I really rather try and stick to that. It's really hard for me to read some of this stuff and be so personally touched and involved by/with it, and not respond. I don't imagine I will participate on this board much longer... it's pretty ugly and makes me feel pretty ugly.

Hey Stacy sorry for the late response....... I will take it paragraph by paragraph.... I'm interested in understanding your thinking on the following: "Point blank....we need to be there, these people are a huge thret to us and also the innocent people over there need our help. If we backed out now, we will be in serious trouble" Can you explain where you get/got your information that brought you to this conclusion? Which people are a threat to us? Are the innocent people the Iraqi civilians? How are we helping them? Why would we be in serious trouble if we backed out now? What would having more troops do to help the situation, and how do you think we can support sending those troops and still remain safe from terrorist groups still remaining from 911, terrorist groups that have formed in response to our invasion of Iraq, and places like N. Korea and other nuclear forces? My response~I have never once said I was for troop escalation...I have only said we shouldn't pull the troops, now a few more people over there would help give some rest to the ones that are there....lighten the work load. Can you honestly say if we just yanked the troops that those people wouldn't have so much hate for us for coming in and messing up their country and not helping them rebuild? That would be the same as bin laden sending his "troops" into our country...messing up New York...and us going over them and blowing there land up to find the hateful ******* I for one want to feel safe in this country. I also agree N.Korea is a threat but it is doubtful we will go there (only after talking to my boyfriend, who just enlisted for his 2nd term of 6 years in the airforce) My husband and I are both against troop escalation. Most of the guys I've talked with at Walter Reed are against troop escalation. Many, if not most, of the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and dependents I know are against troop escalation. Many of these people agreed with the decision to go to war in Iraq in the first place , and their minds have been changed. I did not agree with going to war with Iraq. I'm from the school that says we should focus on the specific 'terrorists' who attacked us. They are in many countries, not associated solely with Iraq. We actually trained some of the 911 terrorists. We continue to train terrorists at Ft.Benning, where my dad was trained as a paratrooper for the Vietnam war. My response~Normally I would agree with you, but you have to remember Sadam is a mass murderer, I commend anyone who would send that man to hell. He also had ties with Bin Laden....and before you ask, yes we should get anyone who is funding him. Can you imagine what it would be like to sign on with the military and put your life in the hands of the government? It's an interesting thing. I find that most of the military people I talk with don't even like to be involved or informed about politics. While it's hard for me personally to swallow, I can understand and respect this because I know first hand how it feels to have the government have control over your LIFE in the biggest (okay, second biggest. My husband has the biggest) sense of the word. Bush's administration has a responsibility to those who have 'signed on' as much as we (I have to follow them too) have a responsibility to follow orders. They have not lived up to their responsibilities by any stretch of the imagination. My response~Yes I can imagine.......But as Chris (boyfriend mentioned above) says...HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS SIGNING UP FOR....now if you fall for that free college thing, then you lack serious common sense. I didn't sign up for the military, because I don't feel like being the governments ***** for 4-6 years and quite frankly I am a chicken, I don't wanna take the chance at dieing. But for all the service men and women out there, I commend their courage to fight for their country and make the sacrifice to give up there lifes for so many years. Have you ever talked with a recruiter? It's hard to enter into something with an open mind when you already have it made up, but I suggest going in with an 18 year old and just listening. They don't talk about dieing. They talk about how they can give you a career. Check out recruiters in uneducated areas especially... it's amazing the things they say. Yes, the people who sign on with the military know they have a potential for going to war. They have to trust the government in this, and in this case the government has failed them. Why do people have an easier time talking about the individual soldiers responsibility to his (or her) country and not discussing our countries responsibilities to our soldiers? That seems so grotesquely backwards to me. My response~ AGIN THIS IS WHERE COMMON SENSE IS....enough said It's our LIVES, and we are belittled by people who say, "you knew what you were getting into." No, most of us didn't know our government would wage a war for money in the name of democracy, freedom, and national security. I know officers who have worked extensively with the Iraqi government, they will flat out admit this war is not about freedom, security, liberating the Iraqi's and/or all the other propaganda; it's about money. EVERY person I know who has worked with the Iraqi government AND with the people have been totally disheartened. Those 'in the know' are disgusted. Bush does not listen to his military advisers, he listens to his non-military neocon executive advisers who are making a killing... if you'll forgive the pun My response~ Since when has our government not been about kickbacks???? Why would anyone think anything has changed?? I always knew it, and no matter what president you get in office, they are gonna play the same game with companies out there.....Money rules the world and it always will....it isn't changeable and it really doesn't matter who is controlling america. Do you know that certain vaccines are now being required due to the fact that certain drug companies have ties and are funding certain politicians in office?? That is the way of the government....I would suggest to get used to it, I can't see it ever changing. Ok stopping the paragraph by paragraph and giving my opinion~ Do I think our administration is perfect..........hell no!!!!!!!!!!! No administration will ever be perfect. Do I trust our President...Yep, sure do. I voted for him. Do I like the way N ew Orleans was handled....nope. But last I checked, we are all humans and humans make mistakes. BTW George W. is a human so yes he can make mistakes too, should we burn him on a cross for it? I hope not cause I have made my fair share of them and would hate to have that happen to me. You tell me how pulling the troops would not harm us....just curious on your views.

Hey, I just got the email that you responded to my post. I haven't been playing over here for a reason... It's just not worth it. I'm doing a lot of political action stuff on a larger scale and spending a lot of time at Walter Reed. It just feels more productive to me. I just can't spend the kind of energy I was spending here on arguing the points with someone who will never see it the way I do... I'm sure you've felt the same way before. I'm willing to bet No Surrender could give you some similar responses to what I'd come up with and she seems to be more passionate about sharing her views on this board. Best wishes, Stacie

Jess, do you know anything about the region and what it was like before we invaded? Saddam Hussein was an evil, evil man. No one will disagree with that. But you know that he had no connections with Al Qaeda, right? You know that the WMDs that Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld said Hussein had were not there, right? You know that there was little to no terrorist activity in Iraq before the invasion, right? What is happening there now is a result of our invasion. The region was reasonably stable before we went in w/ "shock and awe". There was absolutely no threat to Americans until after we went in there. Once Hussein was out of power, the Sunni's and the Shiites got to fighting w/ each other for power and control of the government. The Kurds are involved too, but not so much as the other two. What will happen, if we don't get these people to sit down and talk to each other is that Iran will support the Shiites, Saudi Arabia and the UAE will support the Sunni, and Turkey will support the Kurds, and you know what... full blown war in the middle east with guess who as the sitting duck.... Israel. Our actions destabilized the region. And you know what? I've got about 30 pages of reports on my desk that show that our President and his administration were most definitely warned that this would happen--and that he was warned by people who most definitely would know (senior uniformed military, former military, military officials, top generals....). Every moment we spend there, we create more people who hate America, American military and American citizens. As much as appreciate our military men and women, and their sacrifice, I think they are best used elsewhere like in Afganistan where the Taliban is gaining control again. We left a job unfinished there in order to create chaos in Iraq. Our military men and women did what they were told to do, but they were sent to do something that could not be done. And that is because the President doesn't value them enough (and if you don't believe that, take a look at Bush's latest budget proposal that cuts veteran's medical benefits at at time when more and more of them will be coming back from duty and will be needing medical benefits).