CAN YOU STRETCH YOUR POUCH AND OTHER INFO

Repost of a repost: Post Date: 7/11/07 12:54 am

Ok, I have been sneaking around on other forums as I am apt to do. This was posted by DxE, it has so much valuable info I thought we might like it. It rocks!! This man is a wealth of info and experience! Post Date: 7/10/07 6:02 pm Last Edit: 7/10/07 10:01 pm

Here’s One that we see All the Time--- "Stretching the Pouch?" There’s some conflicting info out there about- "Stretching the Pouch" – And - "Stretching the Stoma." Some of it is complete ‘urban legend’ Aimed at explaining why one procedure is ‘better’ than another. Typically this information is passed on from someone Who did not have the procedure they are ‘slamming,’ and know little other than- "What I’ve heard is…." That’s where all of that crap like-- "Most people gain it back…" "RNY’ers can Never chew gum, eat red meat, or take pills again…" And such come from. I’ve heard- "Fill up a baggie with coke and seal it up---It’ll POP!" Well, if it had a throat sized opening at the top, And a small pencil diameter opening in the bottom, Then it would be a fairly good model for the experiment. The coke would just run on through the way it does with the pouch. That said, With a normal stomach Or one that the procedure leaves the pyloric valve intact, like the DS, The carbonation stays in the stomach long enough to let some of the fizz Collect and exit as a normal burp. With the RNY, a bunch of the carbonation runs on into the intestines Before "breaking up" or collecting And the result is extra Poots in the making. Even increase pressure in intestines. But as to "stretching the pouch?" Only if you can stretch a balloon By blowing it up with two holes in it. Stoma stretching Is very possible and can be the result of "Mal-formation of the stoma" during the original surgical procedure- (the doc didn’t make it the right size to begin with) And it can be "stretched," usually by forcing it open 1.) Through repetitive weeks of vomiting/muscular contractions, Or more likely, 2.) continued Over-eating to the point of painfully distending the pouch. In this case, the patient has "caused" the problem with the tool, But even then, it still may work to achieve and maintain weight loss. I’m in no way an expert at all. I did have A LOT of extra time on my hands Early on due to complications to do nothing but research and even directly e-mail Different Bariatric Clinics/Doctors and take part in a lot of On-Line chats with Bariatric Surgeons. Many do these, and they are very valuable. They even sift through posted transcripts for those who missed recent chats such as-- http://www.communitymemorial.com/chat/bariatric_chat.cfm or- http://doctorsimpson.com/chattranscripts.php Many are accessible and the Surgeons are great about answering questions To those who sign up for their newsletters and such. Like- http://www.lapsf.com/office-information.php Having 9 months of "down time" to ask questions, Got a lot of answers. So, The "Stretching" question? ------------ Equally reputable Docs have stated different opinions on it. Dr. D. Rodriguez, founder of the Texas Bariatric Center, since 1998....Says- "It is expected and appropriate that the stomach pouch will enlarge somewhat as the months pass after gastric bypass. Some of this enlargement is an actual increase in size, and some represents a softening (regaining of elasticity) of the pouch and its outlet." Similarly, Dr. Latham Flanagan, MD – (website is at The Oregon Center for Bariatric Surgery) Indicates that the average size of the mature pouch is 5.5 ounces. He also states that – "…sizes ranging from 3 to 9 ounces have NO IMPACT on the person's success in weight loss.  The pouch actually grows rather than stretching as most think. For most of the patients that have the surgery, the pouch stops growing at about 6 oz and the largest is about 9 oz." Compare this to normal stomach sizes between 24 to 64 ounces. (still, quite the effective TOOL. Yes?) Flanagan was the one who presented the "Cottage Cheese Test" To the June 2000 meeting of The American Society for Bariatric Surgery. (ASBS)  Although he had been using it for quite some time. Still- Albert Wetter, M.D., of the Mills-Peninsula's Bariatric Surgery Program, Among the first to participate in the American Society of Bariatric Surgeons’ "Center of Excellence designation process," presents the pouch as "Stretchable."- According to Wetter- "It is very important that you protect your stomach pouch by not overeating or drinking too much fluid at one time. It's normal for the pouch to stretch  somewhat over time, but frequent stretching will increase stomach capacity and lead to weight gain.  This defeats the purpose of gastric bypass surgery." Faced with conflicting info from reputable sources, I asked my Doc- "What’s Up?" He’s also part of a ‘flagship’ program and designated a "Center of Excellence." His response? "…Not every patient is a University Professor digging for the studies to back up every detail.   So, it’s easier for some Surgeons to just say-  Don’t do ANYTHING that will defeat your success!  Sometimes that’s easier and it’s more effective that loading them down with a bunch of statistical data.  If a Surgeon has a patient or two who have to go to the hospital to have gum removed from their Stomas, he’ll begin telling all of his patients- Don’t Chew Gum! Rather than tell them not to swallow their gum or – …be careful because I’ve seen a few cases where patients have had this problem." So, "Stretching the Pouch" – And - "Stretching the Stoma." The answer isn’t so much do they stretch or even what size are they. The Real answer is that the FUNCTIONAL size varies with many factors. Such as- Time of day, The amount of time taken to eat, And (most importantly) the type of food eaten. It is expected and appropriate that the pouch will handle A much smaller amount of solid food (i.e. chicken) than mushy or liquid stuff like soup. The "Cottage Cheese Test?" It is meant to be a standardized, reproducible measurement Of the physical size of the stomach pouch in a person Who has undergone a gastric bypass procedure. If you are curious about your Pouch size, here it is------- Purchase a container of small curd low-fat cottage cheese. Begin the test with a full container, And perform the test in the morning before eating anything else (this will be your breakfast on that day). Eat fairly quickly until you feel full (less than five minutes). Note that the small soft curds do not require much chewing. The idea with the rapid eating is to fill the pouch Before there is much time for food to flow out of it. After eating your "fill" of cottage cheese, (just to first feeling of full, not to pain.) You will be left with a partially eaten container that has empty space Where cottage cheese used to be. You can measure the remaining amount and calculate the amount. Dr. Flanagan’s Protocol suggested- "Start with a measured amount of water (16 ounces, for example), And pour water into the partially empty container of cottage cheese Until the water is level with the original top level of the product." Obviously, the amount of water poured into the container, Equals the functional size of the pouch. You will probably find that the "cottage cheese" size of your pouch Is bigger than your surgeon told you he/she made it at the time of surgery. But "worry about this causing problem with weight loss?" Remember the statistics- 17% of RNY patients reach their Ideal Body Weight. 68 % of RNY Patients Lose between 75% to 99% of their excess body weight. *(That’s 85% of All RNY patients reaching a BMI in the NORMAL RANGE!) 10% or 10 in 100 lose an average of 63% of their excess body weight. *(most of these will be Overweight like the rest of the non-Morbidly Obese People in the country) 5% or 5 in 100 RNY patients lose less than half of their excess body weight. Further, Most Bariatric Surgeons state that – "…it is not the pouch size that causes people to regain weight, but that they never learn how to use their pouch properly.  The pouch is misused by grazing throughout the day, drinking hi-calorie liquids, or eating soft easily digestible foods that are high in carbohydrate and fat, such as fried potatoes, sweets, breads, and pasta." Worried that "this weight loss tool will stop working and I will resort back to my old self." Very Common Worry. As common out here as Deep Navels! 5 out of a Hundred may have that problem. But not due to it becoming "Stretched Out." Yes? Continue using the first year to Re-Learn new eating habits And Food choices, and later on down the line, It will be easier to just Keep doing what you’ve gotten in the habit of doing. That’s a pretty effective tool. "Keep doing something Habitually…." It’s how most of us got Obese to start with. Yes? Forgive my long-winded ramble as an answer. I just prefer more info than the simple- "Don’t Do ANYTHING that will Defeat your Success!" One last bit---- "The pouch" is made from the upper most portion of the stomach The extreme Proximal / Lesser Curvature portion Comprised of the ‘Cardia’ and a portion of the ‘Fundus.’ Which is the least "Stretchy" and more muscular of the stomach tissue. Hope this helps- Best Wishes- Dx

i have been in awe of dxe for years!!!!!!!!!!!!1

He rocks, and so do you! Hugs!

This makes sense...it goes along witht he info from Kaye Bailey about the Pouch Test....in that when we eat things that are easy to eat, like chips and drink anything with it.....it becomes like a "Slurry" and goes right on through us and leaves all the calories.....Thanks for sharing with us. Marti

i broke down and made a slurry the other day- some gingersnaps and coffee--yummmm! bad margo..i know!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Girlfriend...I just as bad as you.....my bad is wine and tortilla  chips.....Love, Marti

How did YOU know about my binge food?? Love them!! Olivia is not alowed to bring them to my home anymore..

Marti, I always love reading your post, although I do not always say anything. Our experiences are not always the same, but the lessons are always there. Hugs and a salute to you,grand lady.

Thanks Linda.  This sure is something I've wondered about. Hugs,

You are most welcome, my dear friend. We must not freak out when we can eat 3 ozs more food, for this is normal. We just have to make sure it is the RIGHT 3 ozs..my NUT said do it with protein. Love ya!