Is there ANYONE here who is NOT getting surgery?

Donna, sorry, but you are simply wrong. There are better ways. It's not an assumption. It's a cold, hard, fact. Just because you say so doesn't make it true.

Of course not all thinks work exactly the same for everyone. But you are mentioning people with very rare conditions for the most part - there will always be exceptions. There are plenty of people who can't have WLS, too - does that make it less effective? I was assuming we are taking it as a given that people who are medically precluded from doing a certain thing aren't taken into account when discussing the thing in general. You need to let got of your attachment to WLS and put aside your reluctance to realize that fasting is every bit as effective in every way. Maybe (*MAYBE!*) WLS is a little faster at first - I haven't looked into that.

You are also not considering the many, many people who are either too poor or too uninsured to get WLS. It certainly does them no good. You do them no service by pushing WLS.

You know as well as I do that so far there aren't any 10-year longitudinal studies about fasting because it's only been fairly recently that people have finally realized (once again) that it's by far the best method of weight loss and health. There's plenty of data on animal testing, though if you're skeptical o0w well it transfers to humans, well, I agree that it's definitely not a direct relationship. Mice are not humans. But it's interesting. But I sure don't buy the argument that "people have not studied X as much as Y, so X must not work, or be inferior". That's nonsense. I certainly hope they do more studies, and I bet some are underway, but who knows when they will be released.

I also submit that there are fewer studies because there's no money to be made on fasting. WLS has a huge medical-industrial complex behind it who are happy to fund expensive long term studies so they can get more people under the knife and profit more. There's no money in fasting - you can't sell that many books on it, it doesn't require supplements, or surgery, or expensive foods, or classes, or anything like that. So no one has any incentive to fund extended study.

I'm not making assumptions, you are. I understand the underlying mechanisms as well as you do, or better.

Why do people still turn to surgery? because it gives them an "out". Even though it isn't, it's seen as a Magic Bullet. I strongly bout many of them have seriously tried IF and given it a real chance. Do you ever counsel them to do that before surgery? I doubt it. They also have a huge industry of doctors, nutritionists, counselors, and hospital dog-and-pony shows trying to convince them to get surgery, falsely claiming it's the only option.

You just doing the IF for 6 months.

Do it successfully for 6+ years with no major regain and then I may think you have a valid points.

I was overweight most of my life. Most, not all. Because I would work really hard do anything possible, lose ALL the excess weight.... Only to gain it back 2-3 years later. There was not one diet methods I did not try, including IF with Keto-paleo.

And every single time I would regain not only what I lost but I few more pounds.

At 47 I realized that my body got used to all of the diet, fasting, cleanses, etc etc...and I would lose 2-3 lbs only to regain it.

Did I like the idea of wls? Nope. First time I thought about it - I read and research all and decided I don't want it, that I could do it all on my own. And I did. I lost the excessive fat, and got really trim and fit, with muscles. I was very active person. But within a few years, with back issues, steroids injections, age, etc, I slowly regained what I lost.

RNY or any WLS should be the last resort. It was for me. I lost all my excess weight within 10 months and maintain it. I had a temporary weight regain, but I dealt with that.

I have some complications,- but I think that I had my WLS too late in my life. Damage was already done to my body with yoyo dieting over my 35 years ..

I have been maintaining my weight loss by following simple steps. I eat until I am full, but eat mindfully. I eat proteins and fat and some carbs.

I follow IF most of the time, but I have a freedom of eating what my body needs.

I can eat a reasonable portion. I eat cheese, and meats, eggs, good fat (butter) or nuts.

The RNY allows me to be satisfied with smaller portions. I don't need to gorge myself.

WLS is a major help for obesity. I think of WLS as major step in helping the obesity. At the present time - WLS offer people a chance of losing weight and keeping it off. It is a tool.

Like my cataract surgery that removed and replaced my lenses. Or Lasik surgery that help me see better.

I wish you well. But I am saddened by your judgement. I hope you can be one of the 5% who can lose weight by diet and exercise and maintain that long-term.

I used to be like you. Until one day my body refused to lose any weight and keeping it off. And I chose to have WLS. Because that gave me a chance to be normal weight.

You have not tried it all or done it all. Lose and maintain for at least 6 years. Then try to help others.

I'm glad you've finally found something that works for you and you are satisfied with it. I guess I'm just not as easily satisfied.

It's too bad you never tried IF, because you can do it at any age, from 15 to 95. And it's easy to keep up long term. It amuses me that so many people seem to think that amount of time has anything to do with it. I mean, yes, the true test is to keep weight off long term, but it's also dumb to say "I started earlier than you have so I've been doing X longer. because you have been doing Y for less time, that means it can't work long term."

And, yes, I have in fact done, or tried, it all - all except surgery. Not an option, and not necessary. For anyone. But since what's done is done and can't be reversed, I'm glad it at least worked out well for you.

I know my answer to you was long, and looks like you skip part of it when I started that I did IF and fasting (a few times even longer term fasting- is 28 days) and I got results first few times I was doing it, but it was not sustainable in long term. Eventually my body reverted to storing calories - by changing my hormonal response and I gained all the weight. And then it was close to impossible to lose it.

Btw- fading is really hard on adrenal system. My eventually gave up. Right now - from you very entuzjazm and energy you have - I can see myself in you when I was literally getting high on cortisone while fasting. I've been there - done that.

You better start reading on adrenal stress due to fasting. Very interesting stuff, scary stuff. I personally think that my HPPA system was partially damage during my frequent fasting and diets. They still work, but barely.

Again - do it for 6 years, without regain of a significant amount of weight and then come back. Show long term results.

Fyi- in maintenance long term I am currently following IF not to lose weight but to be healthy. If is very natural way of eating. Very intuitive and rewarding.

You can lose weight on any diet plan. High fat, low fat, high carb, low carb, high protein, KETO, IF or any other plan. Losing weight is the easy part.

Keeping it off is the hard part. About 50% of weight loss surgery patients have regained 50% of their lost weight by year five.

About 95% of non-weight-loss surgery dieters have regained 100% of their lost weight by year five.

Your chance of keeping weight off long term is 5% of less with surgery.

In addition, re-routing your intestines is taking the easy way out. It is far easier to lose weight when you lose your hunger and can no longer eat much at a time.

I'm curious, can you say what you have in mind when you say that someone can lose weight on a high-carb diet?

I think that until you can provide the research that IF is as effective as WLS LONG TERM, then nobody here is going to take you very seriously. I've lost weight with IF, Atkins, Low Fat, you name it. I've kept it off for greater than 6 months even, but never long term. You can call me weak minded, duped, whatever you want, but the fact is, that I chose WLS because of the research that showed long term results. It's not an easy or light decision to make, and many of us wait years to make the decision, so that we can try one last method to try to get the weight off and keep it off. In the meantime, we face people like you, who tell us all the reason we are wrong, duped, shills. Yeah, may I suggest a book called How to Win Friends and Influence People?

Funny you should mention that book. I read it when I was 16 and many times since. Great book and very helpful all through my life. However, it is a book about just what the title says. Sometimes making friends and getting people to like you isn't the best thing to do. People often don't like you when you tell them true things that they don't want to hear, but they need to hear them anyways. I'm sorry that the truths I'm speaking have to be painful to you, but it's still important.

I don't think you're shills or dupes or anything. I think you were manipulated by a greedy industry for its own profit, and unfortunately the news about better ways hasn't yet gotten nearly as far as it needs to go. That isn't your fault.

How's that working for you? Mind you business and I'll mind mine.

As many of you will I'm sure be glad to hear, I am giving up and leaving. The one thing we agree on it that I will never convince you. You'll all made your decisions already and they can't be reversed, which is very sad to me but can't be changed now. I was hoping to reach some pre-surgical people, but sadly again, there aren't any. I'm sad that so many of you are rude and insulting to people who say things you disagree with even when they're true. I'm sad that there is such a clear lack of knowledge about important issues. I'm sad that there are so many myths and incorrect information about fasting out there.

Mostly I'm sad that so many people today choose to remain immune to any opinion or knowledge that they don't already agree with and refuse to consider new things. Clinging blindly to your old way of thinking in the face of new evidence is really bad. But, once again, I'm not going to solve that problem here either, so I bid you adieu.

I'm sure many of you will want to write extended rants defending your positions. Save your time. I won't see them. I'm unsubscribing from this thread and not returning to this site (waits for cheers to subside). Have fun discussing issues only with people who already agree with you. Write all you want, but I'll never see it.

Adieu!