Is there ANYONE here who is NOT getting surgery?

Donna, thank you for your information and a calm response. I, too, have read literally thousands of articles about obesity, weight loss, bariatric surgery, and fasting (plus many books).

I never said that fasting was superior to WLS in any way other than "you don't need to have surgery to get the same results". In that way, I do consider it superior - vastly superior. They do have the same metabolic changes.

However, you say "fasting is not permanent", and you are very wrong about that. It['s absolutely permanent for me and zillions of others. I love it, and not just because it makes me lose lots of weight, cures my diabetes, and be healthier in general. I love all the time it saves me meal planning, shopping, cooking, and cleaning up. I love not having to worry about "what's for dinner?" every night because often the answer is "nothing". I love planning far fewer meals because I can plan whatever I want without counting calories or fat or anything else, really (though I do generally try to stay pretty low carb). So, in many practical ways, fasting is far superior. I get the same results and my guts stay where they belong. I consider that to be a huge win.

If you think "the difference between fasting and surgery are night and day", then you should say why. I don't just take your word for it. Prove it. The articles you posted only prove that WLS does cause metabolic changes, which I already agreed with here many times. It does. So does fasting. None of the links you posted say that fasting does not have those same changes.

I also definitely dispute your claim that 95% of WLS patients keep the weight off. I'm sure that 95% keep some off, but it's almost never their lowest weight. Most people lose a whole lot of weight initially, and it very often creeps back up. Maybe it doesn't get back to where it was, but some weight regain is very common. So, yes, maybe they stay lower weight than when they started, but frequently it ends up being not very much lower over the long run.

The changes form fasting are permanent as long as you keep eating right, which is the case for just about anything, including WLS. The only way WLS changes are "permanent" is because it's irreversible and you can never take it back - you are "permanently" forced to eat the same restricted diet. That's like saying that having your toes amputated makes them permanently immune to frostbite. It may be true, but I'd rather just wear warm socks all the time.

As of speed of changes, I haven't looked at data about that, so I will reserve judgment. Maybe WLS is a little bit faster. But I doubt by very much, if at all. Just a few weeks after I started IF, my blood sugars have all been well within the "normal" range and I am going to soon ask my doctor to gradually start taking me off my diabetes meds. So I doubt that is much faster. As for losing weight, you say it is faster with WLS, and I haven't looked at that. But I'd be surprised if it were true, unless you can explain to me how one can lose weight faster by eating something rather than nothing.

Anyways, thanks for an interesting and well-informed answer.

Haters gonna hate. If you don't agree or care for what's being said here or what this site represents, simply leave. Why waste time going on and on trying to defend your opinion? You're looking for sites related to help with obesity. Obviously, your methods and ways of thinking have not been successful. **** or get off the pot. Stay and learn something or leave and keep attempting to do it your way. Good luck in your endeavors. All the best.

I'm not a hater, I'm a helper. I'm here to warn people who haven't already cut up their bodies that there are better ways to get the same results. There's certainly nothing here for me to "learn", other than what I already knew - people are so scared that they might have been wrong that they take it personally when they find out they are and react like children.

Questioning your assumptions and providing links to scientific research is "reacting like a child?"

Damn, must be some smart kiddos out there.

Questioning assumptions in a mean, nasty, hateful way , like almost everyone did, is reacting like a child. And you are the only one who posted any scientific links. The ones that were valid weren't applicable to the discussion.

You posted links and arguments that show WLS works, but you were responding to an argument that I wasn't making. I never said it didn't work. I said there are other, nonsurgical ways to get the exact same results.

Mean, nasty and hateful? You mean, like accusing people of being WLS shills, being suckered in by Big Bariatric, and not understanding or having an interest in their own health?

You know that resorting to name calling show that you are losing an argument, getting frustrated because people respond to you not in a way you expect.

Let me point to you that a lot of us who had WLS tried everything or close to everything. Including fadtfas. Fasting and study of fasting is real really old science. Old does not mean wrong. I believe in fasting. I believe in system detox, etc etc. But sometimes it is not enough.

WLS surgery does change hormonal response. Different than fasting.

I probably read more books and studies and research on fasting that you can imagine there is. I was doing fasting and IF in my 30's. Getting good results, and not realized I was slowly damaging my HPAA.

Do what you long term. Lose the weight, keep it off for years... Then tell people about that. 6 months - is nothing. You are still high on hormones due to fasting. High energy, enthusiastic. Good for you.

This is why you are getting what you consider to be a hostile response. There are not better ways to get results - that's a gross assumption.

I consider that fasting is good for many people and not everyone; and conversely, the same with surgery. This may be a shock - however not all diets or methods of health work for every single human being. A ketogenic diet would severely damage someone with acute intermittent porphyria, for instance. You need to let go of your attachments to fasting and put aside your reluctance to consider other opinions. If fasting is superior, provide an analysis of 10-year results from weight loss surgery patients with 10-year results from people who have only fasted, for instance, assuming both groups have similar morbid obesity.

If you are going to make blanket assumptions without understanding the underlying mechanisms behind both fasting and surgery, you are not going to get very far in convincing others of your perspective. Right now you are basically turning away people from fasting, quite honestly, rather than letting people know.

I am a counselor, and people have already tried fasting before they turn to surgery in many cases. You might want to take a look at why they still turn to surgery, rather than continuing to engage in blanket statements without actual understanding as to why people get surgery.

Well said, Donna!

Thank you, Donna!! I know, for ME, when I see "blanket statements", I am immediately turned off