Email re Collagen Protein Bullets from Unjury

I would like some feedback and views on this email as I know next to nothing about good v bad protein Important New Protein Quality Guidelines from Surgeons If you have been reading our updates, you know we have regularly advised that: - whey protein ISOLATE is better than whey protein concentrate - collagen-based products such as the test tube products get very low    protein quality scores.  Profect and New-Whey are calculated    to have a PDCAAS of 5 or 6 out of a possible 100 (1). Historically, we have perhaps been the only ones saying this. Now the bariatric surgeons, dietitians, and nurses have just issued Protein Quality Guidelines, and everything they recommend is consistent with what we have said. While many many products do not meet the guidelines, you should know that for every single new guideline, UNJURY matches it 100%, fully, completely, exactly, and it always has.  While the full set of guidelines should become available on the web soon, here are some of the key messages from the guidelines (2). 1.  It’s not enough to know how much protein you are getting (how many grams).       You also have to look at the amino acid profile to know about the       QUALITY of the protein. (Some proteins have almost zero value.) 2.  The PDCAAS scoring is the superior way to rate protein quality       (it looks at the levels of each indispensable amino acid). 3.   Doctors, nurses and dietitians are advised to use Caution       when recommending any type of collagen-based protein       supplement (for example, the “test tube” products).       So you too should use Caution when using products with       hydrolyzed collagen. 4.   Whey protein ISOLATE is better than whey protein concentrate.        (Concentrate has more lactose, and gives you less protein.) 5.   Recommended daily grams of (high quality) protein:        70 grams per day during weight loss and low calorie diets. The society issuing the guidelines is the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery (ASMBS), and almost certainly your surgeon, dietitian and nurse are members.  The guidelines were announced Monday June 16, 2008 at the ASMBS annual meeting. You can be sure that most of the products, those which don’t fully meet the guidelines, will try to make it sound like they do, or will try to  say that the guidelines are not important. But here are 2 easy rules to remember: 1:    “Caution on Collagen”        (e.g. about 94% of the protein in the test tubes is collagen) 2:   Whey Protein ISOLATE is better than Whey Protein Concentrate Here are three key messages from the guidelines: A.  “The PDCAAS score indicates the overall quality of a protein.” B.  “The PDCAAS score indicates the body’s ability to use that product for protein synthesis.”  (Protein synthesis is necessary for making every cell in your body.) C.  You can lose lean body mass (for example muscle and organs including the heart) even if you get the right number of grams of protein, if the protein doesn’t have each and every Indispensable Amino Acid IN THE RIGHT AMOUNT. In other words, even if you used 3 of the “test tubes” every day, you can still lose muscle and organ tissue because the test tubes have a deficiency in indispensable amino acids.  (1)   Thanks in advance

Good Morning, Kristin!  Well, it's about time that "someone in the know" published some info on this. I've been telling WLS patients this, for about a year. I work in a vitamin/supplement store and about a year ago, I was told (by several different reps, from a few very reputable sports nutrition companies) that collegic protein is great for body builders, which is the market they were shooting for when they started making these, but not at all suited for WLS people. WHY? Because the collegic protein is NOT 100% Whey protein isolate. Which is the only type of protein that we will absorb properly. And this was coming from the sales reps of the companies, that were manufacturing and promoting these test tubes! Like I said, these were invented for a body builder to throw in his gym bag and drink while he's lifting. (by the way, the timed released collengic protein in them, is perfect for a guy working out) So......in my humble opinion....the study is right on.  This girl drinks the Syntrax protein (the new chocolate truffle is awesome!). No test tubes for me! I like my hair on my head, thank you!  Have a great day!

Thank you for your response. Can VSG and Lapband absorb these proteins? I would assume the RNYand DS would hinder the absorption but shoudn't VSG and bands be able to absorb as well as body builders? I am going to have to do much more research.

I'm not sure. Being a RNY'er, I know that they're not suitable for me, but not sure about the band or the VSG....maybe you should post this on the lapband forum? Someone there should surely know the answer......You could also google amino acids absorption in VSG or lapband and see what comes up. There's hundreds of website on amino acids (protein). Sorry I couldn't be of more help!

Hi Kristin

The issue really isn't so much about absorption. The issue is that there really are not all of the Indispensable Amino Acids even available at all.

I think I have figured out how to get the original post to display in a more readable format:

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New Protein Quality Guidelines from ASMBS
Someone else posted this on another OH board, and it might be of interest here as well.

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Important New Protein Quality Guidelines from Surgeons

If you have been reading our updates, you know we have regularly advised that:

- whey protein ISOLATE is better than whey protein concentrate
- collagen-based products such as the test tube products get very low protein quality scores. Profect and New-Whey are calculated to have a PDCAAS of 5 or 6 out of a possible 100 (1).

Historically, we have perhaps been the only ones saying this.

Now the bariatric surgeons, dietitians, and nurses have just issued Protein Quality Guidelines, and everything they recommend is consistent with what we have said.

While many many products do not meet the guidelines, you should know that
for every single new guideline, UNJURY matches it 100%, fully, bull's eye, completely, exactly, and it always has.

While the full set of guidelines should become available on the web soon, here are some of the key messages from the guidelines (2).

1. It's not enough to know how much protein you are getting (how many grams). You also have to look at the amino acid profile to know about the QUALITY of the protein.
(Some proteins have almost zero value.)

2. The PDCAAS scoring is the superior way to rate protein quality (it looks at the levels of each indispensable amino acid).

3. Doctors, nurses and dietitians are advised to use Caution when recommending any type of collagen-based protein supplement (for example, the "test tube" products).
So you too should use Caution when using products with hydrolyzed collagen.

4. Whey protein *Isolate* is better than whey protein concentrate. (Concentrate has more lactose, and gives you less protein.)

5. Recommended daily grams of (high quality) protein: 70 grams per day during weight loss and low calorie diets.

The society issuing the guidelines is the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery (ASMBS), and almost certainly your surgeon, dietitian and nurse are members. The guidelines were announced Monday June 16, 2008 at the ASMBS annual meeting.

You can be sure that most of the products, those which don't fully meet the guidelines, will try to make it sound like they do, or will try to say the guidelines are not important.
But here are 2 easy rules to remember:

1: "Caution on Collagen"
(e.g. about 94% of the protein in the test tubes is collagen)

2: Whey Protein ISOLATE is better than Whey Protein Concentrate

Here are three key messages from the guidelines:

A. "The PDCAAS score indicates the overall quality of a protein."

B. "The PDCAAS score indicates the body's ability to use that product for protein synthesis." (Protein synthesis is necessary for making every cell in your body.)

C. You can lose lean body mass (for example muscle and organs including the heart) even if you get the right number of grams of protein, if the protein doesn't have each and every Indispensable Amino Acid IN THE RIGHT AMOUNT.

In other words, even if you used 3 of the "test tubes" every day, you can still lose muscle and organ tissue because the test tubes have a deficiency in indispensable amino acids. (1)

We hope this is helpful. If you have any questions, please do ask us. This is too important to your health.

Healthy regards

Jerome
UNJURY (R) Protein


1. We calculated the PDCAAS (amino acid scores) of Profect and New-Whey based on assays of samples we sent to Covance, Inc, a leading independent laboratory, in 2007. To our knowledge, they have never disagreed with our calculation of their PDCAAS scores.

2. Preprint. L. Aills et al. Bariatric Nutrition: Suggestions for the Surgical Weight Loss Patient. Surgery for Obesity and Related Diseases July/August Volume 4, Number 4S, 2008 ( Official Journal of the Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery)

After much more research I am slowly "getting it". I am just upset as I had just ordered a case of the bullets the day before- I would have saved my money for better protein.

A good company should be willing to take back unopened containers. We take back everything, including opened containers.

Jerome
UNJURY (R) Protein

Jerome -  Can you please provide a link to the ABMSA website with this information?  I've been searching and can't seem to find the publication. Thanks, Pam

Hi Pam

The paper we were drawing from was a preprint. I think they were facing a deadline to have everything ready for the meeting, which was last week.

It could be a little while for them to regroup after the meeting, and get this finalized.

If you RD or nurse was at the meeting, and attended either of the sessions on Nutrition on Monday, they might be able to help.

They were not even giving copies of the preprint to the general attendees of the annual meeting, only to the people who were registered for the session above.

Does that help a little?
Jerome
UNJURY (R) Protein

Thanks Jerome: I see that the nutritionist from MMPC here in Michigan is the person who presented one of the topics about protein at the meeting.  Maybe she'll have a copy of her presentation she could share with me.  For those interested, here is the link to the 76-page program that details the information and sessions covered at the ASMBS Annual Meeting.  There appears to be two different sessions that dealt with protein information.   One session is called "Protein Supplements: The Truth and Misconceptions" by Christine Becker is listed on page 42. http://www.asbs.org/Newsite07/annualmtg_courses/2008_prelim_ prog.pdf There was also a session held by Jeanne Blankenship called "Evaluating Nutritional Supplements: What to look for in Vitamins, Minerals and Protein" --- I'd be interested to get my hands on her presentation too.  (Check out page 40 for her session listing.) Pam